Parents team struggling - parent needs advice

[StayTru2U]

Hi All,

I am new to the site and seeking advice. I just got out of a Level 4 team meeting with parents and coaches (and gym owners) regarding our DDs. Almost the entire team of 12 girls (ranging in age from 8 to 13 years, with most being on the younger side of the range) are struggling this year. Their coach is concerned the majority of the girls will not reach the mobility score to advance next year. The reasons cited by the coaches/gym owners for our DDs poor performance were: (1) the girls are not working hard/they are not trying, (2) the girls lack motivation, (3) the girls lack focus, (4) the girls lack a good work ethic, (5) the girls are not watching each other during practice, (6) the girls are talking during practice, (7) the girls may not have “natural” talent, so they need to work harder, and (8) the girls are not supporting or encouraging one another. Our DDs have one coach, and their coach said our DDs are so lazy and unmotivated no other coach in the gym wants to work with them. Their coach said she is completely frustrated with them. When asked what she is currently doing to try to motivate the girls, their coach responded she has tried everything; some examples she gave were “punishing” the girls when they miss a skill by requiring them to do conditioning (e.g., rope climbs), cutting them off when practicing their routine(s) if they miss a skill or perform a skill incorrectly (e.g., without proper form), yelling at them if they are unfocused (the coach said particularly in situations if they are unfocused and do not do a skill correctly they could get hurt), and, in general, being tough [verbally] on them to try to get them to make corrections and improve. The girls’ former Level 3 coach also participated in the meeting and said the girls, “were the same way last year”.

When asked by one parent what the coach/gym owners plan to do, their response was that us parents need to “encourage” our kids more and communicate with the girls they need to work harder.

When several of the parents assured them we certainly are already doing so, and inquired what else can we do to help…there really was no answer.

My DD loves the sport. From listening to the other parents, it sounds like their daughters also still like participating in the sport. From my perspective, they really are a nice group of young ladies.

Please also note I am in no hurry for my daughter to advance next year. My DD is also fine with her progress and is OK with the idea of needing to repeat the level (she is on the younger side and is aware she is a little behind).

How do I react to this news? What can a parent do to help in this situation?

 

[stillhoping]

What are your other gym options? I would be looking for a better environment for my child.

There are several red flags in your post. Honestly, when every child on the team is struggling, it’s a sign of bad coaching. You also mentioned that they “motivate” the girls with verbal and physical “punishment.” I would suggest that you watch practice and see what this means, because it sounds abusive. If every coach in that gym believes that these girls have no natural talent and are uncoachable, there’s really no reason to leave the girls there. They all need probably need a fresh start.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I guess I personally would take it in, accept that my DD was behaving in a way that I don’t love, and accept the consequences. I would also have a conversation about those behaviors and the coach’s reactions with my daughter and see if the accounts jive up. If they do not, I would try to do a little unplanned practice viewing on different days/parts of practice and see where my perceptions end up. It seems weird that the entire group is lazy, untalented, and unmotivated. This is a beginning level- how did only girls with no team characteristics at all end up filling their team? Something was either lost, or lost in translation. If the only reenforcement is punishment, I can see how good traits could get lost.

 

[gymdoc]

I would do what I can to encourage the team camaraderie piece by setting up a group social event. Bowling, escape room, pizza party - some fun bonding time for the girls so they can socialize outside the gym.
I know mine LOVE to chit chat with their teammates, especially after a long school day, so sometimes they are "unfocused"
However, I definitely am not a fan of the coach's response at all, and I too would worry about the quality of coaching there

 

[LindyHopper]

I find it difficult to believe that all 12 girls are exactly the same, that they ALL lack work ethic, effort, motivation, focus, and natural talent.

And isn't it amazing that absolutely NONE of this is any of the coaching staff's responsibility?

Practice with this coach's kind of motivation sounds miserable. I wouldn't be motivated either. They've "tried everything" except treating the girls like humans and genuinely encouraging them. Giving a little praise after a gymnast takes and applies a correction (even if the skill is still far from competition) can go a long way.

I think it's more a matter of the coaching staff not being able to coach the girls to a 34 (at least one of the girls out of the 12 should be able to make it, or there is something wrong with the coaching/culture at that gym). I think the staff just realized they might not be capable of getting the girls to 34, and are covering their butts by blaming the girls (and their families for not encouraging them enough).

