Parents The dreaded “not moving up” conversation

[Ilovebagels]

This is long

My daughter was on a pre level 4 team and our gym has a very strict testing policy for moving up. She was missing some of the skills for 4 during testing and the head coach decided she will be competing 3 not 4 as planned. Fine, except she was just coming off an injury during testing and now that it’s been a few weeks she has all her skills and they are looking really good (not a gymnast but look good to me). we are still four months out from competition season starting, too, which feels like a lot of time to me to clean up anything not perfect.

my daughter is devastated. She worked so hard to catch up after her injury and I hate that her hard work won’t be rewarded. I don’t even know how to explain hard work usually pays off just not this time. On top of that her hours will be decreasing (from 11 to 8) and she’s worried that she’ll lose her skills if she has to focus on level 3, which she will have to spend all summer learning. They said there will be no uptraining til after season is over and if we want to get privates to keep up her skills we can. (Which seems crazy to me).

I’ve spoken to the coach and seems like the decision is final. We did trials at two other gyms in the area who both want to put her on their level 4 teams. She worked out at these other gyms a few times and loves them both. Problem is I don’t really want to switch gyms and they are both far and not as good and super inconvenient, time wise. I also don’t want to be a gym hopper (current gym is already our second gym).

Given all this my question is - is it crazy to compete level 3 if you have all level 4 skills? Is that a common thing to compete a level lower? Will she be somehow more prepared for 4 next year by doing 3? I do see some advantages - don’t have to switch gyms, lower hours so she can do other things, maybe better chance at scoring better (although recall she never learned level 3), so not sure about that one.

What should I do?!

 

[Muddlethru]

It certainly is tough seeing our children work so hard on a goal, achieve it and not be acknowledged for it. Hard to see them disappointed and heartbroken. A couple questions, how old is your daughter and do you feel your current gym has a stronger program than the other gyms?

 

[Tmacs]

I’m sorry. That is hard. If she is older (10+), I might push it but under 10, it might be good to stay. Our gym operates under a very slow move up process. Girls compete a level below their skills and they uptrain during the spring and summer. The head coach does so much to constantly come back to basics even with her high optionals since the RO is so essential for every other move. During winter, they compete lower levels and work on fine tuning everything. It can get boring but it’s great for confidence! Two friends had girls who competed level 3 and they finished in the middle of the pack at meets. Even though they got all their level 4 skills over the summer, they repeated level 3 again and finished high... one won state. They are now going into level 4 or maybe even 5 with so much more confidence. All that to say... if the gym is good about really working in the foundations, then a level 3 year might be great. It’s hard but the girls who have moved up too fast end up quitting or getting hurt. Another friend wishes she had taken a slower road...

 

[cp13]

I think some kids will need a year to catch up at some point if they are a bit behind entering a level. My daughter was borderline between moving L3 to L4. They told her she had to repeat 3. She was upset. Then her 'repeating teammates' and her were goofing off so much that the gym reversed their decision and moved the girls to L4 in August with the warning that although they would progress, their podium placement probably would not be good. Their thinking was that the girls would be more focused if challenged rather than bored. She was happy to be able to progress but she had a pretty rough L4 season. At the end of the season, there was no question that she would repeat L4 and then she had a better season and moved on to L5 the next year and is now training L6/7. If you want to stay at the gym and they won't change their decision, then hopefully they let her continue to work on L4 skills and the extra year in L3 will make her a much stronger gymnast in L4 and maybe L3 will be the only level she needs to repeat. One thing about L4, a lot of girls repeat it. So, when you go to meets you are competing against kids in their 2nd and 3rd year of it. It's a much harder level than L3. The routines are longer and have more elements and the scoring is tougher.

 

[OrchidZ]

It doesn't sound like you have much leeway. If they have a strict qualification policy, they won't make exceptions. It does seem strange to me to do that so early, but it probably works for them. Looking at the long term, it sounds like this is the gym you'd rather she be in.. so yes, she repeats 3. If it were me, I'd probably do the privates to keep the skills. Perhaps she can test out of 4 and move up to 5 next year (if they do that kind of thing; if they don't, I wouldn't do the privates). Also, my recollection is that in some cases, it's ok to do skills that are one level up. There were always one or two girls per meet that would do that. She may not have to abandon all of the level 4 skills. If she does have to step away from some of them for a while, rest assured that she should get them back quickly when she trains them again. And, frankly, it's something that will happen as she moves forward anyway. Sometimes they'll train a skill off and on for a few years, particularly at the higher levels.

 

[Ilovebagels]

It certainly is tough seeing our children work so hard on a goal, achieve it and not be acknowledged for it. Hard to see them disappointed and heartbroken. A couple questions, how old is your daughter and do you feel your current gym has a stronger program than the other gyms?

She’s 8 and yes the current gym seems stronger, based on that she’d actually be one of the better level 4s on the team. There’s one other gym we could try but they are really good (like lots of elite/college gymnasts) and I worry she wouldn’t even make the l3 team there because she hasn’t learned the bars yet. But long term I could see is moving there, especially after this experience.

