WAG Team to rec ratio

[putri]

I was Googling another topic when I came upon WOGA's page. The page stated that they have 3000 gymnast with 200 competing. That's just 1 out of 15 kids do well enough in gymnastics to compete. You think this is average? Or it's just cause it's WOGA? I think our gym is more 1:4... Or even 1:5.

http://woga.net/team-2/

 

[wgagym]

Not every child or parent has a desire to compete. They just want to learn. What that tells me is that WOGA has a very strong good rec program on top of their obviously successful team program, and that is a GREAT thing!

 

[kandkfunk]

Our gym has about a 1:15 ratio of JO gymnasts vs rec. If you add Xcel to JO then the ratio drops to about 1:8. We are a much smaller gym than WOGA, but our rec program is growing at an amazing pace with the most growth coming at the preschool age. A strong rec program is a sign of a pretty healthy gym.

 

[iwannacoach]

This can go from one extreme to the other. One program may be based upon the notion their team invites are based upon a child's foreseen ability to make it to the mid optional levels. There are healthy reasons for doing it that way, as some, many, most, and all kids think they have a clear to the olympics the moment they put on a team leotard. Sure that's cute and fun to be a part of, but is it possible there's a bunch of unwitting parents having a jolly time at the expense of a their child's future emotional health.

What I'm trying to say is that most kids and their families are not able to endure or support the process and work it takes to make it to L8 or L9. I don't think every team child wants to make it to those levels, but who's to know which child has those reasonable dreams, and which don't.

So what is the ratio of those who can and those who know no better? I'd put the ratio at 1:10, but would point out that in the span of time that single kid is on the team, there may be 25 kids who pass through the rec program. So maybe the true ratio is closer to 1:25.

So how/why do we see teams that have ratios around 1:5. It probably comes down to something between wishful thinking with a care free attitude, and using the lowest level of team kids as cash cows to keep the lights on. In my opinion, one of those extremes gives kids a chance to do team gymnastics based upon domination of the compulsory world, and I'm fine with that because they provide a fine service for the money. About the other extreme..... sure it's a business and folks are allowed to make a few dollars while catering to the public, but I honestly can't understand how they can do that when they know there's kids in their program who will never get the chance to use their abundant talent to pursue their dream.

It just seems unfair.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I don't think of it that way, OP. Our gym has tons and tons of kids in rec classes, 18mo-up. The preschool rec classes are, as with many other sports, the bread and butter of the gym. Very few of the kids who take gymnastics at 4 go on to compete eventually.... But they still learn valuable things from it and have fun! We don't offer an automatic team spot to the higher level rec classes for older girls, we have plenty of kids of elementary and middle school age who just WANT to take rec classes once/week, and whose parents are not interested in the commitment to team even if their kids were good enough or driven enough to do it. That's perfectly fine and I love that the gym offers everyone an opportunity to do gymnastics even if they are not "talented" or the right age or whatever. I don't think it reflects badly on the gym that the rec to team ratio is high, I think that's the way it should be. Not all kids (and parents) have what it takes or are willing to be on team.

 

[txgymfan]

If a gym has a high rec to team ratio team costs should be lower. Rec kids typically pay a higher hourly fee than team gymnasts which helps with the upkeep of the equipment.

 

[Faith]

Rec is often where the money is. Some clubs need a huge rec program to pay the bills.

The club has over 700 rec kids, with just 20 on the wag team. It's a fine balance when space is limited, the wag team must work around rec, and with classes running pretty constantly, there's no time or space for a larger team.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

wow that is a small team Faith. I suppose it depends where you draw the line as "competitive"

If you say everyone Level 5 and over then our team would be quite small - say 13 with about 400 total gymnasts, but we just had 70 compete in the county level 6 two piece.

 

[gymmomtoo]

Our gym has just over 1000 kids enrolled, of which about 80 are team kids. Gym owner frequently says the rec kids pay the bills, he loses money on team.

