Parents Vault Question

[JBS]

The ability to set goals is one of the most important skills in life. It's not possible to achieve a goal if it's not set.

The important part is not the actual goal... it is the concept that goals are actually being set. And let's be real... 38 AA is not uncommon... in fact... it may actually be necessary at many levels. You can see the results from Level 10 Nationals at the following link...

https://usagym.org/pages/post.html?PostID=21940

Below is random screenshot of one of the age groups...

 

[GymMomma2019]

We actually had a meeting at our gym about this not too long ago.
They informed the parents that since it’s SO NEW-a lot of judges aren’t on one accord when it comes down to judging and scoring the vaults.

The new vault deduction includes soooo much- the angle you hit the vault, being vertical at a certain part of the vault, leg separation, blocking/not blocking, bent arms, etc. etc.

The video they put up is really helpful! I think this year will be very touch and go with vault because it’s so new! Until USAG really breaks it down a bit more and judges have more training it’s going to be like this unfortunately. My daughter had a meet not too long ago and the highest score was a 9.0 but the scores averaged high 7s to mid 8s.
It’s like this year is their trial and error year!

As for your daughter setting goals, I commend her 100%! Kudos to her! Never crush a child’s dreams because what we may think is impossible! I never tell my daughter she can’t go to the Olympics- that’s her dream and I won’t crush it! Even though some on here may say “99% of girls won’t make it to the Olympics”-well ok, who says my child can’t be in that 1%?
It’s awesome that she is setting goals! No, it’s not about scores I get it but if that’s how she wants to show her skill progression somewhat by saying ok I’m going to do better at this and get this then YES!! You go girl!!

 

[profmom]

No one is saying your daughter shouldn't set goals. Those of us who've been around the block a few times are just saying that score goals aren't all that useful in this sport. The gymnasts we have seen around here who make it to L10 and beyond tend to be intrinsically motivated and to set goals based on things they can control. You'd be doing her a real service if you gently encourage her to set goals around hitting routines.

Say your kid does beam at two meets. The first routine isn't her best -- she stays on, but she's a little sloppy and has some balance checks. The judges, however, are really generous and give her a 9.45. At the next meet, she really kills it. It's just a hair below the best that she can possibly do that routine. However, at the second meet, the judges are real sticklers and she gets a 9.3. Which routine should she feel better about if the goal is long-term success in the sport?

Please understand -- we aren't attacking you. Your daughter is very talented and is moving up very fast. What you're hearing is stuff it took some of us years to learn, but these little things can make a big difference in longevity and your child's happiness.

 

[amiandjim]

I agree with others that it’s a learning curve for judges this year and scores are on the lower side in our area for sure. I did see one video a mom posted on FB of her kiddo scoring a 9.9 on vault. The only problem was that her kiddo did a fhs timer that looked like an amazing level 4/5 vault to a mat stack...which is pretty much the opposite of what the front handspring timer should look like!

 

[3rd_time_around]

The ability to set goals is one of the most important skills in life. It's not possible to achieve a goal if it's not set.

The important part is not the actual goal... it is the concept that goals are actually being set. And let's be real... 38 AA is not uncommon... in fact... it may actually be necessary at many levels. You can see the results from Level 10 Nationals at the following link...

https://usagym.org/pages/post.html?PostID=21940

Below is random screenshot of one of the age groups...

View attachment 7526

Yes, but these are the best of the best in the entire country. 38.00 at regular meets are maybe 1-5 out of hundreds. 38 is a very high goal. I would think the stress of that would be too much for most kids. Even the former elite that trains at my dd's gym doesn't always score a 38.00.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

]

The ability to set goals is one of the most important skills in life. It's not possible to achieve a goal if it's not set.

The important part is not the actual goal... it is the concept that goals are actually being set. And let's be real... 38 AA is not uncommon... in fact... it may actually be necessary at many levels. You can see the results from Level 10 Nationals at the following link...

https://usagym.org/pages/post.html?PostID=21940

Below is random screenshot of one of the age groups...

