Parents Sandbagging

[jessifrostR]

I have been browsing the forum lately and picking up on things I have never heard of since my daughter is competing for the first time this year.
From seeing other people's comments and posts, I am kind of worried our high achieving gym does so well because they hold the girls back from what they are capable of. They have a great reputation.
My daughted just turned 8 and she is only competing level 1. She got a 38 AA at her first meet of the season. It was the 3rd highest score of the entire meet including 613 gymnasts of all ages and levels. I though it was great at first but after reading things here, I am thinking maybe she scored so well because she competing too far below her capabilities.
I know she has all the level 3 skills and some level 4 skills. She can do cartwheels on beam and round off backhandspring back tucks. She is pretty close to getting her kip.
Should I be concerned that her gym does this intentionally to get high scores and win meets?
She is happy just to be on team but now with evaluations coming up in a couple weeks I am wondering where she will be placed next season.

 

[jessifrostR]

Also, its not just my daughter. Her entire team is older level 1s. 7-9 years old. Another girl on her team scored the highest of the session at their 2nd meet. I feel like she would be in a higher level also because she has more advanced skills but I have no clue how these things are decided.

 

[Seeker]

It is a good thing to be aware of, especially since your dd isn’t super young and restricted from competing due to age. Most gyms don’t compete L1 at all, so it’s hard to compare, but it is good to get a competition season under her belt. See how it goes and what placement she gets for next season and then see where things stand. I’d hope she would be placed with L3 if she’s already got most of those skills and has nearly another year to get them all. It is somewhat odd to have a team of L1’s up to age 9, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re sandbagging either. Have you talked to any other moms about the standard progression at your gym? Do they usually do all levels?

 

[3rd_time_around]

It is a good thing to be aware of, especially since your dd isn’t super young and restricted from competing due to age. Most gyms don’t compete L1 at all, so it’s hard to compare, but it is good to get a competition season under her belt. See how it goes and what placement she gets for next season and then see where things stand. I’d hope she would be placed with L3 if she’s already got most of those skills and has nearly another year to get them all. It is somewhat odd to have a team of L1’s up to age 9, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re sandbagging either. Have you talked to any other moms about the standard progression at your gym? Do they usually do all levels?

Its not that unusual. Our level 1 team has ages 5-12. It depends on their ability. And of course older girls tend to score well in Level 1 because they have more body awareness, are more mature, understand what competition really means, and are generally more serious than a 5-6 year old ( not every one, just in general). If they do really well, like consistent 37-38, AND have the skills, they are often given the opportunity to move to level 3 instead of 2.

 

[LJL07]

If you don't mind me asking, what state do you live in?

 

[Seeker]

@GAgymmom - It IS very unusual where I live. Norms differ by state and region, so that must be considered, but just taking a quick look at mymeetscores does reveal that L1 session results are far fewer that L2+.

I’ve been a part of meet planning for several years and we can barely find meets that compete L2. I have never ever seen a meet with a L1 session. For us, it is generally considered a rec level with L2 serving as pre-team. We do have our L2’s compete a few meets so they have that experience, but it’s not a full season, usually 2 or 3 meets. Our L2 team is also a bit younger than the OP’s gym....all are 7 or under. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[reluctant]

@GAgymmom - It IS very unusual where I live. Norms differ by state and region, so that must be considered, but just taking a quick look at mymeetscores does reveal that L1 session results are far fewer that L2+.

I am also region 8 and we do compete L1 and L2. It is also not as if parents get to tell coaches that their child should be in level 3 instead of level 1. That would not go over well at any gym where I have been.

 

[LJL07]

If it's the state that I'm thinking it is (in region 8), there is really only one stable gym that produces a few level 10s in the state. That gym for some reason competes 8 year olds at level 1. They do all score 38s and 39s which I think is ludicrous and a waste of a year, but the gym then streams them to level 3 as 9/10 year olds, then level 4, and they compete level 5 before moving to 7. They do very well, but I don't see the point at all in level 1. The culture in this state is very slowly shifting to 6 year olds on level 3 and 7 year olds on level 4, but it's pointless without a gym with a strong optional program because the kids will then be maxed out early on. So I suppose that is the reasoning behind the very slow progression, and it's working for this particular gym. I can't even imagine how bored those 8 year olds must be though.

