Parents Seeking parent advice

[MILgymFAM]

My ODD is a very sensitive soul. I will put that out front. There are good parts of that- she is sweet and empathic, but there are bad parts too. She lets things get to her and break her down a little bit, and they stay with her.

So anyway, once in each of the last two practices there was a girl in practice (different girl each day) who told my DD that she is too heavy. Too heavy to stretch with, and then too heavy to spot. The second time it made my DD cry, which is against gym rules. My DD told me the story tonight, mostly worried she would be in trouble when the HC finds out she cried in the gym. My DD is very thin- she has a 18.5 BMI- but she still takes it to heart when people say things like this to her. She is already self conscious in the gym. She's the oldest, tallest, least experienced, and newest in her group. She told the coach right away each time and the coach just said to the girls in question not to say stuff like that. Today, I approached the coach after practice about this situation, and she just said that my DD is taller than all the other girls. That was the sum of her explanation, which makes no sense to me. I also spoke to the HC/owner and was given a nutrition lesson, which I do not understand, and a promise to talk to the group. This is not the first time that girls have said things to my DD that prompted a group talking-to (suffice to say that she knows that in the eyes of her teammates, she really doesn't belong). My DD just sticks out like a sore thumb, and the welcome mat isn't going to be forthcoming any time soon.

So... Here is the thing. I want to make sure she isn't bullied. We move a lot. Shes always a new kid. She's gifted and doesn't fit in with her peers often enough. She's been called anorexic and a nerd and other things in the past. She's now homeschooled and people in our current base think that's weird. The gym should be a safe haven from all of that. At the same time I want to help her toughen her skin. Not all the way- I don't want her to lose the beautiful soul who she is, but enough that she isn't hurt so easily. I also want to try and work with the coaches the best I can, because I know this gym is my DDs only shot (for the time being) at JO. It's been a bumpy road to even get to this place, and I don't want ruin it. I also don't want to be the blind parent that lets a bad situation continue for (in hindsight) silly reasons. Right now, her passion, drive, and love of the sport don't seem like silly reasons.

My question is this. Where is the balance? Where, as a parent, do you get to the point that you say: I know you love gym with all your heart, but I can't allow you to be in a negative situation any longer. Even if it means no more team. Assuming either my DD is a bad fit for the gym culture, or the gym culture has pervasive problems (I'm not so arrogant as to decide which it is 100%), but this is IT in terms of gyms for her (for the next year or two), where is the line?

I appreciate any advice or anecdotes. A friend said to me this evening, how do I know this is the right place for her? The answer was that I don't, but there aren't other places, so I wanna make sure I stay mindful of the whole picture. This place is usually good for seeing all the angles. Thanks.

 

[sevenatenine2]

I will start by saying that as an athlete, I was very similar and am actually similarly minded to this day. I competed in a super supportive environment for the end of my career, but from the ages of 10-14 our HC/gym owner was a little rough and I still remember being on the receiving end of his wrath and the specific things he said to me. Then I had a beam/floor coach thay I adored, but once told me I looked like a Sumo wrestler doing a dance combo. I know (now) that she meant I wAs heavy on my feet and not fat, but I was mortified.

Also, as a coach I will say I try to avoid big height differences when assigning partner work. A kid 5'2 or so is very hard for a 4'7 kid to spot, esp if they are not stick thin. Only your daughter and her teammates know if the girls were being mean girls with catty comments (which would make me mad) or just saying they preferred to stretch with kids their size. I'd say by fifth grade or so there should be a filter. My athletes would ask for help from a coach before calling another kid big.

 

[MILgymFAM]

There is no one close in height. The coach told me she paired my DD with another girl for spotting because the other kids needed a coach there more than my DD. For stretching, she is with the girl closest in height. It's no match, but I would say they are very close in weight. One of the two meant to be mean and one probably didn't (my guess). Both girls (and all the girls who have said things) are within two years in age from my DD, who is a freshman in hs.

 

[Sasha]

From everything you have shared, it really sounds like your ODD loves gymnastics, is a very hard worker, and you have moved mountains to keep her doing what she loves and give her opportunities that are (sadly) increasingly fleeting due to her not being super young. There will always be mean girls/people, and there will always be messages about our body size/weight from a million different sources and angles. It would be a shame to retreat from her one opportunity because of the shortcomings of others (i.e., some meanness/insensitivity of 1-2 girls, a somewhat apathetic coach).

