Coaches Twisting Again

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Alverna

Coach
Proud Parent
I know there is a lot out there on twisting but I can't find the answer to my specific question (or maybe I did but couldn't see it for all the other information out there).

I'm in the process of researching twisting to better understand the process. My understanding is that whether forwards or backwards twisting it seems that it is largely agreed that we want gymnasts to twist the same direction - either always to their left or right, generally whatever is the most comfortable for the gymnast.

I was reading Championship Gymnastics by Gerald George and he states "if the right side of the body is shortened while executing a forward somersault skill the resulting direction of the twist will be to the performers left" and "if the right side of the body is shortened while executing a backward somersault skill the resulting direction of the twist will be to the performers right".

So my question is if twisting backwards for a twist that will twist to the right the performer needs to shorten the right side of the body by pulling the right arm down and/or across the body. But what about forwards twisting if we want to twist to the right (to keep to our rule that we want forwards and backwards twisting to always twist in the same direction)? Based on the above quote from Gerald George then do we ask our gymnast to pull their arms to the left so they then twist to the right if doing a forward somersault?

See I am confused and would really like clarification. I'm sure I've missed something and the more I look the more questions arise.
 
simply, and a great question.

it is the concept of conservation and borrowing.

right twist as example: when doing a somi backwards, you shorten the body by dropping/tilting the right arm and to the side. or by bending the right arm at the elbow. or both. this will cause the body to twist right. this happens even if the left arm stays up.

forward somi is opposite. if you twist right, you will drop/tilt the left arm to the side. or bend the left elbow. or both. this will shorten the left side of the body allowing the right side to "borrow" that weight allowing the body to twist right. this happens even if the right arm stays up. think handspring full on vault.

but the arm never stays up of course (except on handspring fulls or more on vault). this inhibits rotation/somi. at some point, both arms come in to the body and come back out again. even when using straight arm technique like in trampolining. the arms come in straight and come back out straight.

this should open up a whole can of questions. this will be fun. we can get in to advanced twisting techniques. fun, fun, fun! :)

coaches, have you ever seen an athlete attempt to twist right, leave the right arm up, and bring the left arm across the body and only finish in 3/4 and roll out on to their left shoulder on to the mat? lol. the answer is above!
 
I'm blond and female and that's my excuse for being no good with my left and my right (and twisting). ☺️

The link shows one of my gymnasts. She is just starting to twist. So in this video she twists to the right? Yes? She shortens her left side and pulls her left arm across her body. Should her head remain neutral? Or should she look the way she is twisting? Any tips for her?



I hope the link works.

She is about to start twisting for back Saltos as well.
 
@dunno | I have Gerald George's book as well, and I have read it through at least four times. However, the part that @Alverna states still confuses me a bit. I understand the concept of biaxial rotation well, but how in the world does the body shortening (arm drop) technique reverse between backward and forward saltos?

Here's a hypothetical situation: A gymnast is trying to execute a forward half twisting layout somersault in - backward full twisting layout somersault out (two flips, 1.5 twists stretched). If that gymnast was a left twister, they would drop their right arm first during the front half (barani) phase, right? But then they would be in position for the back full midair. Would they keep their arm position? Or change it somehow, since backward counterclockwise (left) rotations call for a left arm drop?

I love twisting skills, and I am also anxiously watching this thread for crazy twisting debates. :p
 
I'm blond and female and that's my excuse for being no good with my left and my right (and twisting). ☺️

The link shows one of my gymnasts. She is just starting to twist. So in this video she twists to the right? Yes? She shortens her left side and pulls her left arm across her body. Should her head remain neutral? Or should she look the way she is twisting? Any tips for her?



I hope the link works.

She is about to start twisting for back Saltos as well.


yes, right twist. no, she does not "pulls her left arm across her body". she drops her left elbow/bends arm.

head should remain neutral and then "spot" slightly to the left shoulder and then look forward on the horizon to finish.
 
@dunno | I have Gerald George's book as well, and I have read it through at least four times. However, the part that @Alverna states still confuses me a bit. I understand the concept of biaxial rotation well, but how in the world does the body shortening (arm drop) technique reverse between backward and forward saltos?

Here's a hypothetical situation: A gymnast is trying to execute a forward half twisting layout somersault in - backward full twisting layout somersault out (two flips, 1.5 twists stretched). If that gymnast was a left twister, they would drop their right arm first during the front half (barani) phase, right? But then they would be in position for the back full midair. Would they keep their arm position? Or change it somehow, since backward counterclockwise (left) rotations call for a left arm drop?

I love twisting skills, and I am also anxiously watching this thread for crazy twisting debates. :p

Aero, i'm old. so first, are you describing a "Biles"...back double lay with 1 1/2 twists or full in>1 1/2 out?

or are you describing a barani in>full out...or 1 1/2 twisting double front lay?
 
No need to be concerned with back salto/left arm and front salto/right arm. Back tumbling from north to south the gymnast reaches and then shortens with the left arm for the twist. Front tumbling north to south the gymnast reaches and then shortens with the right arm. In both cases the reach/shorten arm is on the west side of their body, and therefore the action is really the same... sorta anyway.
 
Aero, i'm old. so first, are you describing a "Biles"...back double lay with 1 1/2 twists or full in>1 1/2 out?

or are you describing a barani in>full out...or 1 1/2 twisting double front lay?
A barani in, back full out. So, a half twist in the first flip, and a full twist in the second flip.
 
@dunno | I have Gerald George's book as well, and I have read it through at least four times. However, the part that @Alverna states still confuses me a bit. I understand the concept of biaxial rotation well, but how in the world does the body shortening (arm drop) technique reverse between backward and forward saltos?

Here's a hypothetical situation: A gymnast is trying to execute a forward half twisting layout somersault in - backward full twisting layout somersault out (two flips, 1.5 twists stretched). If that gymnast was a left twister, they would drop their right arm first during the front half (barani) phase, right? But then they would be in position for the back full midair. Would they keep their arm position? Or change it somehow, since backward counterclockwise (left) rotations call for a left arm drop?

I love twisting skills, and I am also anxiously watching this thread for crazy twisting debates. :p

ok, you know trampolining is different. your example, left twist. this means that the right shoulder will tilt on take off.

the right arm will NOT drop. BOTH arms will pull under in the straight arm position.

when the 2nd somi begins, the right arm tilts slightly and the left arm comes across the body in the straight arm position.

you can see this technique at competitive trampolining sites. and done mostly by the women. you don't see the men doing a lot of barani in>full out fliffis work. :)
 

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