WAG Stay or Go?

[JumpingQueen]

Hello! I am pretty new to this sport and could use some advice. My youngest DD (age 7) is on a pre-team and her coach is saying she needs one more year of pre-team before competing. She really wants to compete but since he thinks she needs another year they aren't pushing the skills as much, and are spending most of practice on drills and strength. The coach said she could probably go to another gym and get on a team and compete level 3 but it's just not what he thinks is best for her. Do we stay or go? I'm just worried about her getting bored for a third year of pre-team and losing interest, and also just a wasted year of not learning skills and upping hours. BUT we love the gym and the coach so wwyd? And thank you in advance!

 

[gymgal]

I think you have to look at what type of gym you are at. If they are successfully training high level gymnasts, then I would be more apt to trust the process, particularly since you like the gym and coaches. What level so they start competing? What scores do their girls get at the lower levels vs the upper levels (mymeetscores.com will help you find this out). It sounds like the gym has a philosophy of making the girls strong first, developing strong foundational skills and form before moving on to the actual skills needed to compete. So in that sense, it is not a wasted year as long as they are doing it right. But you also have to look at it from your dd's perspective in that she may lose interest and quit before she even has a chance to compete.

 

[JumpingQueen]

I think you have to look at what type of gym you are at. If they are successfully training high level gymnasts, then I would be more apt to trust the process, particularly since you like the gym and coaches. What level so they start competing? What scores do their girls get at the lower levels vs the upper levels (mymeetscores.com will help you find this out). It sounds like the gym has a philosophy of making the girls strong first, developing strong foundational skills and form before moving on to the actual skills needed to compete. So in that sense, it is not a wasted year as long as they are doing it right. But you also have to look at it from your dd's perspective in that she may lose interest and quit before she even has a chance to compete.

They start competing at level 3 and thank you for that link! I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at but when I look at "team records" the scores look pretty consistent throughout all the levels (9.75-9.9). It's definitely the best gym around here, reputation wise, and also looking at the length of that "gymnasts in top 100" list (or maybe that least doesn't mean anything, IDK?).

I'm leaning toward trusting the process but I hate feeling like if she were at another gym or with another coach (there are other groups at our gym that seem to focus on skills first, then form) that she would have the chance to progress a little faster. The age thing is another factor, is there any benefit from an age standpoint to competing sooner?

 

[Flyaway]

Drills and strength in preteam is very appropriate. I know it's hard to be told to wait, but it sounds like they may have a good philosophy that appears to be training successful gymnasts.

 

[CLgym]

When you say one more year of pre-team, does that mean she would have to wait to compete Level 3 until fall or winter of 2019 (depending on whether your state competes compulsory levels in the fall or winter/spring)? How old will she be at that time -- 8 or 9 years old? Are decisions being made right now for fall/winter 2018 level placement? Is it possible for the final decision to be delayed until later this spring or summer to see how things go?

I totally agree with others who have said that pre-team is super important for strength/flexibility training and basics. Getting a good foundation can be the key for long term success. However, competing and conditioning/drills are not mutually exclusive. In other words, girls competing Level 3 (and up!) should still be working on strength, drills and basics. And three years at pre-team does seems like a lot to me. That being said, if your DD is okay with another year of pre-team, the gym has a good track record, and you are otherwise happy there, then I would probably stay.

Out of curiosity, what is the age range typically for pre-team and Level 3 at your gym? Are all girls who participate in the pre-team moved to the JO team, or are they divided among different teams? I ask only because I came from a gym where only half the pre-team girls were given JO offers, and the other half were put on the Xcel team. Age was one of deciding factors.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

(there are other groups at our gym that seem to focus on skills first, then form) that she would have the chance to progress a little faster.

Skills first, form later is a rec philosophy. It's so easy to let bad habits creep in, even with form-focused coaching, and they take forever to get rid of. (Hi, I'd like to introduce you to my DD and the 3-year arms-next-to-your-ears saga. )

I don't know enough to answer the rest of your questions, but years in preteam spent on strength and shapes is the norm among the very strongest gyms in our city.