No easy task, but I suppose I'm more of the mind to try to thicken the skin over time - to insert oneself into environments that may repel you at first, rather than retreat away from potential clashing and sacrifice your own wants and needs.

I have a child who has started to be teased for his size, and will likely be more perpetually teased as he reaches middle and high school. I do the best I can to teach him to respond to negative comments with calm, inquisitive, matter-of-fact-style conversation - to face it head on, not by retreating. It might not always work, but I try to teach him to "hold open the doors" with other people, even when they are mean or insensitive, and perhaps some will come in eventually. And some are just mean and won't ever come in, but the idea is to set him up as the person in power - the one actively holding the door for others - to change the mindset from victim to owner in charge of his own "house" and who may come in. He also has the power to decide to close the door to anyone who has crossed the line too many times. I could go on, but you get the idea. Basically I can't protect him from all situations where he will be bullied, but I can give him tools, and try to put him in the proper mindset, so that the bullying doesn't take hold and chase him away from places and things he enjoys. At least that is the hope

If my daughter were getting these comments, I might teach her to respond with things like...

Girl: Ugh, you're so big and heavy! Why do you have to be my partner?
DD: Spotting me probably is challenging. I'm like a giant, right?
DD: Yep, all that muscle is super heavy. If it's really too hard for you, do you need to ask the coach to switch?
DD: I know! You're like a tiny butterfly compared to me. I need a bigger partner so I can actually build some muscle spotting you.
DD: Ok, Susie, I've heard you say that a few times now. I'm obviously taller and therefore heavier. I know that's hard for you. If you really don't want to work together, lets talk to the coach about it, because I want to train and I need a supportive partner.

Maybe she already responds in a supportive way, and just gets eye rolls or more hostility? But if she isn't responding at all and just letting the comments get under her skin, maybe it's time to amp up the skin-toughening?

I am so sorry she's running into this in her gym. I hope it is just 1-2 girls, and they can come around or she can learn to tolerate their insensitivities. I would hate to see her chased away.

 

[B.Gold]

I've always admired, from your posts, your strong commitment to your family. There's no doubt your home is a safe place to land for both your children. I imagine for your husband too because you sound like a rock!! And I'm sure that's what has helped your ODD have the self esteem to continue going to a place where she doesn't yet feel included.

I read, in a book about raising girls during adolescence, that finding our girls as much community where they feel they belong is essential. And I remember from my upbringing how important those experiences were to me. Since she is home schooled, and struggling with her gym community, is there maybe the possibility of finding time for other groups she could join? A youth group, choir or club? Or maybe a homeschooling group? I know with my ODD her involvement in several groups; a sports team, 2 choirs, a youth group (we don't belong to any organized religion, she found the church on her own), a school club, has been key to her adolescence happiness. What this involvement has meant to her is, when one group of girls suck, and you know girls, inevitability they do, another group picks her up. It's also given her the opportunity to hang with boys who can be more accepting than the girls.

I know with gym, and your busy schedule, this would be challenging. But it just may be the boost to keep her going in the sport she loves. I hope this irons out for her because I know how important gym is to her and the sacrifices you make to keep it going.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

What Sahsa and B. Gold said.

You can't change the world, only your self.

You can't insulate them from everything and everyone. Eventually they need to go out into the world and take care of themselves, and deal with things like this.

So with that in mind. Teach her to problem solve and how to answer.

Broaden her social world so all her eggs are not in one basket. She needs more then gym. Activities where size, strength is not so important. Places that are less competitive or competive in a different way. And she can make friends and acquaintances on a different level then the physical. A book club, art program, music, Girl Scouts, computer coding class. So a bad experience is not her whole world.

I love the book Little Girls Can Be Mean. It's for us grownups, to understand relational aggression and help our girls deal with it.

Girls are excellent at being bullies and being hard to catch. Should grown ups be aware? Of course and they aren't always. We have to help our kids help themselves. We can not shield them forever. You can't wait "until they are old enough" to deal. You have give them the skills to deal and it is never too young to start. And you need to start ideally before the problems. But now is always a good time.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Thank you for the advice everyone! A lot of it is what I think I already knew- I will need to toughen her up some, and she needs something outside of gym.

