WAG Transitioning to Middle School with Gymnastics

[OzZee]

Like Margo just don't understand your schooling system.
So how big are your middle/high schools? How do they offer all these different levels of so many different classes?
Do you have a core national curriculum?
I'm guessing your schools must be much larger than ours.
We have streamed classes in high school (years 7-12) but it's still just eg English then A-D classes. (And in years 7 and 8 there is a single 'advanced class' and the rest are mixed ability). A little different in years 11 and 12 when they do their final exams but even then I could be sure most schools don't offer as many subjects in total as some of you are describing at middle school.

 

[skschlag]

No National Curriculum, although we do have a push called common core. Has most people up in arms. (Big soapbox if that debate gets going lol).

Middle/high school vary in size. I think D's middle school, so grades 6-8 is about 900 kids. A's high school (grades 9-12) has almost 2,000.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Like Margo just don't understand your schooling system.
So how big are your middle/high schools? How do they offer all these different levels of so many different classes?
Do you have a core national curriculum?
I'm guessing your schools must be much larger than ours.
We have streamed classes in high school (years 7-12) but it's still just eg English then A-D classes. (And in years 7 and 8 there is a single 'advanced class' and the rest are mixed ability). A little different in years 11 and 12 when they do their final exams but even then I could be sure most schools don't offer as many subjects in total as some of you are describing at middle school.

I was wondering the same thing. This might be an off topic but I'm curious - how many different level classes are offered for one grade in one school? Does every school have different level classes for kids who are on the same grade? How are the kids chosen to those "gifted" classes? It sounds so funny because we don't have anything like that and when I just think about the possibility of having separate classes it makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm sure that would cause some serious drama and make those "ungifted" kids feel really bad. We do have remedial instruction for students who need some extra help to keep up with others but they are still part of the normal class and only go to see their special teacher a few times a week to have one-on-one time with the teacher. There is nothing special for gifted kids, except occasional extra work in math etc if they complete their mandatory work during class and the teacher wants to give them little challenges. The kids don't even get grades until they are on 4th grade (age 10-11).

In high school (ages 16-19) the students have mandatory courses in every subject and after that they choose the subjects they want to focus on and then they have 1-5 advanced courses in each of those subjects. Most kids choose 3 or 4 subjects but some may study up to 8 different subjects. Math is the only subject that they can choose at the beginning of high school if they want to study it on more basic level from start to finish or take the advanced classes from early on.

We don't have any national or even school specific testing for kids until 9th grade (age 15-16) when they have national exams on math, Finnish, English, chemistry and physics but those grades don't really matter. After that they have finals in high school and that's it.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

we are a bit different, apart from this governments bee in their bonnet about testing every whip and flip, our school system is designed to finish at 16.

It has only just been changed to have compulsory education OR training to 18 (for training read underpaid work and day release).

It used to be a small percentage carried on post 16 in education ( when I went it was 15%). So we have all subjects to 13, options at 13 (effectively student chooses a more science / humanities / arts based path) exams at 16.

Then at 16-18 1-4 subjects are studied in much greater depth ( eg I took double maths, physics and Chemistry), then at University usually 1 much more defined subject is taken, eg medieval history, particle physics, Human Biology etc. We don't do modular courses per se.

Your schools do seem massive. Pinks secondary school has around 1200 on role split into 5 year groups (11-16), each year has 2 "populations" on average there are about 30-35 in each class. Maths, English, foreign languages, PE and science are then "set"on ability, the other subjects are taught in the tutor group.

So would your accelerated classes be equivalent to our "top set"?

Is there mobility in and out of these classes or is a completely different programme ?

 

[strawberries]

I was wondering the same thing. This might be an off topic but I'm curious - how many different level classes are offered for one grade in one school? Does every school have different level classes for kids who are on the same grade? How are the kids chosen to those "gifted" classes? It sounds so funny because we don't have anything like that and when I just think about the possibility of having separate classes it makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm sure that would cause some serious drama and make those "ungifted" kids feel really bad. We do have remedial instruction for students who need some extra help to keep up with others but they are still part of the normal class and only go to see their special teacher a few times a week to have one-on-one time with the teacher. There is nothing special for gifted kids, except occasional extra work in math etc if they complete their mandatory work during class and the teacher wants to give them little challenges. The kids don't even get grades until they are on 4th grade (age 10-11).

