WAG Triple Twisting Yurchenko: Who and When?

[rodneybackhandspring]

I'm wondering about when we will see a triple twisting yurchenko. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Mykayla might do it but I'm starting to think otherwise. Maybe its not possible with current equipment. Well, anyway, this the Triple Twisting Yuchenko Forum

 

[sleeplessinnewyork]

I definitely think it is possible with current equipment. After all, Hak Seon Yang preformed it in London, and is still executing it very well. I would not be surprised if it were soon done in WAG as well. I know McKayla Maroney, Simone Biles and Aliya Mustafina are training it. I think McKayla Maroney will be the first, and I was very surprised to hear that Aliya Mustafina is training it, as she only competed dty, and her twisting form is erm... original. She does have good repulsion, though.

One question though: people have been saying it will be called the Maroney. However, isn't it already named the Yang after 2012?

 

[rodneybackhandspring]

I definitely think it is possible with current equipment. After all, Hak Seon Yang preformed it in London, and is still executing it very well. I would not be surprised if it were soon done in WAG as well. I know McKayla Maroney, Simone Biles and Aliya Mustafina are training it. I think McKayla Maroney will be the first, and I was very surprised to hear that Aliya Mustafina is training it, as she only competed dty, and her twisting form is erm... original. She does have good repulsion, though.

One question though: people have been saying it will be called the Maroney. However, isn't it already named the Yang after 2012?

Yes but it will be named something different in WAG

 

[rodneybackhandspring]

I know McKayla Maroney, Simone Biles and Aliya Mustafina are training it. I think McKayla Maroney will be the first, and I was very surprised to hear that Aliya Mustafina is training it, as she only competed dty, and her twisting form is erm... original. She does have good repulsion, though.

Same can be said for Nabieva

 

[iwannacoach]

I'm gonna say it can be done, that it's a lot harder than the 5/2 twist, and I wouldn't want to be the wrists on the kid that does it. Maybe it's (the wrist problem) going to provoke a wave of improvements in wrist supports and the shape of the table.

Anyway..... It can be done, but it's gonna hurt.

 

[Gymnast_Tor]

I think Simone, McKayla, and MyKayla all have a good shot of training it because I knew that Simone was training hers in the pit. Somehow I think that Simone will get it because shes the only one ive heard thats training it seriously but like she said on her ask.fm when I asked her, it's not a competition and whoever gets it first, congrats to them. Haha

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

Vault is DD's best and favorite event (working yurchenko full right now) so we are anxiously awaiting for someone, any of those gymnasts to compete a triple!!!

 

[Nico]

I'm gonna say it can be done, that it's a lot harder than the 5/2 twist, and I wouldn't want to be the wrists on the kid that does it. Maybe it's (the wrist problem) going to provoke a wave of improvements in wrist supports and the shape of the table.

Anyway..... It can be done, but it's gonna hurt.

I've always had an interest in wrist pain and wrist injuries. I can imagine that a harder contact is made by doing a TTY than with a 2,5 TY or DTY.
Can you explain a bit more how the difference in 2,5 or 3 twists will affect the wrist?

Thanks!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I definitely think it is possible with current equipment. After all, Hak Seon Yang preformed it in London, and is still executing it very well. I would not be surprised if it were soon done in WAG as well. I know McKayla Maroney, Simone Biles and Aliya Mustafina are training it. I think McKayla Maroney will be the first, and I was very surprised to hear that Aliya Mustafina is training it, as she only competed dty, and her twisting form is erm... original. She does have good repulsion, though.

One question though: people have been saying it will be called the Maroney. However, isn't it already named the Yang after 2012?

Aliya also competed an Amanar (2 1/2).

 

[iwannacoach]

I've always had an interest in wrist pain and wrist injuries. I can imagine that a harder contact is made by doing a TTY than with a 2,5 TY or DTY.
Can you explain a bit more how the difference in 2,5 or 3 twists will affect the wrist?

Thanks!

I don't claim to know everything about twisting (dunno slaps hands over mouth and Jbs convulses silently in laughter while coachp, coachtodd, and others suppress grins) but here's my thinking behind what I posted.

It seems when a gymnast twists their body tilts (off the vertical axis) to the side which effectively shortens the salto radius. The tilt increases slightly with each 1/2 twist that's added, so a 1/1 twist will tilt slightly, a 2/1 will show more off axis tilt, a 5/2 slightly more, and a 3/1 just a bit more still. So as you progress into twisting your salto radius becomes shorter and shorter which makes the salto rotate more easily.

An additional feature of twisting, if you teach them the way I do (whoops I didn't mean for you to do that), is the motion from the set follow through to the twist acceleration uses a transition from a slight and tight arch to a hollow position, which increases very slightly as the multiples of 1/2 twists increase. So a 1/1 has very little transition motion and a 3/1 has quite a bit..... more than does a 5/2. This transition motion that facilitates twisting also facilitates rotation so a 3/1 saltos more freely than does a 1/1.