 

[reluctant]

If it's the state that I'm thinking it is (in region 8), there is really only one stable gym that produces a few level 10s in the state. That gym for some reason competes 8 year olds at level 1. They do all score 38s and 39s which I think is ludicrous and a waste of a year, but the gym then streams them to level 3 as 9/10 year olds, then level 4, and they compete level 5 before moving to 7. They do very well, but I don't see the point at all in level 1. The culture in this state is very slowly shifting to 6 year olds on level 3 and 7 year olds on level 4, but it's pointless without a gym with a strong optional program because the kids will then be maxed out early on. So I suppose that is the reasoning behind the very slow progression, and it's working for this particular gym. I can't even imagine how bored those 8 year olds must be though.

I don't know about the OP, but my state has multiple gyms that produce very successful level 10s. I can't explain why some gyms compete Level 1 and 2 and some do not. Of course I wish my daughter has started at level 3 instead of level 1, but she didn't. So now she's gotten two more years insane strength training and focus on form. I think she'll stick with gymnastics long term and make it to level 10. I have another gymnast so I know what it takes to get there. Getting a scholarship or becoming elite was never the goal.

 

[sevenatenine2]

We have older Level 2s as well, but we are a gym that doesn't screen because of age and we give older kids a chance. The Level 2s are all first year kids, but sometimes they range from 7-12. The 9 and ups usually do place extremely highly. It's just because once they "get it" they have a body awareness the younger kids just don't have. We have tried skipping L2 and starting them at L3, but they usually struggle there versus being very successful in 2. They just do one year there, and then will move up from there.

 

[LJL07]

I don't know about the OP, but my state has multiple gyms that produce very successful level 10s. I can't explain why some gyms compete Level 1 and 2 and some do not. Of course I wish my daughter has started at level 3 instead of level 1, but she didn't. So now she's gotten two more years insane strength training and focus on form. I think she'll stick with gymnastics long term and make it to level 10. I have another gymnast so I know what it takes to get there. Getting a scholarship or becoming elite was never the goal.

Unfortunately, no intense strength training or great basics is happening in this state. If that IS happening along side of level 1&2, I don't have a problem with level 1. I do have a problem with polishing level 1&2 routines to death for the sake of winning without doing the appropriate strength training because it really isn't a predictor at all of future gymnastics.

 

[reluctant]

Unfortunately, no intense strength training or great basics is happening in this state. If that IS happening along side of level 1&2, I don't have a problem with level 1. I do have a problem with polishing level 1&2 routines to death for the sake of winning without doing the appropriate strength training because it really isn't a predictor at all of future gymnastics.

I totally agree. Scoring well at lower levels isn't much of a predictor for anything.

 

[John]

If this were my DD situation, I would sit down and speak to her. Determine what it is she wanted from Gymnastics. Once it was determined what the Family goal was, I would pursue that goal doing what it takes to reach it. Meaning finding the correct gym and educating my child about what it takes to be successful. I feel at 9 I would need to know what the gym's plan was for my DD. If that plan did not match the Family goal I would quickly move on.

I know kids sometimes have extreme unattainable goals, but as a parent its not my job to crush dreams it's my job to educate on what it takes to fulfill them.

 

[jessifrostR]

Her goal is to reach level 10 JO and do college level gymnastics. She is obsessed with the LSU gymnastics team. I don't crush her goals but I don't see college gymnastics happening because I am realistic. But I do want her gym to challenge her to her potential. She is physically strong (she is constantly conditioning at home for fun and can do 20 leg lifts and 20 pull ups like its nothing) and she determined and is fearless. Her coaches have told me this from the beginning.
Her gym does have sucessful level 10's so maybe they have a method that works.
But I don't want them holding her back so they can score well at meets.

