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Some clarification on English Champs qualification scores

Learning Parent GB

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I found this FAQ on the BG website today.

I found these two interesting. Having in mind the case of an OOA level 2 gymnast. Her regional event was not a qualifier to a national event, but I think would be okay.

Q4. If a gymnast will be an Espoir in 2020, but are Compulsory Level 2 (2008 born) currently, they will not have done any FIG events in 2019 to gain the qualifying score of 38.0. Is there any way they could compete at this Championships? A: The organisers have not specified that the qualifying competitions need to be FIG competitions, purely that a score of 38.0 has been achieved at a National or Regional Event. National events are, in principle, those run by British Gymnastics and Regional events are those run by individual Regions – usually as a qualifier to a National event. The organisers won’t accept random events run by individual clubs (ie Sandra Clarke Cup).

Q7. Will the organisers accept scores from the English WAG Bronze, Silver & Gold Championships in 2019? A: They will accept scores from the Gold category of this event but have stipulated that the minimum score in this situation would have to be 42.0 (rather than 38.0), but not from the Bronze or Silver unfortunately.
 

Jenny

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Q4 is still ambiguous to me.

So will they accept a 38 in a regional out of age level 4 competition for example? They say it doesn't have to be fig but don't say what minimum level it must be...... would out of age 2, 3 or 4 count. Just needs clarifying.

I think reading it carefully they will accept national events which are either FIG or in age. So this years in age vol 2 at regional or national level for espoirs will count.

I think they are looking for scores from British Teams, Last years English etc etc really as well as the British and Challenge. All at fig level.

I just read they will accept compulsory 1 scores from the previous year so that is useful.

I can see a need for it. I think this first year just needs ironing out a bit.
 

Learning Parent GB

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Q4 is still ambiguous to me.

So will they accept a 38 in a regional out of age level 4 competition for example? They say it doesn't have to be fig but don't say what minimum level it must be...... would out of age 2, 3 or 4 count. Just needs clarifying.

I think reading it carefully they will accept national events which are either FIG or in age. So this years in age vol 2 at regional or national level for espoirs will count.

I think they are looking for scores from British Teams, Last years English etc etc really as well as the British and Challenge. All at fig level.

I just read they will accept compulsory 1 scores from the previous year so that is useful.

I can see a need for it. I think this first year just needs ironing out a bit.
Yes, I was still a little confused. We'll find out soon enough as entries are now open I believe.
 
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GymBeamRisky

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So it looks as though they will be accepting the compulsory level 1 grade pass mark. I wonder if they will be accepting the National level 2 grade pass plus position attained in the national final. Of course no such thing as an “in age” national grade here , but irrelevant at espoir level since 11-12 age restrictions apply. Things still seem to be about as clear as mud from a parents perspective. Shame really ,with a little forethought and basic organisation British/English Gymnastics could have avoided this totally avoidable 11th hour stressful mess. Let us all hope our individual Gymnastics clubs have been kept in the “loop” and better informed.
 

Jenny

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So it looks as though they will be accepting the compulsory level 1 grade pass mark. I wonder if they will be accepting the National level 2 grade pass plus position attained in the national final. Of course no such thing as an “in age” national grade here , but irrelevant at espoir level since 11-12 age restrictions apply. Things still seem to be about as clear as mud from a parents perspective. Shame really ,with a little forethought and basic organisation British/English Gymnastics could have avoided this totally avoidable 11th hour stressful mess. Let us all hope our individual Gymnastics clubs have been kept in the “loop” and better informed.
They state clearly they are not accepting Compulsory 2 passes so I'm sure they won't accept National Grade 2 seeing as the skills are much lower and equate mostly to Compulsory 3. I think that is right and proper. They are wanting turns on bars and multiple twists on floor. A turning vault and salto on beam. As would be reasonable at FIG level English National Championships. I think it has been done with the best of intentions and will be made clearer with time.

Out of interest I looked at this years Challenge scores. Out of 140 gymnasts only 3 who did AA did not make the 38. So it is a very doable score. I can see it being raised to 40 with time and still having large numbers qualify.
 

GymBeamRisky

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They state clearly they are not accepting Compulsory 2 passes so I'm sure they won't accept National Grade 2 seeing as the skills are much lower and equate mostly to Compulsory 3. I think that is right and proper. They are wanting turns on bars and multiple twists on floor. A turning vault and salto on beam. As would be reasonable at FIG level English National Championships. I think it has been done with the best of intentions and will be made clearer with time.