View attachment 7526

Yes that’s the score, the result it takes on that day.

To get the result of 38 requires work, that is where the focus and goals should be.

I’m pretty sure even the Simone’s don’t go into a meet hoping to achieve a specific score. They want to stick their skills. They want clean routines. The expectation is the score will follow.

Again, similar to my weight loss journey. I don’t let the scale define how I eat and work out. I make goals like 30 minutes of cardio at least 5x a week. Limit sugar and carbs. Drink less wine. I expect the results on the scale to follow.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Say your kid does beam at two meets. The first routine isn't her best -- she stays on, but she's a little sloppy and has some balance checks. The judges, however, are really generous and give her a 9.45. At the next meet, she really kills it. It's just a hair below the best that she can possibly do that routine. However, at the second meet, the judges are real sticklers and she gets a 9.3. Which routine should she feel better about if the goal is long-term success in the sport?

This a million times

 

[Deleted member 18037]

This is why I rarely post in this place yall read way to much into it. My daughter on her first meet came up short on her 38 goal. She wasn’t mad at all because she still took 1st but everyone has a goal. Some have a goal to go to the Olympics some has a goal of a full ride to a D1 college who are you or anyone else to tell any kid to adjust their goals and dreams. If that’s what my daughter wants to do then my wife and I are behind her 110%. Yall need to stop acting like yall know everything trying to break down a comment. I asked about vault not to break down my daughter goals

That’s the beauty of a forum. Threads wander. And much information and experience is shared. And sometimes something comes up and it gives a perspective you haven’t considered.

Even a gymnast who wants to go Div 1 or the Olympics needs more specific goals that they can control. Really the ultimate decision as to getting on a college team or the Olympic team. lies with the coach.

And while I don’t speak for anyone but myself. I’m sure you’d find most of would advise the same for someone saying my daughter wants to be on the Olympic team. Nice long term goal. But focus on what you have actual control over. The skils, form, strength.

The thing about advise is you can take it or leave it. I hope your daughters journey is smooth and always easy. I guess that happens for the rare few, no reason your daughter can’t be one of them. But you might want to keep this thread in the back of your mind should her journey not come as easily. Or an injury or block happens.....

 

[duyetanh]

Don’t know if I’m in the right place to post this, but what are the judges looking for with the level 7 vault? My daughters coaches say it’s the run and punch, but my daughter is so small she’s not/can’t punch hard. Is everyone getting low 9’s high 8’s on the vault?

Please don’t be offended as I am not saying this with malice...but there are many teeny tiny girls out there who live for that darn vault and punch the heck out of it. My peanut is one of them, it’s been her favorite event her whole little gym life, and one of her dreams/goals is to have two flipping vaults, not just one, lol.
It sounds like your child is very talented, vault just might be a bit harder for her than the other events. And this is ok. Some littles can explode on vault, others need to get bigger before they can pull this off. I am sure your child’s time will come with this event....it will just take time. Good luck to her this season.

 

[JBS]

I would think the stress of that would be too much for most kids.

Probably... but you are not saying ALL kids... and at the point that you do... you would be wrong. I know that I have coached at least one kid that was highly motivated to get the work done by setting goals using scores. This athlete was a highly intellectual person... we actually ended up teaching her a ton about "rules" and how to achieve scores. At the end of the day... she knew that the scores were subjective... and she still kept setting goals using scores. She is now a corporate executive that judges gymnastics on the weekends during the years that she has time. If you talk to her... she attributes her "success" to "failure".

Yes that’s the score, the result it takes on that day.

That's pretty much the score that it takes at Nationals every year.

Maybe her goal isn't what everyone is going to consider a great goal... but she is learning the process of setting goals. Maybe she will burn out... or maybe she will make the National team. Who knows... but what I do know is...

I am hard wired like this quote. You may not be.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

View attachment 7529

I am hard wired like this quote. You may not be.