 

[jessifrostR]

If it's the state that I'm thinking it is (in region 8), there is really only one stable gym that produces a few level 10s in the state. That gym for some reason competes 8 year olds at level 1. They do all score 38s and 39s which I think is ludicrous and a waste of a year, but the gym then streams them to level 3 as 9/10 year olds, then level 4, and they compete level 5 before moving to 7. They do very well, but I don't see the point at all in level 1. The culture in this state is very slowly shifting to 6 year olds on level 3 and 7 year olds on level 4, but it's pointless without a gym with a strong optional program because the kids will then be maxed out early on. So I suppose that is the reasoning behind the very slow progression, and it's working for this particular gym. I can't even imagine how bored those 8 year olds must be though.

You sound like you know what gym we are lol. We do produce successful level 10s but it seems silly to have them compete such a simple routine when these girls are capable of level 3 skills! Maybe they really know what they're doing though..

 

[jessifrostR]

Its not that unusual. Our level 1 team has ages 5-12. It depends on their ability. And of course older girls tend to score well in Level 1 because they have more body awareness, are more mature, understand what competition really means, and are generally more serious than a 5-6 year old ( not every one, just in general). If they do really well, like consistent 37-38, AND have the skills, they are often given the opportunity to move to level 3 instead of 2.

Her gym puts girls in level 1 to start and then either moves them to excel or the JO team after that. She wants to do JO, and I am really hoping with the progress she has made this year they give the option to do level 3. She is bored of her routines but loves up training.

 

[stillhoping]

If she progresses at one level per year, she would be a first year level 10 at the age of 17, a high school junior if she's a second grader now or senior if she's a third grader now. It seems like she has the ability to progress through the lower levels faster than that. Does your gym tend to skip levels? Does your gym have a history of having gymnasts who move on to become collegiate gymnasts?

 

[jessifrostR]

If she progresses at one level per year, she would be a first year level 10 at the age of 17, a high school junior if she's a second grader now or senior if she's a third grader now. It seems like she has the ability to progress through the lower levels faster than that. Does your gym tend to skip levels? Does your gym have a history of having gymnasts who move on to become collegiate gymnasts?

They do have a history of some of their girls doing collegiate gymnastics. Not sure if they do a lot of skipping levels but I know one girl on our team has a sister who skipped level 6? I think..
Seems like it would make more sense to skip lower levels but what do I know..lol

 

[John]

Her goal is to reach level 10 JO and do college level gymnastics. She is obsessed with the LSU gymnastics team. I don't crush her goals but I don't see college gymnastics happening because I am realistic. But I do want her gym to challenge her to her potential. She is physically strong (she is constantly conditioning at home for fun and can do 20 leg lifts and 20 pull ups like its nothing) and she determined and is fearless. Her coaches have told me this from the beginning.
Her gym does have sucessful level 10's so maybe they have a method that works.
But I don't want them holding her back so they can score well at meets.

I am with you and agree kids should not be held back for a gyms benefit. It sounds like you have goals set, now you must determine if your current gym is the best place for her. What do you think?

For your reference, My DD is 10 she is competing Level 7. She is not yet a great gymnast, average at best. She is fearless and has some acquired many high-level skills, but She does not seem to care about the little things yet. It is her journey I do my best to keep her grounded and support her. I personally would not let my DD compete level 1 if she had skills for higher levels. I believe to be great you must challenge yourself train up and compete against the best.

 

[stillhoping]

They do have a history of some of their girls doing collegiate gymnastics. Not sure if they do a lot of skipping levels but I know one girl on our team has a sister who skipped level 6? I think..
Seems like it would make more sense to skip lower levels but what do I know..lol

If she's getting skills, she's happy, the gym seems like a positive environment, she's safe, and seems to have a future there, I wouldn't worry too much.