Out of interest I looked at this years Challenge scores. Out of 140 gymnasts only 3 who did AA did not make the 38. So it is a very doable score. I can see it being raised to 40 with time and still having large numbers qualify.
My daughter is very capable of performing all of the skills you have mentioned and I do understand why they would want to set a “minimum skill” criteria . However all the best intentions in the world cannot camouflage the fact that their timing has been abysmal and any changes to the rules should have been implemented many months ago so as young gymnasts and their clubs knew well in advance what competitions they needed to enter in order to achieve their 38 plus score. My daughters club are recognised as one of the top performing clubs in the UK and internally have very rigorous selection methods when it comes to high performance competitions, they are rightly proud of their reputation and would not compromise that by sending a girl to the English that was not ready. Hopefully BG will take any appeals felt necessary very seriously from well respected clubs and also take into account the position some deserving gymnasts have been left in due to the extremely late timing of these rule changes.

With the registration process already well into its first week let us indeed hope things will become much clearer very soon.
 
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Jimjac

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Q4. If a gymnast will be an Espoir in 2020, but are Compulsory Level 2 (2008 born) currently, they will not have done any FIG events in 2019 to gain the qualifying score of 38.0. Is there any way they could compete at this Championships?
A: The organisers have not specified that the qualifying competitions need to be FIG competitions, purely that a score of 38.0 has been achieved at a National or Regional Event. National events are, in principle, those run by British Gymnastics and Regional events are those run by individual Regions – usually as a qualifier to a National event. The organisers won’t accept random events run by individual clubs (ie Sandra Clarke Cup).

Q6. Will the organisers accept Compulsory Level 2 scores?
A: Unfortunately, no but they will accept results from Compulsory Level 1.

Is it me or do these answers contradict each other? I'm confused:oops:o_O
 

Jimjac

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However all the best intentions in the world cannot camouflage the fact that their timing has been abysmal and any changes to the rules should have been implemented many months ago so as young gymnasts and their clubs knew well in advance what competitions they needed to enter in order to achieve their 38 plus score.
Couldn't agree more. The rules were published on 12th December, if you haven't met this requirement whether it is due to injury or age, there are no options to try to meet it.
 

Jimjac

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Out of interest I looked at this years Challenge scores. Out of 140 gymnasts only 3 who did AA did not make the 38. So it is a very doable score. I can see it being raised to 40 with time and still having large numbers qualify.
I don't think the fact they have brought in a minimum qualifying score or the actually score is the issue, it is the timing plus lack of clarity.
 
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GymBeamRisky

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For those interested in the stats , there were 9 girls out of 97 who competed on all 4 apps that failed to reach 38 at last years English espoir , at junior the figure was 6 out of 90. Unless they raise the qualifying score significantly upwards in future years we are unlikely to see a great reduction in entries maybe with the exception of this year where a number of gymnasts capable of far higher score than 38 have been unwittingly caught out by the late change in rules and seemingly missed out. If appeals are not granted and the rules stay the same for next years English then I would expect a slight reduction in numbers for this year followed by a spike in numbers next year as many of those still competing girls that have been denied a place this year climb back on board.

To be honest this whole debacle ,and in the light of no apparent clear clarification, that imho is what it has become, is truly heartbreaking for a number of girls that have spent years and countless hours of toil in their respective gyms only to be told ,” bad luck ,due to a change of rules just 2 weeks or so before registration opens you cannot compete”. We all know that girls of espoir to junior age with new schools , puberty and a wealth of other distractions to cope with are very prone to leaving the sport at this age, regrettably for some the disappointment and resulting disillusionment will probably be enough to break the camels back and British Gymnastics can only be the weaker for it.
 

Jenny

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For those interested in the stats , there were 9 girls out of 97 who competed on all 4 apps that failed to reach 38 at last years English espoir , at junior the figure was 6 out of 90. Unless they raise the qualifying score significantly upwards in future years we are unlikely to see a great reduction in entries maybe with the exception of this year where a number of gymnasts capable of far higher score than 38 have been unwittingly caught out by the late change in rules and seemingly missed out. If appeals are not granted and the rules stay the same for next years English then I would expect a slight reduction in numbers for this year followed by a spike in numbers next year as many of those still competing girls that have been denied a place this year climb back on board.

