Parents The frustrations of move-ups!

[ellabella]

How does your gym decide who moves up? Do they have a set list of skills?

DD's gym recently did move-ups and she was asked to move, but we declined because she can't compete and I didn't feel like it was the best thing. The hours would double, the Lv 4 groups is large, etc. Lots of reasons. I'll look at the situation again in the summer and see.

One of DD's friends has been in preteam for two years and I really thought she would move up. She has more skills than DD and the others that were selected, but they didn't pick her. Her mom and I were talking because I really couldn't believe they didn't move her. She talked to the coaches and they produced this list of skills that she needed. First, if there are a required list of skills, which is perfectly reasonable, why not give that to the parents? Second, DD doesn't have many of those skills nor do the ones who moved up, so basically that's just an excuse. Third, many of those skills on the list are things they don't even work on! How do they expect this child to get a skill they don't even work on?

It's not my kid so I shouldn't be upset about it, but it just seems unfair. This might sound mean, but this little girl is on the heavy side and I fear that's the real reason.

 

[Monkeygirlsmom]

Well I have 1 kid on the Preteam (she is 9 ) an d an 8 yr old on level 4
the things that are holding older dd back is that she cannot get her BHS down and strength
Her detail however is better than younger dd!

 

[bogwoppit]

That would be very hard. If there is a skills list then it should be across the board. Coaches do not like it when parents ask "Suzy has had her bhs for longer than Jill so why didn't she get to move up?". The comparison thing is ugly, but in this circumstance what is a parent to think.

I suppose the only thing she could ask further is if they are lookking for things other than skils, like emotional maturity, ease of coaches or even size. We have to assume it's not favouritism (EEK) so then finding out exactly where the child needs to improve may be the answer as it's clearly not about skills.

I am sure you made the right choice for your little one, she doesn't need to be on team for ages without competing.

 

[UnoMas]

Move-up time is hard...and frustrating...and can cause lots of issues! Our gym has a strict requirement of 36AA at a "meet" to move up, even for levels 1-3, so there are no questions in our situation. Certainly lots of frustrations though when trying to get a 5 yr old to do every...little...detail... in the routines all in the same meet to move up a levelahhh...big sighhhh...

Anyway, I am hijacking your post, sorry. I think that guidelines for moving up SHOULD be clear to parents and gymmies. Otherwise that could make for some real stress between families and kids and that is good for no one! Those "reasons" that the other mom was given don't really seem to be the real reasons...it's a shame the gym won't just be honest with her.

Good for you for keeping your DD out of level 4 for awhile. We have a 4 yr old level 4 who just got moved up at our gym and now she is hating gym!!! She can't even compete for over a year and now she is sad when she comes to practice.

It's tough! Hope it works out for all of you though.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

There is no set skill list at our gym. Kids are moved up only on the recommendation of the coaches and it seems like our gym has great communication between the coaches. When my daughter got moved up a couple of weeks ago, every coach in the gym knew about it.
And it seemed like every coach approached me and talked about it. So yes, it is definately not a fair process like some gyms but a consensus between the coaching staff for each individual gymnast. In the past, girls were moved up ahead of my daughter who had much less skill but were older and more mature. I was ok with that because my daughter is young.However, my daughter has not suffered from being held back. If it were my daughter, I would definately ask what the reasons were for her not moving up but don't compare her to the other kids if it can be helped. I don't know if there is a set score for moving up in competition levels because we are only preteam. But to answer your question, it doesn't seem fair in some cases. I think our gym is very picky because we have limited coaching staff but very high standards. From what I see, half of the kids that do preteam at our gym do not go on to make team.

 

[ZJsMom]

DD's current gym does have a list of requirements and standards for move ups. I think it's good to have the expectations clearly expressed, but at the same time, I think the decision needs to take into consideration the individual. I have no problem with putting the thumb on the scale for an older kid. For instance, when my dd started working level 7 (this was actually at her old gym) she complained that she was expected to do a BHS on beam while another girl was learning a round off. Well the other girl was already a teenager and age-wise would fit in much better with the optionals than compulsories. Given her age too, she's probably not going to get to level 10, so moving her to 7 without a bhs on beam made perfect sense to me. I have no problem with a general rule that level 7s need a bhs on beam and individual exceptions to the rule being made when warranted. I think ideally, the coaches should take into consideration age, maturity, work ethic, fear issues, committment and other individual things when making these decisions. I think this is where parent input should be allowed since we know our kids better than anybody.

 

[Bobby]

What a shame for that little girl - since it sounds like she would really have liked to move up. You'd have to hope her size wasn't a deciding factor!! - fairness and equity aside, you'd think she'd have more to gain than most by increasing her training which might really have had a positive impact on her size.
I do think a really professional gym wuuld have fairly clear, trasnparent, and readily available criteria for moving kids up - with any exceptions only in favour of moving kids where they want to be rather than obstructing their progress.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Move ups are not always (in fact probably not even that often) based on a set criteria of skills.

Coaches look at training, effort, strength, flexibility, ability to cope with the longer hours, ability to cope with the added pressure, age, team size, behavior, fear and so many things. But most of these things are hard to give an objective measure for. So this is why you often get a list of skills when the question is asked. Its to have an objective set of requirements. But, its usually not what move ups are really based on.