How is the gym's optional program? Are you allowed to watch practice, and if so, is there a marked difference between how the L4 girls behave and how the girls at L3, L5 and/or L6, and L7 behave? Because by the way they were described by the staff, the difference in behavior should be obvious. How have the L4 scores been for your gym the last few seasons? Were they rocking it and hitting 34 or higher regularly, or were they hovering more around 32?

All I know is that if the staff were placing all of the blame on 12 8-13 year olds, AND they had no action plan moving forward (asking parents to encourage their kids more is not a plan), I would be looking into other gyms. I might still finish out the season at the current gym (if my daughter loves her teammates and doesn't dread going to practice), but I would seriously consider a gym change for next season.

 

[amiandjim]

What she said. Exactly.

 

[SMH]

I’d be concerned that 100% of the fault is being put on the gymnasts, and none on the coaching staff. As others have said, what are the chances that all 12 girls just happen to be uncoachable, lazy etc?
I would be taking a hard look at the current gym, and also looking around at new gyms and considering a switch.

 

[Getoutyall]

When I first saw your post I felt like you could be talking about our gym. Our Level 4 team has basically been ignored for level 2 and 3 and we tried to speak up and we were just "crazy gym parents". We called a meeting with the owners after our first three level 3 meets and asked for new coaching at level 3. How would it be possible that they picked 12 lemons out our year. Not one girl was scoring good. We were given a week of new coaching and every girls score improved 1.5 points from there until the end of the season. They did that with one week of good coaching!! We are now at level 4 and have a good coach. The gym finally agrees that they were the ones that messed up but now the girls are having to work extra hard to get out of the hole that was created for them . Our meet last week level 5, 6, and 7 all took first place and we finished second to last (but the girls still did way better than they did at their second meet at level 3). It's crazy the discrepancy that having lost good coaching at those two years created in our gym. So I don't' really have much advise but know that you're not alone. We stuck it out because we knew the level 4 and 5 coach are really great.

 

[mls529]

We had a group at our old gym that was a bit notorious for being extra "social" during practice, which lead to being unfocused. That said, those girls were still performing at meets, maybe not super high scores, but certainly mobility. I totally agree with others that there is no way all 12 girls are untalented and lazy! Without a doubt the gym needs to be looking at the coach. While you might hesitate to look elsewhere, I am sure the other parents are going to be turned off by this meeting, and others will also be looking elsewhere too. Good luck to your DD.

 

[StayTru2U]

I find it difficult to believe that all 12 girls are exactly the same, that they ALL lack work ethic, effort, motivation, focus, and natural talent.

And isn't it amazing that absolutely NONE of this is any of the coaching staff's responsibility?

Practice with this coach's kind of motivation sounds miserable. I wouldn't be motivated either. They've "tried everything" except treating the girls like humans and genuinely encouraging them. Giving a little praise after a gymnast takes and applies a correction (even if the skill is still far from competition) can go a long way.

I think it's more a matter of the coaching staff not being able to coach the girls to a 34 (at least one of the girls out of the 12 should be able to make it, or there is something wrong with the coaching/culture at that gym). I think the staff just realized they might not be capable of getting the girls to 34, and are covering their butts by blaming the girls (and their families for not encouraging them enough).

How is the gym's optional program? Are you allowed to watch practice, and if so, is there a marked difference between how the L4 girls behave and how the girls at L3, L5 and/or L6, and L7 behave? Because by the way they were described by the staff, the difference in behavior should be obvious. How have the L4 scores been for your gym the last few seasons? Were they rocking it and hitting 34 or higher regularly, or were they hovering more around 32?

All I know is that if the staff were placing all of the blame on 12 8-13 year olds, AND they had no action plan moving forward (asking parents to encourage their kids more is not a plan), I would be looking into other gyms. I might still finish out the season at the current gym (if my daughter loves her teammates and doesn't dread going to practice), but I would seriously consider a gym change for next season.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

When one athlete isn’t performing well, it’s likely the athlete.

When the whole team is not performing well it’s likely the “manager”

And I would of said exactly that in that meeting.

I would of looked at them and said the above along with...... ALL the kids are performing like crud and you bear no responsibility at all. You are actually going to keep a straight face and look me in the eye and tell me you are doing it all right??

And I’m guessing they wouldn’t be looking me in the eye.

And I would be finding a new gym.

