WAG Types of kips - sorry if duplicate!

[CuriousCate]

I typed this all and then it disappeared, so sorry if it is a partial duplicate.

First off, my brag. My ODD got her kip last week! With straight arms and everything. It was gorgeous! She has been so worried that she would not make lvl 4 because of it and then BAM. She turned 7 in mid-January and is the youngest on her team and she frequently feels like she is cast aside during practice because "oh, you're so young, you have time....you're young enough to repeat lvl 3....the bigger girls have to get this skill sooner, etc" so this was definitely an in your face type of moment for her! And her teammates' response was the best thing i've ever seen. Cheers and hugs and spinning her around, etc! I love those girls.

Next, the questions. I think what she got is the glide kip (start from standing, pike, extend, the kip up), right? What are the other types of kips she needs for lvl 4? I was reading the long hang kip? What is the difference and how hard is it to get this type of kip as compared to the glide kip?

Also, she is really tiny and said that it is hard to stand on the low bar and jump to high bar. Is the bar distance kept the same at lvl 4 regardless of gymnast size?

Thanks all!!

 

[kayjaybe]

I can't answer the kip question, but the bars question --- it depends.

At our lower levels, the bars were never adjusted for the girls, but I don't know if that is gym-dependent. When we would go to meets, usually there would be 2 sets of bars that I think had different settings and the girls would go to the one that fit them better. If there was only 1 set, they never adjusted and had to make do.

My kid is tiny, too, and at 15 yrs old and L8, still has to jump from the low bar to the high bar to reach it. Benefit is that she never hits her feet on giants!

 

[gymmomx2]

The long hang lip kip is the one done on the high bar, from more or less a straight body swing after they jump to the high bar.

 

[CuriousCate]

The long hang lip kip is the one done on the high bar, from more or less a straight body swing after they jump to the high bar.

Got it. It is a lot harder to achieve than the glide?

 

[Redford]

The long hang kip is the kip on the high bar whereas the gilde kip is the kip on the low bar.
Tecnically they differ mainly in the first part before the actual kipping motion happens. In the long hang kip you extend downwards while in the glide kip the extention is directed more forwards. (no room for downwards extension) In my expirience the long hang kip seems to be easier for most kids, though of course they already know the kipping motion once they start to learn it. Would be interesting to see if it works the other way around. Has anyone ever taught the long hang kip first?

Anyway congrats to your dd, doing a straight arm kip right away is a big accomplishment and a sign of excellent coaching!

 

[GymMom4]

Got it. It is a lot harder to achieve than the glide?

My daughter said the long hang kip was easier for her because she had momentum from jumping from the low bar. Of course kids are different...

 

[suebee]

My dd also found the long hang kip easier than the glide kip. My dd also found the connecting the cast to the kip quite difficult, and many of her teammates did as well. I don't know whether that was reflective of the coaching, though.

All the girls at her gym at her level use the bars on the same settings, so yes, the little ones are jumping further than the taller ones.

Watching the L4 state meet was interesting, because most gyms only have at most a handful of kids in any one session, and some gyms might only have 1 kid in a session. The coaches were quickly changing bar settings every time a girl from a different gym was up, both for warmups and the competition, so it was very clear that gyms use different bar settings are used at the same level. I did not observe any coaches changing bar settings between gymnasts from the same gym though.

 

[gymmom41]

My daughter is still much better at the glide kip than the long hang kip on the high bar so I guess everybody is different. We have a big mix of heights and ages on our Level 4 team. They do move the bars closer together for the really small girls. Over time, as their confidence grows, they spread the bars out further.

 

[CLgym]

My DD was taught glide kip first... but reports that she finds the long hang kip "easier" (although, of course, she could already glide kip when they started working kips on the high bar). I have noticed her cast is usually higher out of the long hang kip, and she says she feels like she has more power jumping into the long hang kip.

Our gym does not adjust bars for smaller girls. According to DD, bars are set at "FIG" (??) for all. However, a friend whose daughter is a L4 at a different gym always comments on how far apart our coaches set bars.... at her gym, they move the bars closer for some girls. So I guess it depends on gym.

Funny little story -- My high school son came with me to the gym the other day to pick up DD, and asked when she would be moving to the "high" bar. I answered that she was already jumping to high bar and pointed at her working on the L5 routine. His response: "Wait. That's as high as the bar goes, even in the Olympics? No wonder gymnasts have to be short! Did it ever occur to anyone that gymnasts could be a whole lot taller if they just raised the bars a little more!?!" Considering my DD is not gonna be short (she's regularly around or even a bit higher than the 50th percentile in height), I had to chuckle at his assessment...

 

[Sasha]

Whether or not they change the bars setting is completely gym-dependent. From my observation, most gyms keep the setting the same for all girls within a level at comps. I have only seen exceptions when there were taller teens competing a lower level along with the typical 7-11 year olds. I have never seen a gym in a meet change a bars setting for a smaller athlete, though. I'm sure it happens, but it does not seem to be common. It is likely your little one will simply have to jump farther.