 

[emorymom]

I'm not sure what her weight is, but it may be an issue for various reasons. E.g. -- the people spotting the level 4's, do any of them have any injuries? I have heard a coach on rec registration day at one gym say flat out to the rec parents "I am not spotting any kids over Y pounds because of X injury, they will have to go into another coach's class but even if those are filled they cannot be in mine."

Or maybe there is a key level 4 skill on bars, or her backhandspring perhaps, that they don't think she will get timely, because of her weight?

It may be something that can be dealt with with goal setting or outside gym conditioning, but they are afraid to participate in a dialog so instead they just hold her back. Not good.

 

[nevertooold]

this little girl is on the heavy side and I fear that's the real reason.

This is not uncommon. Take a look at the composition of the girls already on team. Are they mostly all the same age/size, do they mainly have the same body types? Some gyms only pick a certain type of gymnast for their team. Some prefer very tiny girls, others look for good upper body strength, some like "fearless" girls, some like "focused" girls, whatever their preference is. Other gyms you will see a wide age range and range of body types and personalities at the same level.

Every gym will run their program their own way, but if you see that your child (your child's teammate) doesn't FIT with the type of child on team at your gym, you (they) may need to look for a gym who is looking for that type of child.

 

[emacmommy]

We've tried to set an in between carrot for our move ups within our compulsory program. It seems to be working, but it can be a bit ambiguous to the parents. We go by competency of their current level, which means we marginally go by scores (although a specific score is not mentioned in our move up policy). At least consistent 34.0's is what is in our minds as coaches. If after state (which is Dec for us) they are achieving this, we then reward them by inviting them to an extra day of practice with the next level up team, so they are fully emersing themselves in only level up skills at least once a week. They also must have all the qualities Aussie-coach shared in his pp. If they are slacking, not committed, poor attitude/work ethic, not paying attention to their competitive level details, etc. we hold that extra practice back until they prove to us they are worthy. Hate to use that word, worthy, but it seems to be working. Only until they show us they can successfully do all the skills without spot, and making them most of the time, at the next level do we teach the routines and throw them into a meet before our entire season ends in March. We only have a handful this year that have the potential to compete two different levels before the season is ended, but last year we had almost a whole squad make the jump together. It works for us since our numbers are still reasonable to juggle in this manner. We aim for a 10 to 1 training ratio for our team girls when we are on individual events and we so far are at about 8 to 1 when we have all levels in at the same time. We have two senior team coaches, and one junior, and the boys team coach we pull from while everyone practices.

The only time we look at physical attributes, such as weight is if it is a safety issue to push a girl further than her body will allow. The jump from L3 to L4 has the BH and our mid-season moveup (which is now) is much more progressive than when we move up for summer training. If I felt as a coach that someone's physical attribute was going to need more time to work the skill without impact-type injuries, then I would hold off until summer to move up, rather than to just throw them right into working the skills midseason with higher reps which creates unnecessary stress to the body. Also, I never want to push an athlete too far than she is mentally able to be successful. A few skills at each level if pushed to fast can create mental issues I don't want to have to unnecessarily deal with later on up the levels. BHS happens to be one of those physical and mental skills too.

As for the little girl not invited up, in my book, if she has the BHS and the endurance to put it at the end of a routine, can pullover, backhip circle and mill circle consistently within reason, has the other non skill related criteria mentioned by aussie-coach, then I would have invited her up.

I'm also a big believer in looking at each child individually, such as ZJsMom's post. The carrot above doesn't work as well with the middle school and up age gymnasts, except a few of mine still. Part of that for us is that our Level 6's and Optionals work out together right now due to team sizes. We only have two 6's and 4 Optionals. They also don't necessarily want more time in the gym. Motivating this group to "want more" out of their gymnastics is a bit more difficult.

Hope that helps, but I would try and open up more dialogue with the coaches at your gym to explain their reasoning some. Don't confront, just be "curious", and ask to be enlightened.

 

[cathiann]

Move ups are not always (in fact probably not even that often) based on a set criteria of skills.

Coaches look at training, effort, strength, flexibility, ability to cope with the longer hours, ability to cope with the added pressure, age, team size, behavior, fear and so many things. But most of these things are hard to give an objective measure for. So this is why you often get a list of skills when the question is asked. Its to have an objective set of requirements. But, its usually not what move ups are really based on.

I'm pretty sure that's the way our gym does it too. There's never been a published list of requirements--the last few years they've had meeting with the coach, parent and gymnast too--the gymnast says what she wants to do next year and the coach puts her/his input in--and a decision made.

 

[ellabella]

After telling the child no on Monday, they then told her on Wednesday she could move up. Huh? Her mom was happy they are giving her a chance, but confused as to why on Monday she didn't have the skills and two days later she does. Very strange.

The gym just seems to be unprofessional in how they handle move-ups. The girls showed up to practice last Monday and were told at the end of practice "You are now a level 4". The coach told the kids, not the parents. My child just turned 5. We left the gym and she told me in the car she was now a level 4. She didn't know what days they practiced, what time they practiced etc. And I wasn't even sure they meant her. I had to turn around and go back and figure out what was going on.

It seems reasonable to have a short conversation with each parent and let them know where there child stands. If it's not skills holding the kid back, but something else, then just say that. Especially with kids a little bit older they may work on what's holding them back if told.

I'm glad DD's friend is getting her chance and in all I think we made the right decision for us. Though I will admit DD has been a bit frustrated this week because they moved up a bunch of little kids and the coach has had to spend a lot of time with them and DD has been kind of on her own. She's now the mature one in the group! That's a change!