WAG Teen cheerleader forced to do splits article

[skschlag]

So, in a news conference tonight, this was discussed. The coach called the technique "forced splits." I am not one to jump on anyhting, and often reserve judgement on things, but facts are that girls were injured by this technique. There is a criminal investigation going on. He has been fired, and was previously fired from another position for similar actions.

I am actually usually on teh "innocent until proven guilty" and really hope that this is not what it seems. However, the current evidence is troubling...

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/2...lliams-denver-east-high-school-forced-splits/

 

[profmom]

I've seen athletes (mostly guys) stretched until they were red faced and a little bit teary, but in a context where a) there was a deep relationship of trust between athlete and coach, b) when the coach could hear the athlete saying when it was past the point of toleration and would respect that, and c) when the coach has been highly experienced and has known the individual athletes well enough to recognize the nuances of what was going on -- who might tolerate stretching past the point of when it would be beneficial and who could take just a little more with some encouragement.

None of these caveats seem to hold in this situation.

 

[txgymfan]

Definite Maybe, clearly your post was directed at me. I get that gymnastics is tough. I will give almost anyone the benefit of 100 doubts. This case gets no sympathy because all evidence points to this being child abuse and I have seen the long term consequences of it.

Also, I don't care how amazing of a coach someone is. When a female tells a male to stop touching her. He needs to listen. I don't care if a child never gets her splits. If the gymnast is ok with the stretching, don't tell him to stop. If you tell someone to stop touching, they need to stop. It doesn't matter if the coach produced gymnasts with 100 medals.

 

[DefiniteMaybe]

Definite Maybe, clearly your post was directed at me.

Actually, it wasn't. To be completely honest, I wasn't paying that much attention to who said what, and nothing I said was specifically directed at any one particular person or comment. The first part of my last post was referring to a concern I've had for a year or two.

 

[ladybird]

Actually, it wasn't. To be completely honest, I wasn't paying that much attention to who said what, and nothing I said was specifically directed at any one particular person or comment. The first part of my last post was referring to a concern I've had for a year or two.

Maybe what we are all experiencing here is the fact that there is usually a core group of people who post pretty regularly. I sometimes hold back from giving an opinion for fear of getting jumped on. This may lead to the appearance of everyone on here being likeminded and therefore closed minded on certain subjects.

Back to the topic at hand, our coach used to use a stretching technique (not like the one in the video) that I believe at one time was seen as common practice. I witnessed my child wincing and crying as he did this to her. I confronted him about it and asked him not to do it again because she wanted to quit because of this. He couldn't believe that I was asking him not to stretch her. So he stopped doing this to her, but he continued this stretching technique with other kids, even during meets. Years now have passed and he doesn't do it anymore because I believe he finally realized this was potentially harmful and that there are better ways of stretching. When I look back and compare what I saw in the video to what our coach would do, there's no question in my mind that what's in the video is abuse and made me sick to my stomach.

 

[Sarah_the_gymnast]

But then again, a couple of my own kids were drama queens in their day. Once, when one of my kids was getting her vaccinations, she acted EXACTLY like the cheerleader in the video did. I wish I had video so you could compare the two. She was fighting them and begging them to stop. Screaming and crying. They had to hold her down. I cried watching the whole thing. She later laughed about it and laughed that I got so emotional watching her freak out.

I know this isn't related to the split stretching, but holding down a kid to give vaccinations makes their fear 100x worse.

 

[gymnastmom05]

There's a difference between a coach encouraging athletes to push themselves past their limits and forcing (physically and or emotionally) past those limits. Push my kid but when she says enough is enough, respect that. She suffers the consequences of not trying harder. If she doesn't do her splits, she doesn't do her splits. Is it mandatory for the team? If so, then the natural consequence is, "you don't have your splits therefore you didn't meet the requirements for the team". In gymnastics if her splits aren't good enough, she suffers the deductions. If someone says no, they say no. As far as vaccinations, my own child is a drama queen. I have held her down because I, as her mother, know what's best for her. I don't give a hill of beans if she does something athletically, but my responsibility is to make sure I take care of her to the best of my knowledge. Vaccinations are in her best interest, an adult pushing her to do something when she clearly said to stop won't matter in 5 years. To me, that argument isn't comparable.

 

[Sarah_the_gymnast]

There's a difference between a coach encouraging athletes to push themselves past their limits and forcing (physically and or emotionally) past those limits. Push my kid but when she says enough is enough, respect that. She suffers the consequences of not trying harder. If she doesn't do her splits, she doesn't do her splits. Is it mandatory for the team? If so, then the natural consequence is, "you don't have your splits therefore you didn't meet the requirements for the team". In gymnastics if her splits aren't good enough, she suffers the deductions. If someone says no, they say no. As far as vaccinations, my own child is a drama queen. I have held her down because I, as her mother, know what's best for her. I don't give a hill of beans if she does something athletically, but my responsibility is to make sure I take care of her to the best of my knowledge. Vaccinations are in her best interest, an adult pushing her to do something when she clearly said to stop won't matter in 5 years. To me, that argument isn't comparable.

