Parents Should we consider switching gyms?

[suebee]

Dd is 5 and on the competitive level 1 team at her gym. Her gym competes level 1 and 2, and this is the track at her gym to the higher levels. The only other way to get to the higher levels at her gym is to come in from another gym's team. The rec classes at her gym are very low level (kids who cannot do pullovers or back hip circles). Girls who are able to do those things are all on either Xcel or JO team or pre-team.

Her gym has a very good reputation in our area at the optional levels. In fact, her gym is probably one that many optional gymnasts want to be at. They don't seem to be as strong at the compulsory levels, but are still fairly good.

We ended up at this gym more or less by accident. Last year, dd's friend was signing up for a rec class there because her parents are friends with the owners/HCs of the gym, so we decided to sign up dd as well. The gym is about 20-25 minutes away with no traffic, like during the middle of the day when she had her preschool rec classes, but is 45 min - 1hr away during rush hour. Dd was asked to join pre-team a few months into rec. At this gym, there are 2 tracks for pre-team. The younger girls are tracked into pre-team for JO Level 1 and the older girls are tracked into pre-team for Xcel Bronze.

Dd is having a fine time at gym and wants to continue. The things I have concerns about are the following:

1. Coach:gymnast ratio. Dd's team is huge with almost 30 girls in level 1. There are 2 groups within level 1 so at each practice there are 12-15 girls between the ages of 5-8. About 50% of the time, there are 2 coaches at practice, but the other half of the time, there is just 1 coach. What this means is that there is a lot of time standing in line for the girls for vault and not a lot of attention or corrections during the other apparatuses because it's almost impossible for one coach to keep a close eye on that many young girls. In addition, my dd is shy and not aggressive, so she struggles with other girls cutting her in line and as a result, dd getting fewer turns than the other girls. I've talked to dd about being more assertive, but it's not her natural personality and while she's working on it, it is not easy for her.

2. Convenience: The time it takes to get to the gym during the after school hours is a lot given the traffic. Next year, I expect her practices to be early evening, based on this year's schedule, and while this would be better in terms of driving time, it also would require pushing back dd's bed time by more than 1.5 hours. She has an earlier bed time than most of her peers because she needs a lot of sleep and also naturally wakes up early. I don't know how she would handle the sleep changes.

3. Gym style: At least at the lower levels, the philosophy seems to be to just try new skills many times until you can get them. I do not see progression drills. For example, they're working on standing BHS. The coach spots them doing BHS. I've seen drills for BHS on you tube and I don't know whether most gyms use drills or not, but I think my dd would do better with drills. She has on occasion expressed frustration at not picking up skills as quickly as some of the other girls and I think that is because this style may work better for them but not as great for my dd.

4. CGMs: Because this gym has a really good reputation at the higher levels, I suspect that many of the parents of kids on dd's team picked this gym intentionally because they have aspirations of baving a great gymnast some day, whereas dd kind of ended up at this gym and on team by accident. The moms make excuses if their children don't do well at a meet, and have their kids practice at home, and tell them all the tjings they did weong at practice or during a meet. I can see that some if the girls already put so much pressure in themselves and get angry at themselves for a mistake at a meet or if they do not medal, etc. Dd is one of the youngest on the team at 5 and really doesn't care about medaling. She just wants to have fun, and she is having fun. At this level and age, I think that's most appropriate, but I'm afraid that some of the other girls' attitudes will run off on her.

Are these reasons to consider other gyms? I have no idea whether dd will want to do gym long-term. If I knew she would, I would probably have her stay at her current gym because they are so good at the optional levels. From looking at mymeetscores, it looks like many of the optional gymnasts have been with the team since the compulsory levels, but a decent number seem to have made the switch from other gyms.

 

[bogwoppit]

The group size alone would make me change. 30 kids for one coach is just too much. 30 kids with two very organised coaches can work, but those coaches need to be setting up lots of stations and be spotting at one of them.

 

[suebee]

The group size alone would make me change. 30 kids for one coach is just too much. 30 kids with two very organised coaches can work, but those coaches need to be setting up lots of stations and be spotting at one of them.

Sorry my above rambling was not clear. There are almost 30 girls on the level 1 team, but they're divided into 2 practice groups. There are only 12-15 girls at a practice with 1 coach about 50% of the time and 2 coaches about 50% of the time. The coach who is only there sometimes seems quite young and inexperienced.