In high school (ages 16-19) the students have mandatory courses in every subject and after that they choose the subjects they want to focus on and then they have 1-5 advanced courses in each of those subjects. Most kids choose 3 or 4 subjects but some may study up to 8 different subjects. Math is the only subject that they can choose at the beginning of high school if they want to study it on more basic level from start to finish or take the advanced classes from early on.

We don't have any national or even school specific testing for kids until 9th grade (age 15-16) when they have national exams on math, Finnish, English, chemistry and physics but those grades don't really matter. After that they have finals in high school and that's it.

I sure wish we didn't have grades for kids under 10-11, and I wish we didn't have testing until 15-16...and that those tests didn't really matter. It just seems to put the focus in the wrong place, and I'm pretty sure that place isn't learning.

Anyhow, if I were in charge, that's how I'd do it.

 

[rosiekat]

Standards are more or less similar but are specific to and are set by each state in the USA. School sizes vary widely, but I'm in a major city and our public high schools are mostly around 3000 or even more. (I find that to be ridiculously large, but no one's asked me.) DS's elementary school is K-5th and it's around 400.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

wow @rosiekat that is huge !

I googled it, our largest school in the country has 2,492 pupils!

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

As far as classes and deciding who gets what classes, it's all based on testing and teacher recommendations. At DDs middle school there are 4 levels (with fancy names so the kids aren't supposed to know where they stand, I suppose). The kids are assigned a "team" (level). Let's call them red, blue, green and yellow for simplicity. Red team has all advanced classes and double accelerated in math. Blue team has double accelerated math, and may be in some of the other advanced classes but not all. Green team has accelerated math (but not double, so technically one year above grade level or "honors" math) and usually no other advanced classes. Yellow team has the lowest test results and no advanced classes at all. Red team is our "gifted" program, DD1 was in this level. DD2 is in the blue team.
The school offers standard math, accelerated math and double accelerated math. DA means they're doing prealgebra in 6th, algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th. Standard math has them doing 6th grade math in 6th, 7th grade math in 7th and prealgebra in 8th.
The school offers regular and advanced classes in LA (English), history, and something else.
Our school has around 1100 students.

 

[MILgymFAM]

The thing with the US is that there really is no standardization, common core aside. My 9th grader had been to nine schools before homeschooling and my 7th grader six schools. At each there was just about a different... well, everything. From school size, to class size, to "tracks", to tests, to homework, to gifted education (or lack thereof), to the arts, and sports. Each and every school was a self contained culture. My 6th grader, at 10 years old, had ridiculous amounts of homework (2 hours + per night). My 9th grader had substantially less when she was in 6th grade (about 15 minutes)- different state, different school. I've seen it where there is no differentiation to each grade level being stratified into four or five different tracks.

It has been our experience almost everywhere, however, that kids are tracked early. Coming into a new district it is was almost impossible to get the girls into anything above an average track, as those classes were often filled by the end of the previous school year. Same problem with electives.

 

[OzZee]

Wow yes so much larger than our schools. We have 100-150 per year in the girls secondary school (yrs7-12)
So surprise gym mum does that mean most kids are in an 'advanced' class of some sort? So really it's just graded classes.
To me if more than a small percent are doing 'above grade' then the average expectation needs to be raised.

Seems a lot can be missed out if you get graded wrong and no way of moving back up. For example if you don't even do pre algebra until 8th grade how are you ever going to get to a decent level of maths?
Ours do pre algebra in primary (3-6) then algebra (and geometry and all areas of maths, though think calculus doesn't start to yr 10ish) from year 7.
So all areas get covered, just how well and quickly depending on the class level. With the top classes covering extra material.
For the final two years you can then take extra units in some subjects (so for instance 3 unit advanced maths you do the regular two unit course plus another unit of higher level stuff. Guess that would be what you call college level maths).
But nothing gives extra credit for high school or college or anything like that. It's just because you want to do it.