The first is a work in progress. Unfortunately it's more than 1-2 girls (that was just these comments) and the behaviors are bad/blatant enough that they were originally noticed by a coach and brought up to me (when she first started this gym). Usually my DD is very good with either graceful or witty comebacks, with a smile, so her breaking down and crying over a comment is what signaled me that it's starting to wear her down.

The second- that she needs something else- is something I have been working on since we moved here. Before we moved north, she had cheerleading and after school clubs and neighborhood friends. She had a whole world. Once we moved, it's been hard. Cheer is different here- a whole other animal. Band didn't fit our schedule, and she had no school friends at all after the whole first year, which is what made the decision to homeschool easier. She really didn't fit in at her school, except with the teachers.

I recently signed them up for 4H, which starts next week, but it's been a challenge already finding projects they can join due to schedule. Heck, I've been trying to find dance classes (their first love) that I could squeeze in for six months. Between ODDs 18 hours and YDDs 8, it's been hard to find where I can put extras. The home school community, as I have found so far, is made up of younger kids and very spread out. I have reached out to the Facebook social group for our base housing to get some meet ups going, since we are new, but as soon as people find out she doesn't go to the hs, they stop answering. I am trying.

The saving grace here, so far, is that once she makes friends, my ODD keeps them for life. She regularly communicates with her BFF from kindergarten, which was three states and many moves ago. We have a friend coming to visit from SoCal for thanksgiving. She has flown back to NY for visits, and she skypes Florida/Georgia/Italy/Puerto Rico nearly daily to "see" her friends.

Anyway, thanks again!!!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

. Unfortunately it's more than 1-2 girls (that was just these comments) and the behaviors are bad/blatant enough that they were originally noticed by a coach and brought up to me. Usually my DD is very good with either graceful or witty comeback with a smile, so her breaking down and crying over a comment is what signaled me that it's starting to wear her down.

Sounds like the girls have learned, not to get caught by the grown ups.

They are incredibly sneaky at being mean.

 

[twinmomma]

This kind of stuff breaks my heart. And I know with as many hours as these kids spend in the gym, it's hard to avoid some of the snippiness that comes with being in each other's space all the time. That said, this sounds like more than that to me, and maybe it's just because I'm on high alert with my daughter, who's own family situation became a front and center discussion last week at gym (we are a two-mom family). Here's the thing, if you are in an area where you have multiple gym options, even if they require significant driving, if you are able to somehow make it work, do it. Sure, do you need to teach your kid to let things slide sometimes? Yes. Do our kids need to learn not everything that is directed at them is really about them? Absolutely. But this is 18 hours of her week. Take a hard look at yourself as an adult. Could you put up with a hostile work environment 18 hours a week? I've been in a hostile environment the last 9 months, and I haven't had to deal with the offending person nearly that many hours a week, and I was done.

I know we want to toughen up our kids and give them more tools to deal with jerks, because they're everywhere. But putting her in the path of the jerks to do it on a constant basis seems a little to me like not the most emotionally healthy way to do it.

 

[Sasha]

Unfortunately it's more than 1-2 girls (that was just these comments) and the behaviors are bad/blatant enough that they were originally noticed by a coach and brought up to me (when she first started this gym). Usually my DD is very good with either graceful or witty comebacks, with a smile, so her breaking down and crying over a comment is what signaled me that it's starting to wear her down.

Ah, so she has been trying but hitting a wall with at least a couple girls then. That's a rough place to be.

Are there not at least some kind girls in the group? It's hard to think the whole group of girls is rotten...? I understand the group as a whole are a bit younger that your DD, though, so relying on the good ones to stand up to the bad may be less of a workable strategy...

Her being older than the group, and having a more mature/academic/geeky (not a bad thing!) personality, it might be the case that any amount of forced 'bonding' with her gym team-mates is just not going to go anywhere deep. That's ok, and hopefully your ongoing work finding her another place for 'besties' will succeed. At the same time, if girls are actively making fun of her, and it isn't stopping with her repeatedly facing it head on in a constructive way, and coach is apathetic/clueless, then she's at the point where she herself needs to decide if she loves the activity more than she dislikes the company.