So these two forces alone require a block that seeks to limit the salto and increase the height to allow decimal fractions of a second longer in the air to get the twist complete. That block is going to present a heavy load to the gymnast wrists, and take place at a slightly lower angle above horizontal.... and that's hard on the wrists.

Just a few quick statements that may or may not fit with other coaches models.......

An Amanar lands facing away from the able and that allows the last 1/2 to take place in a more extended body position and points the feet in the right direction to counter salto forces at the moment of landing. Maroney seems to know this and when she tried to adjust that body position to nail her second vault in London she extended outward just a bit too far or
too soon.... you'll have to ask her which.

Twisting is the result of refined manipulations of the forces created during the punch, or block for vaulting. So if you've refined as far as you can, the only means available to increase the twist is to create more of theses forces during the block. So even more weight/impact for a 3/1 than needed for a 5/2.

Add all of this together and your result is more work for the wrists to do the 3/1...... maybe too much for wrists to endure over a prolonged training period with the equipment exactly as it is.

So if I don't have it figured out I'll welcome any offerings of wisdom.....

 

[SuperGirlmlm]

If you watch McKayla's Amanar, she waits longer than Simone when it comes to starting the twist. I think it'll be easier for Simone to get the TTY because she has a lot more room in the air after finishing the twist. She's pretty much just waiting for the mat as opposed to McKayla finishing her twist just before she hits the mat.
In my opinion, I think it's going to be Aliya. She has a great DTY. I know her form is unique as said in post above, but she easily finished the twist with plenty of time to spot her landing.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

well, i'd like to simplify. i think the unintended consequences of adding more on to a vault is the result of the athlete giving it just a bit more. in giving it a bit more, they hit the table even harder causing the wrists to flex even further.

and Supergirlmlm, it will NOT be Aliya. she has the worst technique of everyone currently competing. her helicopter legs during the twist could raise an aircraft. and it was what caused her bad landing at European's where she suffered the ruptured ACL.

so no, it won't be Aliya. Biles or Maroney. either only needs to compete it successfully ONE TIME. i believe that both of them could do it ONCE right now.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

If you watch McKayla's Amanar, she waits longer than Simone when it comes to starting the twist. I think it'll be easier for Simone to get the TTY because she has a lot more room in the air after finishing the twist. She's pretty much just waiting for the mat as opposed to McKayla finishing her twist just before she hits the mat.
In my opinion, I think it's going to be Aliya. She has a great DTY. I know her form is unique as said in post above, but she easily finished the twist with plenty of time to spot her landing.

this is just a mechanical illusion of what is precisely taking place. AND each of them have a different body type from each other. everything is not what you think which is appearing visually.

i'm too tired today to go in to a biomechanical dissertation. suffice, just watch the entry on to the table of both gymnasts. not sure i'll ever see Maroney's entry ever again in my lifetime.

 

[Nico]

Very interesting thoughts iwannacoach!
So more twists need a more agressive block, sounds logic.
Do you think the turning point is between 5/2 and 3/1 twists?
It would be very interesting to messure the increasing (?) forces of the different amounts of twists...

 

[Nico]

Very interesting thoughts iwannacoach!
So more twisting needs a more agressive block, sounds logic.
Do you think the turning point is between 5/2 and 3/1 twists?
It would be very interesting to messure the increasing (?) forces of the different amounts of twists...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

not really the block, as i said. it is more about the entry angle and then the block that follows.

both Biles and Maroney have sufficient block/rise/rotation. i doubt they get 'stronger'. what will change is the entry angle i believe. look at Kohei starting from 1>2>3 twists. his entry angle or turnover on to the table is just about as extreme as i have ever seen. the only other gymnast that get in that low and fast is Prudonova on that hand double front.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Anyone have a video link to yang's tty?

I checked out YouTube, but never found it...just the wicked triple twisting front entry. Holy smokes!!

 

[sleeplessinnewyork]

AAAAHHH! And THAT is exactly what happens when you try to post at 4:00 AM ( it says 2 but different timezone). Mixing up triple twists. Pshhh. I guess that's what I get for not watching videos. Yang had triple twisiting fhs entry. Oh my god. So embarassing.

However, Uchimira attempted one at Japan Nationals in 2010. His legs are really lucky to still be functioning, but other than that it isn't so bad.

 

[rodneybackhandspring]

Aliya also competed an Amanar (2 1/2).

With helicopter legs. Scary!

 

[Bumblebee462]

I'm wondering about when we will see a triple twisting yurchenko. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Mykayla might do it but I'm starting to think otherwise. Maybe its not possible with current equipment. Well, anyway, this the Triple Twisting Yuchenko Forum

You know what's weird there have been a few girls that have done the triples in practice and just hasn't competed them. My daughter use to throw them and make it all the way around ... the gym has it on video. She just never competed it. She was an Elite ... but her injuries kept her from progressing.