 

[Ilovebagels]

It doesn't sound like you have much leeway. If they have a strict qualification policy, they won't make exceptions. It does seem strange to me to do that so early, but it probably works for them. Looking at the long term, it sounds like this is the gym you'd rather she be in.. so yes, she repeats 3. If it were me, I'd probably do the privates to keep the skills. Perhaps she can test out of 4 and move up to 5 next year (if they do that kind of thing; if they don't, I wouldn't do the privates). Also, my recollection is that in some cases, it's ok to do skills that are one level up. There were always one or two girls per meet that would do that. She may not have to abandon all of the level 4 skills. If she does have to step away from some of them for a while, rest assured that she should get them back quickly when she trains them again. And, frankly, it's something that will happen as she moves forward anyway. Sometimes they'll train a skill off and on for a few years, particularly at the higher levels.

My question is - how many privates would it take to keep skills that she was working 10 hours a week to get? Seems crazy to pay for privates to keep what she already has. Also they are really really really expensive.

 

[Ilovebagels]

I’m sorry. That is hard. If she is older (10+), I might push it but under 10, it might be good to stay. Our gym operates under a very slow move up process. Girls compete a level below their skills and they uptrain during the spring and summer. The head coach does so much to constantly come back to basics even with her high optionals since the RO is so essential for every other move. During winter, they compete lower levels and work on fine tuning everything. It can get boring but it’s great for confidence! Two friends had girls who competed level 3 and they finished in the middle of the pack at meets. Even though they got all their level 4 skills over the summer, they repeated level 3 again and finished high... one won state. They are now going into level 4 or maybe even 5 with so much more confidence. All that to say... if the gym is good about really working in the foundations, then a level 3 year might be great. It’s hard but the girls who have moved up too fast end up quitting or getting hurt. Another friend wishes she had taken a slower road...

This gives me hope!

 

[MILgymFAM]

I’m confused. You said the other gyms would put your DD in L4, but are not as good as current gym in your OP, but then went on in a later post to say your DD is one of the strongest in her current gym and would possibly be L3 at the other gyms. Doesn’t that make the other gyms stronger? And did they evaluate her for level placement?

 

[Ilovebagels]

I’m confused. You said the other gyms would put your DD in L4, but are not as good as current gym in your OP, but then went on in a later post to say your DD is one of the strongest in her current gym and would possibly be L3 at the other gyms. Doesn’t that make the other gyms stronger? And did they evaluate her for level placement?

Great question. At the gym we tried out she would be one of the better level 4s. The one that I don’t want to switch to because it’s not a great program. At her gym she’s probably bottom half. She wants to switch no matter what because she just wants level 4. So four gyms. Here are the options - Best in our area - don’t even know if they’d take her because she doesn’t know level 3, second best is our gym, they want her in level 3, two gyms far away - they invited her to their level 4 teams. One we tried out with all last week and she was one of the best ones (some didn’t even have their kip, for example).

 

[NutterButter]

I would move her to one of the other gyms that offered her a spot on their L4 team assuming that they each have a successful optional program (and since you are changing and probably don't want to move again, you might even consider having her evaluated at the other gym you mentioned).

Your current gym has a strict move up policy with seemingly no forgiveness for injury. Sounds like she has the skills but was injured and unable to fully show her potential on a random testing day? The gym is certainly entitled to determine move ups this way but is this what you want going forward for your DD? Is this gym worth it? Do you want to be in the same situation again?

I'm sure you know this but L3 isn't even required. Where I live most enter into JO at L4 but I know it's different in other parts of the country.

For all these reasons, I'd be looking to move on.

 

[NutterButter]

Great question. At the gym we tried out she would be one of the better level 4s. The one that I don’t want to switch to because it’s not a great program. At her gym she’s probably bottom half. She wants to switch no matter what because she just wants level 4. So four gyms. Here are the options - Best in our area - don’t even know if they’d take her because she doesn’t know level 3, second best is our gym, they want her in level 3, two gyms far away - they invited her to their level 4 teams. One we tried out with all last week and she was one of the best ones (some didn’t even have their kip, for example).

I would encourage you to look beyond what you saw during in the gyms and look instead at what their optional program looks like. I would look at state meet results for compulsory and try to figure out what percentage made it to state then. I would trace a few in the highest levels and trace them back to see what their progression was. Also, when you say that she was one of the best you need to know what you are comparing to...this is the time of year where new girls join or move up. It's possible you were seeing kids who recently joined straight from rec (and therefore wouldn't have a kip yet). Your DD has already been training L4 so I would expect that she will look good compared to someone who just moved up or maybe just joined team.

The most important thing to me though would be coaching philosophy. How are the girls treated? Are they happy? How are practices structured? What does their strength/conditioning program look like? How are moveups treated - do they work with the athlete on what's best for them or have a testing/minimum score for moveup?