And if the remarks do continue or worsen despite her attempts to deflect and educate, then this really is ongoing bullying, and another appeal to the coach (or another coach/HC/owner...?) seems in order as an effort before talks of pulling her out. Perhaps the coach sees her as older, more mature, and so should be able to handle careless chatter from the younger ones on her own and not to take them so personally. I think adults are quicker to dismiss 'bullying' if it's happening to an older, competent child (rather than a big kid bullying a little or weaker kid, which gets more sympathy). But if your DD has tried and failed, coach needs to be schooled in what is going on and made to address it more pointedly. As I do agree with the other posters that if this really is a 'hostile work' type situation that she is unable to resolve, and the coach is unwilling to resolve after more pressure, then it might not be a place you want to put up with and getting out may be exactly the right thing. I just think that should be a last resort.

 

[Ali'sMom]

I have no words of wisdom or advice, just lots of hugs & supports.
I moved a bit growing up (to NJ in 2nd grade, to New Orleans in 7th grade (total culture shock), to NJ in 10th grade, Syracuse in 11th grade, and back to NJ in 12th grade). The move at 12 years old to New Orleans was horrible for me, I was "nothing" like the kids there. By the time I finally fit in, we moved again... My junior year I fit in like a puzzle piece from day one. So I've seen both sides. I know just how hard it is when you're someone who likes to be liked, and who likes people,,,, and when it's not reciprocal.

It's such a fine line to get her able to blow these things off, but not lose her softness

I so hope you find a happy medium!!!!

 

[MILgymFAM]

Are there not at least some kind girls in the group? It's hard to think the whole group of girls is rotten...? I understand the group as a whole are a bit younger that your DD, though, so relying on the good ones to stand up to the bad may be less of a workable strategy...

At the same time, if girls are actively making fun of her, and it isn't stopping with her repeatedly facing it head on in a constructive way, and coach is apathetic/clueless, then she's at the point where she herself needs to decide if she loves the activity more than she dislikes the company.

Perhaps the coach sees her as older, more mature, and so should be able to handle careless chatter from the younger ones on her own and not to take them so personally. I think adults are quicker to dismiss 'bullying' if it's happening to an older, competent child (rather than a big kid bullying a little or weaker kid, which gets more sympathy).

As I do agree with the other posters that if this really is a 'hostile work' type situation that she is unable to resolve, and the coach is unwilling to resolve after more pressure, then it might not be a place you want to put up with and getting out may be exactly the right thing. I just think that should be a last resort.

There are some very nice girls in the gym, who go out of their way to talk to or give a hug to (my DD is a big hugger, lol) her, but they are all optionals and only work out with her two hours a week. They are all her age though, so there may be something there. I had assumed that 2/3 years age difference was no big deal, but maybe it's a wider divide than I realized. The workout group is small, about seven girls, and although a few are nice to her generally, there is a group think that takes over when one starts being mean.

I don't imagine she would ever get to the point where she would decide it's not worth it, barring serious physical injury. That's why I need to be aware of things so I can discuss the need for change, should it arise.

I agree with this third point. Her coach was asking her multiple times a day how old she is. I realized in a recent conversation with him that he was saying it because (in reference to) he thought she had been in gymnastics for so many years that she should have some corrections down. In our conversation when he realized that the corrections were for skills she is actually learning for the first time, he was taken aback and has taken in privates to calling her newborn instead. I think there are misconceptions that come with her age.

Getting out is definitely the last resort. I had to try every gym in the area (and it's a BIG area) to find one that would let her have a real go at this, so I would definitely try to make it work with all my will, and I am certain my DD will as well.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I have no words of wisdom or advice, just lots of hugs & supports.
I moved a bit growing up (to NJ in 2nd grade, to New Orleans in 7th grade (total culture shock), to NJ in 10th grade, Syracuse in 11th grade, and back to NJ in 12th grade). The move at 12 years old to New Orleans was horrible for me, I was "nothing" like the kids there. By the time I finally fit in, we moved again... My junior year I fit in like a puzzle piece from day one. So I've seen both sides. I know just how hard it is when you're someone who likes to be liked, and who likes people,,,, and when it's not reciprocal.

It's such a fine line to get her able to blow these things off, but not lose her softness

I so hope you find a happy medium!!!!