 

[kayjaybe]

They start competing at level 3 and thank you for that link! I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at but when I look at "team records" the scores look pretty consistent throughout all the levels (9.75-9.9). It's definitely the best gym around here, reputation wise, and also looking at the length of that "gymnasts in top 100" list (or maybe that least doesn't mean anything, IDK?).

Are you saying most of the scores you are seeing for the girls on the team range 9.75-9.9? That seems insanely high to me. Sure, you’ll have some girls that score that high on some events, but for most girls to be scoring that high regularly makes me wonder if they like to hold girls back a lot and may not allow them to move levels until perfection is achieved. If that is their philosophy, you just need to decide if you agree with it.

 

[JumpingQueen]

When you say one more year of pre-team, does that mean she would have to wait to compete Level 3 until fall or winter of 2019 (depending on whether your state competes compulsory levels in the fall or winter/spring)? How old will she be at that time -- 8 or 9 years old? Are decisions being made right now for fall/winter 2018 level placement? Is it possible for the final decision to be delayed until later this spring or summer to see how things go?

I totally agree with others who have said that pre-team is super important for strength/flexibility training and basics. Getting a good foundation can be the key for long term success. However, competing and conditioning/drills are not mutually exclusive. In other words, girls competing Level 3 (and up!) should still be working on strength, drills and basics. And three years at pre-team does seems like a lot to me. That being said, if your DD is okay with another year of pre-team, the gym has a good track record, and you are otherwise happy there, then I would probably stay.

Out of curiosity, what is the age range typically for pre-team and Level 3 at your gym? Are all girls who participate in the pre-team moved to the JO team, or are they divided among different teams? I ask only because I came from a gym where only half the pre-team girls were given JO offers, and the other half were put on the Xcel team. Age was one of deciding factors.

Yep, she would have to wait until fall 2019 and she will be 8. I don't know why they have to decide now but that's just the way they do it at this gym. I was thinking the same thing, maybe she'll be ready in a few months but since they've decided she will wait they aren't working on getting her ready, if that makes sense.

The age range for pre-team is 5-8 but I don't know about level 3, since we're not there yet (and apparently won't be for some time). It's all a little mysterious but I think it's pre-team to JO, I don't know anything about Xcel. Actually I think there's a separate Xcel pre-team track.

 

[JumpingQueen]

Are you saying most of the scores you are seeing for the girls on the team range 9.75-9.9? That seems insanely high to me. Sure, you’ll have some girls that score that high on some events, but for most girls to be scoring that high regularly makes me wonder if they like to hold girls back a lot and may not allow them to move levels until perfection is achieved. If that is their philosophy, you just need to decide if you agree with it.

Oh! Ha. No, I have never been on the site before so I am sure I'm looking at the scores wrong if that's the case. That was just the range I saw under the "team/individual records" section. But either way I'm pretty sure that's their philosophy anyway.

 

[NutterButter]

Sounds like your current gym knows what they are doing. Focus on strength/fundamentals is a good thing. I would be inclined to stay. The one thing that would give me pause is if the gym has very stringent move up standards (ie, level changes only happen if a score of 37 is achieved). This might be something you may want to look into.

 

[Sasha]

Yep, she would have to wait until fall 2019 and she will be 8. I don't know why they have to decide now but that's just the way they do it at this gym. I was thinking the same thing, maybe she'll be ready in a few months but since they've decided she will wait they aren't working on getting her ready, if that makes sense.

The age range for pre-team is 5-8 but I don't know about level 3, since we're not there yet (and apparently won't be for some time). It's all a little mysterious but I think it's pre-team to JO, I don't know anything about Xcel. Actually I think there's a separate Xcel pre-team track.

How long has your DD been in gymnastics? How long on pre-team?

I have seen your situation go a number of ways....

1) Athlete really does need the year to build strength and conditioning, and the pre-team time spent on basics prior to L3 is exactly what helps her have an amazing L3 season a year later.

2) Athlete is tracked into Xcel after waiting a year on pre-team, and is shattered because she thought she was aiming for JO and coaches weren't clear that this was a potential (or more often, probable) outcome.