 

[Ilovebagels]

I would encourage you to look beyond what you saw during in the gyms and look instead at what their optional program looks like. I would look at state meet results for compulsory and try to figure out what percentage made it to state then. I would trace a few in the highest levels and trace them back to see what their progression was. Also, when you say that she was one of the best you need to know what you are comparing to...this is the time of year where new girls join or move up. It's possible you were seeing kids who recently joined straight from rec (and therefore wouldn't have a kip yet). Your DD has already been training L4 so I would expect that she will look good compared to someone who just moved up or maybe just joined team.

The most important thing to me though would be coaching philosophy. How are the girls treated? Are they happy? How are practices structured? What does their strength/conditioning program look like? How are moveups treated - do they work with the athlete on what's best for them or have a testing/minimum score for moveup?

I really appreciate the perspective! At the far away gym we tried all last week she was with the girls who competed level 3 last year. The optionals program is not amazing. Not a ton of higher levels, they do go to state, I think one maybe made it past that. That’s the thing. The only thing going for it is l4, and I am having trouble knowing if that’s enough? Girls do seem happy there and my dd was in heaven being “the best” so she is sold. I guess I’m wanting someone with experience to tell me that it’s okay to sandbag in level 3 and it will be okay in the end, or that it’s a total waste of a year and not worth it, no matter what. I need a crystal ball.

 

[OrchidZ]

My question is - how many privates would it take to keep skills that she was working 10 hours a week to get? Seems crazy to pay for privates to keep what she already has. Also they are really really really expensive.

In that case, I wouldn't do privates. She'll have a good, solid, confidence building season and should be able to get back skills back pretty quickly after the end of season. I'm sorry it didn't work out the way you'd hoped. Maybe open gym is an option to practice things her coaches think it's ok to do on her own?

 

[RTT2]

I really appreciate the perspective! At the far away gym we tried all last week she was with the girls who competed level 3 last year. The optionals program is not amazing. Not a ton of higher levels, they do go to state, I think one maybe made it past that. That’s the thing. The only thing going for it is l4, and I am having trouble knowing if that’s enough? Girls do seem happy there and my dd was in heaven being “the best” so she is sold. I guess I’m wanting someone with experience to tell me that it’s okay to sandbag in level 3 and it will be okay in the end, or that it’s a total waste of a year and not worth it, no matter what. I need a crystal ball.

I think it would be hard to know if she'd really be "sandbagging" level 3 if she hasn't competed it before. Having all of the level 3 and 4 skills right now is fantastic- still doesn't let you know how she will do competing either level. She hasn't competed at all yet, right? If you are otherwise happy with the gym, then I would have her start off competing level 3, and reevaluate at the end of the season. Also, the "best" gym in the area might not be the best fit for your kid. Sometimes gyms producing top gymnasts break at least half the kids before they ever make it to the top. Sometimes top gyms are wonderful from the lowest level all the way up to level 10, but I'd want to know more about the coaching philosophy and gym environment before deciding a gym is the best because they have some high scoring level 10s.

 

[NutterButter]

Your DD is still young...so competing L3 isn't the end of the world at all. Especially if you love your current gym. She would be 9/10 when she competes L4 then? That's not too old, not too young. So from that perspective, it's OK in the long run.

The bigger concern is how your gym determines moveups which would not be OK for me assuming I had other good options. It also would tick me off that her hours are reduced. I agree with your skepticism on the other gym too.

 

[JumpingQueen]

I think it would be hard to know if she'd really be "sandbagging" level 3 if she hasn't competed it before. Having all of the level 3 and 4 skills right now is fantastic- still doesn't let you know how she will do competing either level. She hasn't competed at all yet, right? If you are otherwise happy with the gym, then I would have her start off competing level 3, and reevaluate at the end of the season. Also, the "best" gym in the area might not be the best fit for your kid. Sometimes gyms producing top gymnasts break at least half the kids before they ever make it to the top. Sometimes top gyms are wonderful from the lowest level all the way up to level 10, but I'd want to know more about the coaching philosophy and gym environment before deciding a gym is the best because they have some high scoring level 10s.

haha that's a great point about sandbagging. she's competed in dance but right, never in gymnastics.

 

[JumpingQueen]

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[Ilovebagels]

Your DD is still young...so competing L3 isn't the end of the world at all. Especially if you love your current gym. She would be 9/10 when she competes L4 then? That's not too old, not too young. So from that perspective, it's OK in the long run.

The bigger concern is how your gym determines moveups which would not be OK for me assuming I had other good options. It also would tick me off that her hours are reduced. I agree with your skepticism on the other gym too.

Yes, the move up thing is really making me hate the gym. And, yes the hours! I guess the thing is, after all this I know i dont' want to stay here in the long run, but just trying to figure out the best thing to do for right now, and we have to decide kindof soon.

 

[Ilovebagels]

haha that's a great point about sandbagging. she's competed in dance but right, never in gymnastics.

No - never competed in dance either. But that's a good point, who knows how she will be in competition.