 

[bogwoppit]

A great coach can manage large groups well with stations, but if the coach is inexperienced or disorganised kids can just end up standing and waiting. Let alone the skipping turns due to kids pushing in line etc.

What are your other options in the area.

I have to say I am not a fan of competing L1 and L2, I look at them more as developmental levels.

 

[suebee]

I really would prefer not to compete L1 and 2 also, for a variety of reasons. It seemed that last year, almost all the gyms around here competed Level 2, but when the levels changed over the summer, it seems that most of those gyms decided not to compete Level 1 but to compete Level 2, so I think all the gyms we would consider compete L2.

It seems like most of the gyms around here do Xcel and few are competitive in JO. Dd's current gym is one of them. There is one other gym that also seems to be competitive in JO. It is also 20-25 minutes away, but in a direction that doesn't have traffic during rush hour, so that is good. It also looks like their L2s, at least this year, practice in the after school times which would be better for us. I don't know anything about their gym philosophy though. From looking at mymeetscores, it seems this gym does well in the compulsory levels but not as well in the optional levels. Their optional team is much smaller than the compulsory team.

What is a good coach to gymnast ratio at these lower levels?

 

[iwannacoach]

I really would prefer not to compete L1 and 2 also, for a variety of reasons. It seemed that last year, almost all the gyms around here competed Level 2, but when the levels changed over the summer, it seems that most of those gyms decided not to compete Level 1 but to compete Level 2, so I think all the gyms we would consider compete L2.

It seems like most of the gyms around here do Xcel and few are competitive in JO. Dd's current gym is one of them. There is one other gym that also seems to be competitive in JO. It is also 20-25 minutes away, but in a direction that doesn't have traffic during rush hour, so that is good. It also looks like their L2s, at least this year, practice in the after school times which would be better for us. I don't know anything about their gym philosophy though. From looking at mymeetscores, it seems this gym does well in the compulsory levels but not as well in the optional levels. Their optional team is much smaller than the compulsory team.

What is a good coach to gymnast ratio at these lower levels?

The other gym you mentioned may have a plan that doesn't include building a strong optional program. It's not that uncommon to find a gym that has great compulsory teams because it's fairly easy to commit the equipment and staff capable of putting together a team capable of winning. It takes a lot more to put together an optional group with hopes of competing well, as they need to be in smaller groups and have more able coaches.

In a common small scale gym you might find two one vault, 3-4 high beams plus low beams, 2 sets of bars and 1-2 single bars, a floor exercise mat, and maybe a tumble track. That's enough equipment for 40 to 48 compulsory kids, 4 coaches, and work a typical 12 hour weekly training schedule. An optional program using that same set up would be well off with 24-28 kids, four coaches, and stretched pretty thin with 32 kids and 4 coaches, and work a typical 18 hour weekly training schedule. These numbers would give the kids in either group a fair chance being on par with their peers from other "normal" gyms.

So it's no wonder the gym with the better compulsory program has less to show for it's optional program, as they are geared up to make that work. The optional kids are possibly the few that stick around long enough to make it to l7 and l8.

You may think that the best choice is to move over to the "compulsory gym" for a few years until your dd is ready for optionals, but it doesn't work that way in reality. Look again at mymeetscores.com with an eye to the ages of the kids from each program, and the number of years it takes to go from l3 to l5. If you see the average age of one compulsory program is 11, and the other program is 9, the competitive advantage should be with group averaging 11 years of age. The same may be seen with the length of time the kids in each program spend a level 4. Some gyms average 1.25 years while others average 2.0 years.

It becomes a matter of education, perception, and what you feel your child needs in order to be happy 10 years down the road.

 

[Sasha]

Just a parent here of a new L3, but I'll chime in since I've had similar thoughts soon after starting...

Btw, I'm also not a fan of competing L1 or L2. I'd personally rather my DD work on skills instead of routines at this stage, but I get the fun of competing early, too. So sounds like you're OK with that and doesn't need to factor in to this particular switching decision.

12-15 girls with 1 or 2 coaches sounds fairly reasonable to me. I wouldn't leave because of that ratio alone.