3) Athlete is tracked into Xcel and is perfectly happy about that as coaches were clear on expectations and gym treats Xcel favorably.

4) Athlete spends another year on pre-team and is told she needs another year on preteam after that because she still can't do X, Y, or Z. (This really happened to a 10 year old girl I know at a 'top' gym! Kept her on preteam for 3 years dangling the carrot of JO!! then finally after 3 years said she is too old now and only Xcel is available!) Mom eventually switched her and she is competing L4 successfully at a more inclusive gym. Ugh.

In all of the above scenarios, coach communication is #1. You need to understand, as best you can, what your daughter needs to achieve to be accepted onto a team (either Xcel or JO or other if applicable to your region). Then you need to have a mechanism to check in on progress every few months or so. Is she making progress? Do they expect her to be ready for the targeted team in time? Any concerns with her progress?

Sometimes, these 'top' gyms can string kids along who aren't standouts. I can't say whether they do it on purpose to take your money, or just don't like the 'tough' conversations with parents that their child just isn't really what they are looking for. Being at a 'top' gym can be a blessing and a curse.

So definitely be friendly (not too pushy, but insist that coach can be honest with you about outlook) and get more facts and insights from coach.

 

[mls529]

Another question worth asking -- if your daughter is doing great after 1 more year in pre-team, would they consider level 4 placement? That is what happened to my DD several years back, and a couple of her teammates too. Coaches kept her in pre-team for an extra year when she was 8, but because she was able to get her kip and BHS-BHS in that year (plus improve her form and break a few bad habits), they put her on level 4 instead of level 3. I understand not every gym offers that type of flexibility, but it is worth asking.

 

[Sasha]

And reading my post back, I want to be clear that outcome #1 (that this really will help her and she'll make L3 next year) is entirely possible!

Other people had already mentioned that case, though, so I just wanted to point out other real-world scenarios that have left athletes and parents wishing they had asked more questions.

 

[JumpingQueen]

Other people had already mentioned that case, though, so I just wanted to point out other real-world scenarios that have left athletes and parents wishing they had asked more questions. [/QUOTE]

LOL. thanks! That was all super helpful. Really, thanks for taking the time to offer all that info. No one has ever mentioned Xcel to us so that's something I never even thought of!! She's been in gymnastics for about 2 years, she moved to pre-team almost right away but at a different gym (we moved, found this gym, and she got placed in the group she's in now). I really like the idea of checking in on progress periodically.

 

[John]

I would ask my DD what she wanted understanding she is young. I would then determine what is best for my family. I would not hesitate to move nor would I feel I needed to stay. The final decision would be based on what is best for DD and the family.

I would ask the OP what they were feeling and in what direction they were leaning while making the original post?

 

[Muddlethru]

Are you saying most of the scores you are seeing for the girls on the team range 9.75-9.9? That seems insanely high to me. Sure, you’ll have some girls that score that high on some events, but for most girls to be scoring that high regularly makes me wonder if they like to hold girls back a lot and may not allow them to move levels until perfection is achieved. If that is their philosophy, you just need to decide if you agree with it.

I don't think OP said anything about "most girls in her gym scoring that high regularly". She clearly stated she was looking at "team records" which is the highest score a gymnast(s) at a gym has attained in an event. She did say it was consistent through the levels which might have confused you but I took it to mean that all the levels had at least a gymnast(not most of the gymnast) hit those scores. It could be the same girl getting all the high scores as she moves up the levels. Additionally, she says the gym has a long list of gymnasts in the Top 100. Typically gymnasts in the top 100 score 9.8 - 9.9. There are many gyms that may have a gymnast record high of 9.7 - 9.9 in every event and at every level. So I think OP was looking at mymeetscores quite accurately.

To OP, with the limited information I can only say if you have an opportunity to be at a gym with high caliber coaches and you and your daughter like the gym and coaches, I would stay put. Conditioning, drills and strength building is vital in the later success of a gymnast; and if she is coached correctly, that is gold. But I agree that it can be frustrating that they are not pushing the skills. Understand however that is because she does not need them yet. I know you said your daughter wants to compete, but find out how it will affect her if she did another year in rec.