As for the translating the glide kip into a long-hang kip, it seems to be all about getting the speed and height in the swing after jumping to the high bar. My DD was on the taller side in L4 (compared to her teammates), and so she would easily jump to the high bar in a motion that was similar to mounting the low bar (she did not have to reach out very far, so jumping aggressively was easier). So learning the long-hang kip was very fast for her. The smaller kids in her group who had to jump more aggressively with a straighter body in order to really get a big enough swing out of it to kip seemed to struggle more to get the high-bar kip. They would jump and just not swing out very far due to 1)smaller bodies with less height and weight to form a big swing and 2)more fear of jumping a bigger gap aggressively enough.

Each kid is different, though, and having 1 straight-arm kip already at age 7 is a great sign! Congrats on this huge milestone!

 

[thefellowsmom]

Mine was tiny at that age and even on a small bar setting had to really jump to the high bar. Our original gym had three different bar settings (think small medium large) and adjusted the bars at meets based on what settings the girls used. If possible the would group the competition order so all the girls at each setting were together. Second gym has all the bars wide open and even the little ones go on the wide setting. Jump! Current gym has wide and fig. The little ones and the girls training elite use fig and everyone else uses wide.

Dd actually got her long hang Kip first. She was one of the last ones to get it. In her true fashion she won't cheat insisting on doing things correctly from the start so tends to take a little longer to get a skill. But once she does get it, it is good to go. Once she got her Kip it was there most every time, no losing it getting it back bent arm stuff. Point was the rest of the group had moved on to long hang kips so she tried that and found the momentum of the jump easier to Kip out of. Then the regular and long hang came together pretty quickly as she had figured out the timing.

Sounds like she is doing great! It all comes together and soon the dreaded Kip will be a blip and you will have moved on to the agony of clear hips and giants and if your really lucky the terror of flipping vaults. Yikes!

 

[suebee]

As for the translating the glide kip into a long-hang kip, it seems to be all about getting the speed and height in the swing after jumping to the high bar. My DD was on the taller side in L4 (compared to her teammates), and so she would easily jump to the high bar in a motion that was similar to mounting the low bar (she did not have to reach out very far, so jumping aggressively was easier). So learning the long-hang kip was very fast for her. The smaller kids in her group who had to jump more aggressively with a straighter body in order to really get a big enough swing out of it to kip seemed to struggle more to get the high-bar kip. They would jump and just not swing out very far due to 1)smaller bodies with less height and weight to form a big swing and 2)more fear of jumping a bigger gap aggressively enough.

So interesting! My dd is one of the shortest on her team, but definitely found the long hang kip easier, and connecting the kip to a nice cast easier on the high bar as well.

It is all a big mystery to me!

 

[Flyaway]

My daughter said the long hang kip was easier for her because she had momentum from jumping from the low bar. Of course kids are different...

Yep, this was my Dad's experience as well. She got her long hang kip first.

Congrats to your dd OP!

 

[z2akids]

DD has a better long hang kip than glide kip - higher cast out of it, etc. She learmed them at the same time or very close together.

Our gym does 2 primary bar settings. One us close and the other much wider. It is a lot of the smallest girls on the close setting, but it is more dependent on confidence and ability than size from what I see. The stronger bar workers in the lowet levels and the optionals all tend to use the wide setting while the tiniest kids and those who have more fear or weaker bars tend yo use the close setting.

The coaches adjust at meets, mostly trying to have the girls grouped by setting so they dont have to change them too often. At States, DD's HC was there by herself and had to adjust almost every other gurl because of the random order.

 

[GymMom4]

Our coaches used to adjust bars by the girls' height as well. Now that they are level 7, though, all of the girls just go on the same setting.

 

[FreckleGirls]

My daughter's level 4 group had three different bar settings. It wasn't a big deal when coaches could choose competition order. Was more interesting at state where it was a computerized draw. One of the team "talls" was right after my "small" and the video of my gymmie's routine is kind of funny. As soon as she saluted, all the coaches swung into action like a pit crew to change the bars.

 

[2G1B]

My DD got her long hang kip before her glide kip (her gym worked both of them at the same time). Her gym at that time had two settings for her group - one closer together than the other. Now all of the girls do the same setting.

One other kip to get before level 5 is the drop kip. I'd say this was the hardest kip for my DD to get.

 

[mommyof1]

One other kip to get before level 5 is the drop kip.

Is that the one where they start in front support, cast away from the bar, swing down, and kip back up? And is that the same thing as a "pushaway kip"?

 

[2G1B]

Is that the one where they start in front support, cast away from the bar, swing down, and kip back up? And is that the same thing as a "pushaway kip"?

Yeah, I think that is it. Every time I have seen my DD do it it has been out of a free hip rather than a front support; but it was just a bear for her to get it and keep her feet from brushing/bumping the floor.

 

[mommyof1]

Yeah, I think that is it. Every time I have seen my DD do it it has been out of a free hip rather than a front support; but it was just a bear for her to get it and keep her feet from brushing/bumping the floor.

I hadn't even thought of the foot issue--I have only seen my kid do it on the trench bar, which she says is the height of the high bar. Something else to worry about!