Maybe your kid was different, but my brother needs to get medicine through a needle (IV style) and the doctors had to give him a vaccine. Until that point, he was alright with vaccines because they always took it calmly, but they held him down one time and now he has a fear of needles which is interfering with the crucial medicine.


I know this isn't what the thread is about, but holding kids down for vaccines is not okay in my book. You talk to them until they're ready.

 

[gymnastmom05]

Maybe your kid was different, but my brother needs to get medicine through a needle (IV style) and the doctors had to give him a vaccine. Until that point, he was alright with vaccines because they always took it calmly, but they held him down one time and now he has a fear of needles which is interfering with the crucial medicine.


I know this isn't what the thread is about, but holding kids down for vaccines is not okay in my book. You talk to them until they're ready.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. From my understanding, you're not a parent. Every parent was a better parent before they had kids. Every child is different. There are some things my kids have a choice about there are other things they do not. As someone who majored in Community Health, vaccines are not a choice for my minor children. They are a decision made by adults/medical professionals. My niece was scared to death of curtains for a long time from having blood drawn as a toddler. It was in her best interest. It made certain situations difficult for years but same decision would have been made if it were to be done over. Forcing a child for something absolutely necessary is different than forcing them into something that isn't.

 

[Gymmom826]

Thoughts?

Article

My 10 year old even knew they were doing it wrong. Horrible.

 

[Sarah_the_gymnast]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. From my understanding, you're not a parent. Every parent was a better parent before they had kids. Every child is different. There are some things my kids have a choice about there are other things they do not. As someone who majored in Community Health, vaccines are not a choice for my minor children. They are a decision made by adults/medical professionals. My niece was scared to death of curtains for a long time from having blood drawn as a toddler. It was in her best interest. It made certain situations difficult for years but same decision would have been made if it were to be done over. Forcing a child for something absolutely necessary is different than forcing them into something that isn't.

You're right, I'm not a parent. And vaccines are certainly essential, and you're right about the bolded part. I was discussing holding down for a shot, with no relation to this. And your daughter is probably different than my brother, so let's agree to disagree. Your child your choice

 

[duyetanh]

Me thinks unemployed is a better word

Yes. 3 words for his actions:
Sick and wrong.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

he was canned on Friday.

 

[CoachTodd]

The more that comes out about this, the more it points to poor coaching. . I hope these kids get a better coach so they don't get discouraged about their sport.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Keeping someone secure and safe during medical treatment is necessary. So yes Sarah it is at times necessary to hold "a patient down". Not only for the safety of the patient but of the health care provider.

That crud had nothing to do with safety, nor was it necessary. That is abuse.

 

[Sarah_the_gymnast]

Keeping someone secure and safe during medical treatment is necessary. So yes Sarah it is at times necessary to hold "a patient down". Not only for the safety of the patient but of the health care provider.

That crud had nothing to do with safety, nor was it necessary. That is abuse.

You're totally right. It is sometimes necessary to hold a patient down. My point was everything else should be tried before that becomes necessary (i.e. if they're having trouble (like feeling nervous, not in hysterics like daughter above), they should try to talk to them first,) but maybe I shouldn't have posted to begin with because it didn't have anything to do with the split "training" above. I think what he did was horrible.

 

[flipping_girls]

The tossing her off to the side at the end is the icing on the cake...

His tossing her aside was sickening. That poor child.

 

[azara]

Good to know the coach has been fired, what a horribly inappropriate method. IMO, painful stretching does have its time and place, but only under specific conditions. A good coach-athlete relationship, an experienced coach, a motivated and willing gymnast (i.e. they want to push themselves, not being forced by the coach), and proper technique are absolutely essential. So too are boundaries: if the gymnast is crying, she was entirely unprepared or unwilling, or she has been pushed past her breaking point. No gymnast should be in hysterics about the splits.

I once watched a video of Alina Kabaeva, a famous Russian rhythmic gymnast, describing some of her flexibility exercises. She demonstrated one and said something like, "this one the coaches do to all the children, and it makes them cry. I cried, too. And then, when we are older, we beg the coaches to keep stretching us in this way, because we want to improve." Two different mindsets are represented: the children, who are forced into it and are unprepared, and the willing, older students, who have a good coach-athlete relationship. The former, in my view, is inappropriate; the latter is perfectly acceptable, as long as correct boundaries are maintained.

 

[Tumbellina82]

Apart from the clear inappropriateness of this I don't really think painful stretching is an effective method. It has dropped out of favour, not only because of concerns about child welfare, but also greater understanding of flexibility. Improvement in flexibility isn't a physiological change, it is a question of changing where the threat of injury is perceived. Stretching is figured to work like a graduated exposure programme for phobias. This makes frequency the key to progress rather than intensity. Added to that you have strengthening at end range so that the injury threat is actually diminished. I wouldn't be keen to take practices from rhythmic as a model because: 1) I think it is strongly tradition bound, especially in Russia and Eastern Europe rather than science driven; 2) I think there is such a strong selection by body type that it overshadows a lot of the training. It is like how ballet dancers go on about special exercise regimes to build "long lean" muscle and not "bulky" muscle. From a scientific standpoint it is clear nonsense but it appears to work for them because they are selected to be ectomorph body types.

 

[sewgood]

No means no. Stop means stop. The end, period.