To be honest this whole debacle ,and in the light of no apparent clear clarification, that imho is what it has become, is truly heartbreaking for a number of girls that have spent years and countless hours of toil in their respective gyms only to be told ,” bad luck ,due to a change of rules just 2 weeks or so before registration opens you cannot compete”. We all know that girls of espoir to junior age with new schools , puberty and a wealth of other distractions to cope with are very prone to leaving the sport at this age, regrettably for some the disappointment and resulting disillusionment will probably be enough to break the camels back and British Gymnastics can only be the weaker for it.
If you read the full clarification you will see several questions about girls who are out with injury and they make it clear they will be granted an entry. So it sounds like those girls you talk about will be ok. Don't panic just yet! If you can demonstrate your gymnast is of comparable level you should get an entry. I also agree they will have to raise the score to at least 40/ 42 to have any significant reduction in entries.
 

Learning Parent GB

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Q4. If a gymnast will be an Espoir in 2020, but are Compulsory Level 2 (2008 born) currently, they will not have done any FIG events in 2019 to gain the qualifying score of 38.0. Is there any way they could compete at this Championships?
A: The organisers have not specified that the qualifying competitions need to be FIG competitions, purely that a score of 38.0 has been achieved at a National or Regional Event. National events are, in principle, those run by British Gymnastics and Regional events are those run by individual Regions – usually as a qualifier to a National event. The organisers won’t accept random events run by individual clubs (ie Sandra Clarke Cup).

Q6. Will the organisers accept Compulsory Level 2 scores?
A: Unfortunately, no but they will accept results from Compulsory Level 1.

Is it me or do these answers contradict each other? I'm confused:oops:o_O
Maybe a voluntary level 2 score would count. Only 4 pieces and harder skills than comp 2?
 

Jenny

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I think this discussion is a moot point now as the English has already reached capacity for Senior and Junior WAG and entries are now shut. You can email to be added to a waiting list. Hope everyone here has their entry confirmed.
 

GymBeamRisky

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Maybe it is a “mute point” now but that does not excuse the incompetency that BG has shown in regards to the timing of its 11th hour announcements. Let’s all be honest about this.
 

Jimjac

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Maybe it is a “mute point” now but that does not excuse the incompetency that BG has shown in regards to the timing of its 11th hour announcements. Let’s all be honest about this.
Agree, needs to be sorted out for next year. To change the rules just before Christmas, 3 weeks before entries opened is disrespectful to the gymnasts & clubs. Many of the clubs had their main break, ours was closed for 2 weeks even for squads, only re-opened on Saturday. I think there will be more discussions and rules will change for next year. The entries closed within 5 days of opening (I doubt the organisers where expecting this as they had allowed a 6 week entry period), clearly there is a need to change something whether it is harder entry requirements or a different set-up to accommodate those who want to enter.
For us it is completely frustrating, they did accept the injury timeline but by the time we had a response the entry had filled up so we are now wait list.
 
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Learning Parent GB

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Agree, needs to be sorted out for next year. To change the rules just before Christmas, 3 weeks before entries opened is disrespectful to the gymnasts & clubs. Many of the clubs had their main break, ours was closed for 2 weeks even for squads, only re-opened on Saturday. I think there will be more discussions and rules will change for next year. The entries closed within 5 days of opening (I doubt the organisers where expecting this as they had allowed a 6 week entry period), clearly there is a need to change something whether it is harder entry requirements or a different set-up to accommodate those who want to enter.
For us it is completely frustrating, they did accept the injury timeline but by the time we had a response the entry had filled up so we are now wait list.
That is very frustrating. Have you had confirmation from the British yet re the injury timeline? I've had my fingers crossed for her.
 

Annikins

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I think that is what they are suggesting. Definitely for in age vol 2.
Maybe a thick question, but if you think in age level 2 would count, why wouldn't out of age level 2 count too? Aren't the skills needed very similar? And the scoring similar?
 

Jenny

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Maybe a thick question, but if you think in age level 2 would count, why wouldn't out of age level 2 count too? Aren't the skills needed very similar? And the scoring similar?
Yes I think they are the similar just older gymnasts (although out of age regional levels are set by region so the skills and scoring could be very different). I thought of in age vol 2 as they mentioned national finals not necessarily FIG, and thought that fit the description. Out of age doesn't have a national final. The levels are certainly similar.
 
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