Thank you for understanding so well! You said my feelings perfectly. Despite my hubby's opinions on the matter, it would break my heart for my girls to lose their "softness". It's a hard world, I know, but it's the soft people who cushion it for the rest of us.

 

[Ali'sMom]

Thank you for understanding so well! You said my feelings perfectly. Despite my hubby's opinions on the matter, it would break my heart for my girls to lose their "softness". It's a hard world, I know, but it's the soft people who cushion it for the rest of us.

And I have the same kind of daughter. Upon her being told how great it was that she was doing something for friend, she turned to me a few minutes later utterly confused, with "Mom, why wouldn't any person go out of their way to help a friend?" And that moment was when I realized that one day she will learn that not every friend is that way. And it broke my heart. (She's 7th grade, about to be 13)

 

[twinmomma]

And I have the same kind of daughter. Upon her being told how great it was that she was doing something for friend, she turned to me a few minutes later utterly confused, with "Mom, why wouldn't any person go out of their way to help a friend?" And that moment was when I realized that one day she will learn that not every friend is that way. And it broke my heart. (She's 7th grade, about to be 13)

This. DD did a BIG BIG thing the other day in gym in terms of standing up for someone to someone she considers a friend. And I told her what a huge deal it was for the person she stood up for, and she sort of cocked her head to the side and looked at me and I could tell she didn't understand why it was such a big deal. I just hope she always sees it that way.

 

[MaryA]

One of my DD's (also a freshman) sounds a lot like your daughter... Sensitive, slow to make friends, somewhat of an introvert. I have often thanked my lucky stars that she is not my gymnast. I think the sport would just be too hard on her. I think she has only stayed with dance for as long as she has because she takes dance at a small studio in our neighborhood. She's a lovely dancer and I've often wondered "what if" we had sent her to the serious ballet studio the next town over, but in my heart, I know she's where she needs to be.

I know it's hard to consider pulling the plug on an activity that your DD feels passionate about, especially since she is getting old enough to make many of her own decisions. But since the other replies seem to be directed towards keeping your daughter in gymnastics, I thought I'd address your "how do I know when/if to pull the plug" question. I don't know the answer and I don't know what I would do in your situation, but I do think it's worth considering.

If your daughter truly has no friends (or at least a friend-ish) in her gym... well, that's got to be rough for 18 hours a week. It doesn't sound like a very good environment for her. You said this is her only option for JO. Are there other paths available nearby? Maybe there's an Xcel or USAIGC group with a bunch of great high school girls? Or if not, she's likely to excel at other sports and her height is likely to be an asset. Are there other club sports she could try? And if she cut back her gym hours, maybe the "carrot" could be some really cool 4H project. Could she keep chickens or some similar cool creature where you live?

Maybe, if she is willing (though I know my DD would be resistant) to talk to a counselor, maybe he/she would be able to give better feedback on whether or not the situation she is in is actually doing long-term damage to her or if it's just helping her "toughen up."

Parenting doesn't really get easier as they get older, does it? Sure, we can go out to dinner without having to find a babysitter, but the problems arent solved with a kiss and a bandaid anymore either. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

[MILgymFAM]

One of my DD's (also a freshman) sounds a lot like your daughter... Sensitive, slow to make friends, somewhat of an introvert. I have often thanked my lucky stars that she is not my gymnast. I think the sport would just be too hard on her. I think she has only stayed with dance for as long as she has because she takes dance at a small studio in our neighborhood. She's a lovely dancer and I've often wondered "what if" we had sent her to the serious ballet studio the next town over, but in my heart, I know she's where she needs to be.

I know it's hard to consider pulling the plug on an activity that your DD feels passionate about, especially since she is getting old enough to make many of her own decisions. But since the other replies seem to be directed towards keeping your daughter in gymnastics, I thought I'd address your "how do I know when/if to pull the plug" question. I don't know the answer and I don't know what I would do in your situation, but I do think it's worth considering.

If your daughter truly has no friends (or at least a friend-ish) in her gym... well, that's got to be rough for 18 hours a week. It doesn't sound like a very good environment for her. You said this is her only option for JO. Are there other paths available nearby? Maybe there's an Xcel or USAIGC group with a bunch of great high school girls? Or if not, she's likely to excel at other sports and her height is likely to be an asset. Are there other club sports she could try? And if she cut back her gym hours, maybe the "carrot" could be some really cool 4H project. Could she keep chickens or some similar cool creature where you live?