 

[gymgal]

The OP stated that coaches were worried that the "majority" of the team may not get the 34 to move on. So there is a mix of girls within the team, some of whom are applying themselves and doing ok with the present coaching. There are teams that are more chatty than others and it can get in the way. This level is the beginning of "getting hard" and it tends to be where you see the distinction between girls wanting to be there more for socialization and those who truly want to be there for gymnastics. This is particularly true if you are in a gym where the coaches are not super strict about who gets on team.

I would want my dd's perspective on the situation first. Then I would want to view practice to see exactly what is happening. Between those two, you should get a good idea of whether the coaches are being truthful about the lack of motivation, too much chatter, etc. It only takes a couple of girls to spark it in the remaining girls, but given that the previous coach is also saying this was an issue last year and that they chose to have a full team meeting instead of bringing in individual girls, I am guessing it is more than 2 or 3.

What to do moving forward would depend on what you find when talking to your dd and viewing practice. If you find it is more of a coaching issue (not enough praise, too much standing around instead of keeping them busy, lack of understanding in how to keep them motivated), then you have a decision to make - approach the coach/owner, find another gym, etc. I would also want to know how previous teams did with the same coaches. If you don't already know, check mymeetscores.com to check previous scores. If previous teams were in the 34/35 below range, then you know where you stand - what type of gym you are at. At that point you have to take all that information and decide whether you are ok staying at that gym or moving on. That would depend on whether your dd is happy there, what are her goals for gymnastics, whether you find the atmosphere coach-toxic or more just a frustration from having too many girls who are less motivated

 

[cadybearsmommy]

I find it difficult to believe that all 12 girls are exactly the same, that they ALL lack work ethic, effort, motivation, focus, and natural talent.

And isn't it amazing that absolutely NONE of this is any of the coaching staff's responsibility?

Practice with this coach's kind of motivation sounds miserable. I wouldn't be motivated either. They've "tried everything" except treating the girls like humans and genuinely encouraging them. Giving a little praise after a gymnast takes and applies a correction (even if the skill is still far from competition) can go a long way.

I think it's more a matter of the coaching staff not being able to coach the girls to a 34 (at least one of the girls out of the 12 should be able to make it, or there is something wrong with the coaching/culture at that gym). I think the staff just realized they might not be capable of getting the girls to 34, and are covering their butts by blaming the girls (and their families for not encouraging them enough).

How is the gym's optional program? Are you allowed to watch practice, and if so, is there a marked difference between how the L4 girls behave and how the girls at L3, L5 and/or L6, and L7 behave? Because by the way they were described by the staff, the difference in behavior should be obvious. How have the L4 scores been for your gym the last few seasons? Were they rocking it and hitting 34 or higher regularly, or were they hovering more around 32?

All I know is that if the staff were placing all of the blame on 12 8-13 year olds, AND they had no action plan moving forward (asking parents to encourage their kids more is not a plan), I would be looking into other gyms. I might still finish out the season at the current gym (if my daughter loves her teammates and doesn't dread going to practice), but I would seriously consider a gym change for next season.

When one athlete isn’t performing well, it’s likely the athlete.

When the whole team is not performing well it’s likely the “manager”

And I would of said exactly that in that meeting.

I would of looked at them and said the above along with...... ALL the kids are performing like crud and you bear no responsibility at all. You are actually going to keep a straight face and look me in the eye and tell me you are doing it all right??

And I’m guessing they wouldn’t be looking me in the eye.

And I would be finding a new gym.

I was going to give advice, but these two posts pretty much sum up my feelings. If the whole team is struggling, chances are it's not all the girl's fault. And if they really are more chatty, or acting up/not working hard in practice, it might be that they are bored or simply not being motivated. Either way, I think there are some coaching issues here and putting all of the blame on the team while offering no real solutions is simply not ok.

 

[2gymmies]

Sometimes bad apples can be really strong influences and drag down the entire group... I would be asking my kid who the leaders of the group are and who the role models are for work ethic. Also talk about being a good example!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Sometimes bad apples can be really strong influences and drag down the entire group... I would be asking my kid who the leaders of the group are and who the role models are for work ethic. Also talk about being a good example!

That’s all well and good. And it is an important conversation to have.

And that the coaches are accepting no responsibility or offering up a plan or setting expectations is a huge red flag. And they need to be called on it.