Why would you think folks who don't think scores are a good goal couldn't be wired that way.
Actually we operate from there as well.

But as with anything, results follow the work.

Pretty sure Brady and the rest of the Patsies weren't shooting for a specific score this weekend.

I'm sure their goals were to hit their routes, make their tackles, connect with their receivers, get their first downs and make sure they made good on their 3rd down conversions. They did all that. The scores followed.

And if the coin toss had gone differently so might of the score. Outstanding 4th quarter drive, different outcome.

And I am sure the Saints when reviewing what they could of done better have lots of things they would do different. But not the scoreboard. And a non call by a ref pretty much cost them a trip to the Super Bowl. Beyond their control.

I don't know any high level athlete that works for a specific score (beyond hitting a needed qualifying score). Even watching interviews post wins...... I know I needed xyz points/score/time to win. I focused on sticking my landings, hitting my series, making my axel, being first out to the gate, getting the first down...............

If my daughter makes her connections on her beam, her leaps are all at 180. No wobbles, form is great. Her score will follow. And she has no control over what the exact number will be.

With the exception of sports where times win, the clock is what it is. And especially in sports with judging (and refs as well). The actual score is not something you can control. Clearly anyone can have whatever goal they want. JMO energy is better spent focusing on what is actually in the individuals power.

On a personal note, I stumbled pound by pound getting over 30 pounds off my frame. But my success is not defined by the number on the scale or how quickly I got there.

 

[rjb123]

My daughter is score driven. She always has been, and I think it makes her a better gymnast. She knows what her routines will likely score and she is first to say that the judges scored too high or too low. She can tell you the deductions she had- it is just how she is wired. That said, she doesn't die on the hill of scores. Yes, she wants that 38 every year, but she wants to also achieve her non score related goals. She doesn't define her success or failure based on the score at one meet.

 

[CLgym]

My DD will also often set a score goal for individual events. My response is always - well, how are you gonna get there? The score goal is of little use without any underlying performance goals re: skills (e.g., better jumps/leaps in my floor routine or hit handstand on casts). Just my two cents. And wow has this thread moved topics!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

My response is always - well, how are you gonna get there? The score goal is of little use without any underlying performance goals

That really is the root of it.

My kid has Ivy aspirations. Going to take high grades. High SAT/ACT scores among other things. But it comes down what are you going to do to achieve those things.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Probably... but you are not saying ALL kids... and at the point that you do... you would be wrong. I know that I have coached at least one kid that was highly motivated to get the work done by setting goals using scores. This athlete was a highly intellectual person... we actually ended up teaching her a ton about "rules" and how to achieve scores. At the end of the day... she knew that the scores were subjective... and she still kept setting goals using scores. She is now a corporate executive that judges gymnastics on the weekends during the years that she has time. If you talk to her... she attributes her "success" to "failure".



That's pretty much the score that it takes at Nationals every year.

Maybe her goal isn't what everyone is going to consider a great goal... but she is learning the process of setting goals. Maybe she will burn out... or maybe she will make the National team. Who knows... but what I do know is...

View attachment 7529

I am hard wired like this quote. You may not be.

That is why I didn't say "all" kids. Good grief.

 

[Natasha]

This is why I rarely post in this place yall read way to much into it. My daughter on her first meet came up short on her 38 goal. She wasn’t mad at all because she still took 1st but everyone has a goal. Some have a goal to go to the Olympics some has a goal of a full ride to a D1 college who are you or anyone else to tell any kid to adjust their goals and dreams. If that’s what my daughter wants to do then my wife and I are behind her 110%. Yall need to stop acting like yall know everything trying to break down a comment. I asked about vault not to break down my daughter goals