Maybe, if she is willing (though I know my DD would be resistant) to talk to a counselor, maybe he/she would be able to give better feedback on whether or not the situation she is in is actually doing long-term damage to her or if it's just helping her "toughen up."

Parenting doesn't really get easier as they get older, does it? Sure, we can go out to dinner without having to find a babysitter, but the problems arent solved with a kiss and a bandaid anymore either. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Thank you for addressing that portion of my question. My DD (well this one, anyway) is an extrovert. She would love to be with friends in all of her free time, and has been in the past. There are tons of gyms nearby, comparatively. She did xcel at first, but a more rec option (that's what it is here) really wasn't meeting her needs. There is no usaigc or YMCA gymnastics here. I feel like the crazy mom fighting a square peg into a round hole, to be honest. Her xcel team was all really nice girls. She still stays in contact and gets together with them, but they live a good bit away (with the ever present traffic) so it's not regular get togethers. She has tried swimming, soccer, basketball, track, and cheer in the past. She really has no interest in other sports (besides dance, but gym completely eclipsed that love). She doesn't act or sing. She does play an instrument, a little, but it's more a curiosity thing (I wonder if I can learn to play songs on this thing?) than a passion. She could take or leave the 4h projects. She is really just hoping to meet other kids her age there, and is open to trying whatever we can squeeze in. She does get to do all kinds of cool academic things already, but they usually involve going away and doing them with people who aren't local. We cannot add gardens or raise animals (we live in military housing). Those are all excellent suggestions though, and I am sure if it comes to a point of having to force the issue, she will find something else to occupy her time. There are a million activities out there waiting to be discovered.

 

[twinmomma]

Do I recall correctly that you were struggling to find a gym that would take your ODD in a JO program because of her age in your area? I don't remember if she ended up competing Xcel or JO 4/5, but I do know that having competed against gyms from your part of the state, it's a whole different vibe. Is it possible that some of these girls see your DD as somewhat of a threat? The new girl who comes in and does well and isn't like all the other girls (age/height)? I'm not excusing the behavior, just more trying to understand what might be motivating the teasing/bullying behavior and maybe look for ways to address it. I swear it makes me just want to grab your DD and bring her to my DD's training group, where DD is the shortest at 4'1" and the tallest is my height at 5'6" and their ages are 9-13 and nobody cares. This is supposed to be fun for them dammit!

 

[MILgymFAM]

Do I recall correctly that you were struggling to find a gym that would take your ODD in a JO program because of her age in your area? I don't remember if she ended up competing Xcel or JO 4/5, but I do know that having competed against gyms from your part of the state, it's a whole different vibe. Is it possible that some of these girls see your DD as somewhat of a threat? The new girl who comes in and does well and isn't like all the other girls (age/height)? I'm not excusing the behavior, just more trying to understand what might be motivating the teasing/bullying behavior and maybe look for ways to address it. I swear it makes me just want to grab your DD and bring her to my DD's training group, where DD is the shortest at 4'1" and the tallest is my height at 5'6" and their ages are 9-13 and nobody cares. This is supposed to be fun for them dammit!

You recall correctly. She competed xcel bronze, then xcel gold, and now trains JO. She still doesn't have an official level assignment (that's a different issue), but she trains with the L5s most of the time, and the L6s one day a week. It is surely a different vibe than what they started with before we moved. I don't think they should see her as a threat. I have never been anything but honest, in that my DD isn't the best gymnast in any group she's ever been in. She tries really hard, but none of it comes naturally. The girls spend a lot of time pointing out all the things she does wrong. Who knows though, it could be a part of it. Even without being a star, it could be threatening that she's new to the sport and jumping into what they have been doing for a long time. I'm glad your DD has such a great group of girls!

 

[twinmomma]

Oh trust me, we have our issues. Age just isnt' one of them. It's interesting to me you say they point out what she does wrong. I would think the coach would be all over that. As in "it's the coach's job to coach, it's your job to work" sort of thing.

I wonder if the fact that she gets to train with the L6s makes the L5 girls jealous? Dangit I don't know. I just want them to be nice to her.