 

[JumpingQueen]

I don't think OP said anything about "most girls in her gym scoring that high regularly". She clearly stated she was looking at "team records" which is the highest score a gymnast(s) at a gym has attained in an event. She did say it was consistent through the levels which might have confused you but I took it to mean that all the levels had at least a gymnast(not most of the gymnast) hit those scores. It could be the same girl getting all the high scores as she moves up the levels. Additionally, she says the gym has a long list of gymnasts in the Top 100. Typically gymnasts in the top 100 score 9.8 - 9.9. There are many gyms that may have a gymnast record high of 9.7 - 9.9 in every event and at every level. So I think OP was looking at mymeetscores quite accurately.

To OP, with the limited information I can only say if you have an opportunity to be at a gym with high caliber coaches and you and your daughter like the gym and coaches, I would stay put. Conditioning, drills and strength building is vital in the later success of a gymnast; and if she is coached correctly, that is gold. But I agree that it can be frustrating that they are not pushing the skills. Understand however that is because she does not need them yet. I know you said your daughter wants to compete, but find out how it will affect her if she did another year in rec.

Yes! That's what I was looking at. Thanks

This is all super helpful. I keep waiting for someone to factor her age into the equation but since no one has mentioned the fact that she's going to be way too old by the time she starts competing (which is/was a large part of my concern) I guess that's not an issue here? I know each kid has their own path, etc, but if there were some consensus that competing younger is better, no matter what, that would push me toward trying to find another gym.

 

[Sasha]

Yes! That's what I was looking at. Thanks

This is all super helpful. I keep waiting for someone to factor her age into the equation but since no one has mentioned the fact that she's going to be way too old by the time she starts competing (which is/was a large part of my concern) I guess that's not an issue here? I know each kid has their own path, etc, but if there were some consensus that competing younger is better, no matter what, that would push me toward trying to find another gym.

Her age really only comes into play if the gym you are at (or one you are looking into) thinks it does.

8-9 years old is a very common age for Level 3. However, at a number of gyms, this would be "too old." Though this is ridiculous to me, "top" gyms often have their choice among many, many athletes, and therefore select only the ones that fit whatever 'mold' they seem to like. Often, this skews very young.

"Know thy gym"

Look at the ages of the girls on the levels 3 and 4 teams at your current gym. If you can't find that, ask the coaches or other team parents there. If many are 8 and up, then you're probably OK. If many are 6-7 and 8 is about the oldest, you may be pushing it for next year.

 

[kayjaybe]

I don't think OP said anything about "most girls in her gym scoring that high regularly". She clearly stated she was looking at "team records" which is the highest score a gymnast(s) at a gym has attained in an event. She did say it was consistent through the levels which might have confused you but I took it to mean that all the levels had at least a gymnast(not most of the gymnast) hit those scores. It could be the same girl getting all the high scores as she moves up the levels. Additionally, she says the gym has a long list of gymnasts in the Top 100. Typically gymnasts in the top 100 score 9.8 - 9.9. There are many gyms that may have a gymnast record high of 9.7 - 9.9 in every event and at every level. So I think OP was looking at mymeetscores quite accurately.

To OP, with the limited information I can only say if you have an opportunity to be at a gym with high caliber coaches and you and your daughter like the gym and coaches, I would stay put. Conditioning, drills and strength building is vital in the later success of a gymnast; and if she is coached correctly, that is gold. But I agree that it can be frustrating that they are not pushing the skills. Understand however that is because she does not need them yet. I know you said your daughter wants to compete, but find out how it will affect her if she did another year in rec.

Thanks for that explanation. That makes sense. I was thinking it was unusual if all the girls in all meets all had scores in the high 9s. I didn’t realize you could look at it in the way you described.

 

[M2Abi]

Not knowing your gym or daughter, I can't say anything with certainty, but I would think 3 years of pre-team is too much. I would be less concerned about age. My dd competed Level 3 at age 8 and was middle of the pack or on the younger side for age.