Margo we no longer have year 10 exams.
We do have national testing in years 3,5,7,9, but it's pretty low key, most teachers don't believe in it so it's a very low focus. The marks are more for the school than the individual.
Yes there are those that study for them but most do a couple of practice tests in class and that's it. 4-5 short tests over 3 days.
I guess as my kids have never worried about them or wasted time over them I quite like than as it gives me the assurance they are in a decent place nationally and the school hasn't missed anything major.
So then we just have the final year 12 exams (and class tests/assessments).

 

[duyetanh]

I think the bottom line is what kind of kid do you have.
No one knows your child better than you.
I have not read all the replies, sorry. But I would at least put her in a few GT classes. Put her where you feel her strengths are. I know my kid would do worse in a regular language arts class, because for her, knowledge is power. I swear, sometimes I don't even think GT students should have grades.....

 

[Iwannabemargo]

I think its interesting that most people don't like the "over testing" of children in school, its a big topic here atm with many parents keeping their children home during national testing week in protest over the new tests, and yet the country whose education system is considered the best in the world ( shout out to @gymisforeveryone ) Finland, don't test !

So interesting how everyone's system is so different.

The lack of national curriculum must be an absolute Nightmare, especially for mobile families like yours @MILgymFAM. At least here you can move round the country and pretty much pick up where you left off.

 

[MILgymFAM]

The lack of national curriculum must be an absolute Nightmare, especially for mobile families like yours @MILgymFAM. At least here you can move round the country and pretty much pick up where you left off.

Yup. One of the many reasons that we've moved on to homeschooling. My girls have gone from place to place and basically ended up both six months ahead and six months behind, depending. They've not had trouble catching up, but being ahead was incredibly boring and not conducive to a good school year. Our educational system is a mess anyway, and I'm just glad we have the option to opt out.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

I think its interesting that most people don't like the "over testing" of children in school, its a big topic here atm with many parents keeping their children home during national testing week in protest over the new tests, and yet the country whose education system is considered the best in the world ( shout out to @gymisforeveryone ) Finland, don't test !

So interesting how everyone's system is so different.

The lack of national curriculum must be an absolute Nightmare, especially for mobile families like yours @MILgymFAM. At least here you can move round the country and pretty much pick up where you left off.

Yup, no need for testing when teachers get so high level of education and there is a national curriculum to follow. It doesn't matter where you live - it may be a village of 1000 people in the middle of nowhere and school of 50 students or a big town of 500 000 and a school of 800 students and the education all the students get is pretty much the same. No private schools, no gifted programs.

 

[Seeker]

Finland's style of education would be extremely hard for a country the size of the US to emulate due to the size of our country and the current model of educational funding (a complicated mix of federal, state and local funding sources).
There are also other reasons (widely varying poverty rates being one...), but geography & money are biggies.

Geographically, Finland is smaller than California so would be much easier to manage the school systems there than it would be to do the same here. Our schools are such a hot mess, it would take years to unravel -- even if the powers that be could agree to a plan. Which they won't. Thank God we do have educational choices as my daughter would be (was) miserable and woefully underserved in a brick & mortar school (the school systems where we live are horrible).

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Finland's style of education would be extremely hard for a country the size of the US to emulate due to the size of our country and the current model of educational funding (a complicated mix of federal, state and local funding sources).
There are also other reasons (widely varying poverty rates being one...), but geography & money are biggies.

Geographically, Finland is smaller than California so would be much easier to manage the school systems there than it would be to do the same here. Our schools are such a hot mess, it would take years to unravel -- even if the powers that be could agree to a plan. Which they won't. Thank God we do have educational choices as my daughter would be (was) miserable and woefully underserved in a brick & mortar school (the school systems where we live are horrible).

I agree, there must be thousand pieces in that puzzle! It will be a long battle to change anything. For my ears it sounds like something has to change there though. It feels unfair that poor kids are automatically given less opportunities and more likely to end up in schools that are not as good as they should be.

Finland has not always been like this though. Finland had private schools until 1970s and the funding came from very different sources. Until 1970s Finland's education system wasn't really good and we were just average in the comparisons. There wasn't national curriculum and the rich people put their children in better schools and poor kids quit school after 4 years. For example my grandmother quit school at 10 because she had 10 siblings and they were poor.