Lance,
I apologize. I was responding to your comment that the low vault scoring was important because it was interfering with your daughter's goal of a 38 at every meet. My comment was following the previous poster that she may need to adjust expectations (due to the lower scoring). I noticed at a very large meet this weekend (over 2,300 competitors) the highest L7 score was a 37.4. I did not intend malice and I did not, nor would I tell a child to adjust their dreams. It is because your daughter has dreams that I don't want the short term goals to discourage her. You are right though, you did not ask and you can obviously feel free to ignore my advice.
On a forum like this, we all post and contribute based on our experiences and perceptions of the world, we can agree, disagree, ignore.... My post was not intended as an attack and I apologize that it came off that way.
My post was coming from my own experience, having a daughter who is now retired from the sport after multiple years of competing at L10 and now in college. She set many goals over her 10 years of competing- some of them in her control, some of them out of her control, some met and some never achieved. She recently shared with me that she never felt like she was 'a good gymnast' (despite winning AA a state her final year). That made me sad. She always set self imposed high goals, that's just who she is. In addition, in my job, I literally have to set SMART goals with pre-teens/teens every day, so it is second nature for me to do that- (so yeah, when you say who am I to tell a kid to adjust their goals- that is actually my job to help kids focus on making goals that they have control over and are achievable) but at the same time I realize it is not my job here .
As far as setting score goals, I get that some gymnasts find that a helpful way to measure their success and they link it to all the things that have to happen to get there- my daughter included had goals for scores she wanted to hit each season. The part that concerned me, was the goal for EVERY meet- and again that was just a hot button for me because of how gymnastics is this whole measure of perfection without room for error...I am still in the process of processing my daughter's gymnastics experience with her as she is recently retired- and this is something we have talked about a lot. I fear that the feeling 'not good enough' may be rampant in this sport. (Take a look at Shawn Johnson's I am Second short film) So yes, I acknowledge I may have read more into your situation- simply based on where I am at on processing this whole gymnastics journey of the past 10 years.
I do wish you and your daughter the best and I hope she realizes all her dreams.

 

[JBS]

Why don't we just go to the real of root what I am digging into... I own a forum... this one. Someone asked a couple questions about vault. This person got the answer (plus a bunch more)... so now they don't want to post...

This is why I rarely post in this place yall read way to much into it. My daughter on her first meet came up short on her 38 goal. She wasn’t mad at all because she still took 1st but everyone has a goal. Some have a goal to go to the Olympics some has a goal of a full ride to a D1 college who are you or anyone else to tell any kid to adjust their goals and dreams. If that’s what my daughter wants to do then my wife and I are behind her 110%. Yall need to stop acting like yall know everything trying to break down a comment. I asked about vault not to break down my daughter goals

Can I just keep arguing for the sake of arguing... sure. I did start a forum... I love to argue.

This is my last post in this thread though... I don't really like participating much here anymore either. I do like keeping it running so you all can talk though. Have fun!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Why don't we just go to the real of root what I am digging into... I own a forum... this one. Someone asked a couple questions about vault. This person got the answer (plus a bunch more)... so now they don't want to post...
!

Been around all kinds of forums for over a decade (and scarily closer to 2). Threads wander.

I actually found this one quite interesting and civil. Most threads here are civil. Nice job all.

And folks tend to forget when they post they don’t get to pick only what they want to hear.

This thread was civil and not personal. Its a win.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

Back to the original question, my dd had her first level 7 meet this past weekend (a large one in Florida) and the winning scores were mostly in the low 9's. The highest vault score was 9.625. 67 out of 267 were 9.0 or higher and only 11 of 267 were 9.3 or higher. Dd's team does the yurchenko timer, but it seemed a lot of teams were doing the tsuk from what I could tell. Dd's coaches have basically told them that scores will be all over the place for vault this year and he is okay with that. My daughter got a 9.0 and she (and I) were thrilled with that.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Dd's coaches have basically told them that scores will be all over the place for vault this year and he is okay with that.

Our coaches pretty much said the same thing. Its going to take time to all get on the same page and it not anything to worry about. Coach said the need to worry about doing the skill and the drills not the score.