 

[JBS]

If a gym has a high rec to team ratio team costs should be lower. Rec kids typically pay a higher hourly fee than team gymnasts which helps with the upkeep of the equipment.

Each program should be run independently if you really looking to make money. Team should at least break even. See attached articles...

https://usagym.org/pages/home/publications/technique/2003/5/businesstip.pdf

https://usagym.org/pages/home/publications/technique/2003/6/businesstip.pdf

We do not lose money on team. We do not make a ton...but it pays for all of our high dollar employees. We do not try and bring people onto team without understanding the financial commitment either. We are upfront that they should have $5,000 - $10,000 per year ready for gymnastics if they join team.

Our team is currently running from $15/hour for pre-team...$10.50/hour for Xcel...and $5.19 for our upper level kids on 20 hours.

We have about 400 rec & preschool kids...so relatively small gym. 60 JO girls...10 JO boys...30 Xcel...100 team kids total.

 

[emorymom]

About the other extreme..... sure it's a business and folks are allowed to make a few dollars while catering to the public, but I honestly can't understand how they can do that when they know there's kids in their program who will never get the chance to use their abundant talent to pursue their dream.

Sigh, but isn't this just another way of saying that kids who are going to progress slower or top out at L7 don't deserve a coach.
Around here most gyms don't have rec programs that allow the same kind of high level of fitness that the kids get in even the lowest compulsory levels of team. There really needs to be an avenue whenever possible to let these kids work their way up team no matter how slowly, if their parents can pay and they show up and work hard.
The experience of working on's way to L6 by age 16 or whatever, is going to be an athletic experience probably not available to the child in any other sport. It needs to be valued for what it is. The child competes against herself.
Rec classes don't have time to provide that kind of training.

 

[iwannacoach]

Sigh, but isn't this just another way of saying that kids who are going to progress slower or top out at L7 don't deserve a coach.
Around here most gyms don't have rec programs that allow the same kind of high level of fitness that the kids get in even the lowest compulsory levels of team. There really needs to be an avenue whenever possible to let these kids work their way up team no matter how slowly, if their parents can pay and they show up and work hard.
The experience of working on's way to L6 by age 16 or whatever, is going to be an athletic experience probably not available to the child in any other sport. It needs to be valued for what it is. The child competes against herself.
Rec classes don't have time to provide that kind of training.

It becomes a matter of doing what you can, and realizing you can't be everything to everyone. The resources are limited in terms of space, money, and staff...... and it's often a matter of making choices and deciding where to spend the money that comes in, much of which would otherwise have been a profit to the owner.

Just to operate one group of 6-8 kids in a 20 hour training week takes between $1500-$3000 a month to pay a coach with a resume ranging from some experience, to one with the national level experience a level 9 or 10 group requires to have a chance for a safe and progressive experience. That same group will use one fifth the capacity of a common gym's equipment and floor space, but that's only when that group uses one fifth of their time using off equipment space working on shaping, dance, flexibility and strength training.

If there are 2 groups of kids with 20 hour training weeks, the effective capacity available is reduced by 40 %. Assuming those 12-16 kids are a combination of uptraining L5's and optional kids, there will be other team groups working at levels 3 and 4 that also use equipment. Those to groups will use another 20 -30% of the gym's collective capacity, which leaves the rec program with very few options and little room for growth.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the team fees may, or not, cover the coaches' wages. Add to that a fair share of their use of gym resources including rent, utilities, equipment purchases, and upkeep to come to a loss figure in the neighborhood of $200 per child each month.

It really comes down to making difficult choices, and that doesn't always work well for the 16 year old level six who needs to have that experience to feel like she's had it all. As a bottom to top coach, I work with kids of all levels, ages, and dedication, and love doing it as they all offer a me a chance to be a part of their joy for learning.

Deciding who will and who won't get that team spot is very difficult, and it's tough to know your choice will disappoint a child you've worked with, but that's the reality of the industry.

 

[putri]

So interesting!! I have nothing informational to add but want to let you all know that I am reading all the answers and find each one very enlightening!! Thank you!!