The national curriculum and change in funding of schools changed everything. 9 year long education became mandatory for everyone. Now anyone who works hard can get masters degree, no matter how rich or poor you or your parents are.

 

[z2akids]

For the OP, I love that my DD enjoys her sport. I know that she loves being in the gym more than just about anything and I can see her continuing at least through high school. However, ultimately it is a child' extracurricular activity. A very intense and consuming one to be sure. She may someday decide to coach, but otherwise there really isn't any sort of longterm career/way to monetize gymnastics for more than a couple of people every 4 years. College scholarships exist, but the number of scholarships compared to the number of girls who start out competing at Level 3 or 4 is so infinitesimal that it does not make sense to look at gymnastics as a way to a free college education.

What it comes down to for our family is that school will not be sacrificed for gymnastics. Sure, a Friday meet once or twice a season. But, I would not significantly change my DD's academic track for a child's activity.

 

[flipster]

It is worth to mention that it is next to impossible to obtain permission to home-school in many European countries, not that many people pursue that option because education system is pretty solid there, but some of us in the US follow custom curriculum or spend extra hours on other activities. Many European governments look closely at home education settings, if allow it at all. Some states here are more lenient then others when it comes to homeschooling; it is a fact, some are pretty tight, but it is good to have options.

 

[flipster]

Finland does provide excellent education opportunities. It would be a loss to miss that experience.

 

[gracyomalley]

This times 10. My "gifted" sophomore just failed 2 classes. sigh. college algebra and biotechnology (we are still waiting on AP lit and health). Of course, he also has an IEP, so he has a gifted plan and an IEP, so no one has a clue what to do with him. Hopefully he can pull it together next year....

my 2E rising sophomore son is presently struggling with whether to take AP capstone program (requiring 7+ AP courses) starting next year - he has a 504 (qualified for an IEP but attends a charter school and they are very accomodating and flexible so went with the 504 instead...) and is such a perfectionist that his tests take him more than double time EVEN when he has all the answers correct in the first 30 minutes...he'll try to prove his geometry several ways to "make sure" he's right, for instance...he also is trying to balance trying for Level 10 (due to age, not skill set...) in gym and whether he wants to push musically for a solo violin career or just shoot for chamber and relax...

I don't know what to suggest for him and the school is set up to allow motivated kids to push as far as they want, but his advisor also has his testing results, so wonders if he can succeed even with the double time he gets on all standardized testing....what I notice most is that he can't really balance trying to excel in everything at once (duh) and ends up petting his cat and watching classical music and gymnastics videos while thinking about astrophysics for hours when he gets overwhelmed...now he's behind in his advanced humanities course and will be up until midnight all week to finish it on time....which means me too, as his 504 includes dictating/proofreader for papers (severe dyslexia...)...

My DD is classic mod gifted...99% on testing but not 99.99999%. School is easy, quickly done, she's done all high school courses for 8th grade, and will take double math and science next year. Now that gym is done for her she spends hours writing each day...she's intense but not nearly as quirky as her brother - and much more flexible....She homeschooled though 7th grade, and honestly never worked to her ability, but did get exposed to in depth learning and great literature, music, art, experimental science, etc. She entered 8th grade and placed 2 years ahead of where she was working and has excelled in those classes, is getting extra credit in her electives because of her writing ability, etc. She loves school and learning and its easy for her. She attends the same charter as my son, and will slide through AP capstone, could graduate early, etc. She naturally chose to drop music when she realized she wasn't passionate about it and although good, not interested in being great, gave up gym and similarly doesn't push herself like her brother.

I think kids like DD do fine with gym and tough schedules - but unfortunately, its often the ones like DS who want to do it all....

I bring my kids up because they weren't in mainstream gifted track in elementary and middle school but in high school (essentially HS for DD due to all classes being at the high school this year other than electives and health) have been able to jump in where they are ready/willing to do the work. Sure, both have had to double up to get to calculus by junior year - but they are choosing to do that as high school kids, not being tracked there as 6th graders. Not to say its wrong at all to accelerate early - again, I kept them home and stimulated until high school level - but its not at all impossible to "ramp it up" later and accelerate. And gifted does not mean easy...