OMG, my quiet, serious and non-assertive DD is your DD's twin about letting girls cut in front of her in line!! My inner CGM has roared on multiple occasions watching her miss turn after turn as the months went by!! I did encourage her that remembering and sticking to her place in line is part of being responsible, and it sorta worked sometimes, but there were always those 1 or 2 less mature, more pushy (not mean but aggressive) girls that still ran around and cut in line - aaaaahhhhhh it drove me crazy. Why don't coaches ever notice this????? Ok, done venting on that one ;-). Good news is now that she has moved up to L3, there is much more order, the girls have matured, and the 2 that always cut in line, well, they 'didn't make the cut' (d'oh!), and aren't in her group any more. So maybe this will pass for you, too. A gym change probably won't help that.

Vault is always a long line. So are bars for us. Sometimes they put more effort into having enough stations, but there is still "bunch up" right before the spotted station. Early on I was feeling very fed up and wanted to gym shop, too, but I think this is just the way gymnastics is much of the time since I've found CB and read a lot of commentary. I wish our coaches were more consistent about noticing the 'bunch up' and making them repeat stations instead of waiting, do a skill twice at the stations, something! So the other gym may or may not really help with that either.

The drills/progressions thing might be a reason to inspect elsewhere, maybe. Our gym does a lot of progressions, however, I have noticed that with the littler/younger kids, they do a lot more just plain old spotting the full skill while they are little instead of as many progressions. I am guessing because they can be physically manipulated (picked up, thrown around) easier than a bigger kid. Maybe they are hoping it will click as early as possible while they are small and form can come as they mature (??). Don't know for sure. But I have noticed this discrepancy in tactics between the younger and older groups of the same level (that's how ours were/are divided). Lots of progressions at L3 and above, though. If your L3-L5s aren't doing any progressions, then I don't know how they actually progress at all (??).

Seems like checking out the other gym is a good place to start, and see what vibe you get, but most of your concerns don't seem that out of the ordinary from this 1st year parent Good luck and hope you feel good about whatever you decide!

 

[gymdog]

I don't think 12 is a big group, but if all they do is spot the skills then I can see how it would seem that way. I either make 12 or 6 stations and they have to stay at their station and repeat the exercise until I say to rotate. I will say they sometimes complain about certain exercises this way because they have to repeat hard ones, but if I let them just go from station to station they just run through it. Or if they can't "figure it out" they don't have enough sustained repetitions to get it. I rarely let them go station to stations because my kids for the love of Pete will not stay back from the bar/beam/track/whatever and both distract my spotting and teaching and almost get kicked in the face every time. I'd rather they roll around on the floor in some other defined area if they're gonna do that.

A station for me can be as simple as putting a jump rope or a ball or foam down somewhere on the floor and giving them a basic exercise to do with it. A rotation is 1-3 minutes for level 1-3. Level 1 I usually just give them each a space or prop or mat and go through the exercises one by one all together (not enough practice time to set up and demonstrate).

The best compromise is having them rotate in pairs, but if I think they need particular work or are not getting enough done I'll just add conditioning and flexibility stations until they're in singles (like coming close to a meet). Some kids don't work as hard as they could but there's nothing I can do about that and this eliminates a lot of my problems. If someone doesn't work well as a partner they lose partner privileges (cutting etc) and have to do everything themselves even if we get to do partners. This is usually fine since they usually don't care about having a partner. The kids who like to correct/help each other improve get to work with a partner.

 

[LJL07]

Not an expert, but I like what the above poster says about keeping the kids busy with the stations.

We were at a gym with a larger lower level compulsory group, and it was not working for my 6 year old daughter. That gym also just ran the level 1 routines over and over again with no up training, no stations, and no drills/progressions. So, the kids would run the bar routine or the vault, get verbal feedback (which didn't seem to register with these little kids), and go to the back of the line to stand around and wait/get bored/get distracted/act silly. If anything, my child was looking sloppier as the year progressed, not better. Switched to a new gym, and the group is smaller, but more importantly, they keep these kids busy, busy. Yes, they run the routines, but they have stations like described above and break up the routines with drills too. It is making a HUGE difference in my daughter's interest level and her form. She looks much better in just over a month's time.

 

[gymmomtoo]

Is your daughter progressing well, even if the coaching style doesn't quite match her style right now? And does she like her coaches (and do you like them as well)? If so, then I wouldn't move--you'll find some CGMs everywhere and the coach to gymnast ratio isn't bad.