JMO Not an environment I want my kid in

 

[3rd_time_around]

Hi All,

I am new to the site and seeking advice. I just got out of a Level 4 team meeting with parents and coaches (and gym owners) regarding our DDs. Almost the entire team of 12 girls (ranging in age from 8 to 13 years, with most being on the younger side of the range) are struggling this year. Their coach is concerned the majority of the girls will not reach the mobility score to advance next year. The reasons cited by the coaches/gym owners for our DDs poor performance were: (1) the girls are not working hard/they are not trying, (2) the girls lack motivation, (3) the girls lack focus, (4) the girls lack a good work ethic, (5) the girls are not watching each other during practice, (6) the girls are talking during practice, (7) the girls may not have “natural” talent, so they need to work harder, and (8) the girls are not supporting or encouraging one another. Our DDs have one coach, and their coach said our DDs are so lazy and unmotivated no other coach in the gym wants to work with them. Their coach said she is completely frustrated with them. When asked what she is currently doing to try to motivate the girls, their coach responded she has tried everything; some examples she gave were “punishing” the girls when they miss a skill by requiring them to do conditioning (e.g., rope climbs), cutting them off when practicing their routine(s) if they miss a skill or perform a skill incorrectly (e.g., without proper form), yelling at them if they are unfocused (the coach said particularly in situations if they are unfocused and do not do a skill correctly they could get hurt), and, in general, being tough [verbally] on them to try to get them to make corrections and improve. The girls’ former Level 3 coach also participated in the meeting and said the girls, “were the same way last year”.

When asked by one parent what the coach/gym owners plan to do, their response was that us parents need to “encourage” our kids more and communicate with the girls they need to work harder.

When several of the parents assured them we certainly are already doing so, and inquired what else can we do to help…there really was no answer.

My DD loves the sport. From listening to the other parents, it sounds like their daughters also still like participating in the sport. From my perspective, they really are a nice group of young ladies.

Please also note I am in no hurry for my daughter to advance next year. My DD is also fine with her progress and is OK with the idea of needing to repeat the level (she is on the younger side and is aware she is a little behind).

How do I react to this news? What can a parent do to help in this situation?

Sounds like the girls should find a different gym with a coach that knows what to do. (If possible. I know some places there are no choices.) This is a lot of excuses for the adults' shortcomings.

 

[StayTru2U]

Thank you all for your insight. Indeed, the conversation in the meeting was perplexing; I think most parents were surprised by the feedback. Note, too, Level 4 is not the beginning level in our gym. Eleven out of twelve of the girls competed last year as Level 3s (the 12th young lady transferred from another gym). All 11 girls received the qualifying score last year to move up to Level 4 and all 11 girls qualified and competed at Level 3 States last year. Therefore, the gym owners definitely had justification for moving all the girls to Level 4. My DD cried when I informed her what her coach and gym owners said about her and her teammates. She says that they are working hard. Outside the gym, she is an A student, plays an instrument, and is very self-disciplined with her homework. Thus, I feel she has a good work ethic outside the gym, so I am puzzled why she would not in the gym. Then, again, she is one of the youngest on the team and very social, so I could envision her being one of the more chatty girls on her team. I do hold myself accountable though as she has made some complaints about her coach that I think I need to listen to more carefully. I also agree I need to sit in more practices and question, where needed.
I don't want to be one of those moms who thinks "not my kid" (I think most of the moms were trying not to be defensive in the meeting) but, on the other hand, my gut instinct says something is wrong.

 

[StayTru2U]

Yes, thank you for your post. The competition season ends for us in about 8 weeks (excluding States if any of the girls qualify). I think my game plan will be to: (1) attend more practices, (2) confront the coach when needed, (3) talk to other parents about potential social outings with the girls, (4) consider other potential gyms, and (5) make a decision before summer about whether or not we stay or go. If I observe behavior from the coach that I do not deem to be appropriate, I am not hesitant to pull my daughter sooner.

 

[John]

If this were my child, and it was just 9 months ago, I would ask my self this:

These are kids, young kids. I believe that kids give back what they get. Are these coaches being positive, are they setting high expectations, are they giving good sound technical corrections? If they are the children will respond with positivity and excellence. The coaches need to look within and find the fortitude to be good positive coaches. Coaches are leaders they need to lead. Until the coach can say with honesty that he/she is being a positive, inspiring, and good technical coach it cannot be determined if the kids are doing their part. Good Luck.

 

[PRY9]

I would also switch gyms - logistically and financially it may make sense to wait until the season is over. Spend that time researching your options.

So many issues here - I agree with the others that stated when it's the whole team there are coaching issues. In addition to a concern over coaching effectiveness - the punitive environment is it's own concern. Do they anything to motivate these girls in a positive way? If there is some truth to the group work ethic - a new gym will help with that as well.