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Venting

claudidoll

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Sep 10, 2012
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I don’t agree, everyone could try out for the fast track program, if their daughter doesn’t make it it’s on that daughter not the other gymnast who made it. What happens if you have a meet and a girl gets very high score all the time? You say oh they must have longer hours.
If that’s how it works at your gym great! At ours there’s no try out for different groups.


and I would never say anything to a parent about their daughter or fairness.


My older daughter was fortunate to be in the higher hours group and saw it from the other side.

I was just offering a different perspective.

honestly I’ve learned to just show up and cheer for good gymnastics :)
 

Flicfliclay

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i can sympathize with the parents from the same gym. It’s hard to see your athlete compete against an athlete from the same team who seems to be getting more hours and better training. I get that gymnastics ( and life) aren’t fair but do think things within a gym should be as fair as possible.

my younger DD and one of her training partners are doing level four, they train with a less experienced ( but super awesome coach) and they train 16 hours a week. They will compete against kids from another group who train 20 hours a week and have access to our assistant head coach.

I get that all athletes progress differently and as a mom to 4 kids I honestly believe fair is everyone getting what they need not necessarily everyone getting the same, but at the same time it almost feels like my kiddo is being set up to fail. intellectually I know that’s not the case and I trust our coaching staff but at the same time I can see the perspective of other parents.
That happens in most gyms. Although i get your point. But even within the fast track programs there are gyms that kids go WAY more hours! I am talking 32+ hours a week! There are gyms that use Xcel programs as way to move through compulsory programs.. ( not what is was designed to do ) and those girls train JO and are against girls that train less hours.. its is always going to be unfair in that aspect. My daughter is in the elite/hopes group and they train more hours and are kept separate from the other regular training groups..
 
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claudidoll

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Sep 10, 2012
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That happens in most gyms. Although i get your point. But even within the fast track programs there are gyms that kids go WAY more hours! I am talking 32+ hours a week! There are gyms that use Xcel programs as way to move through compulsory programs.. ( not what is was designed to do ) and those girls train JO and are against girls that train less hours.. its is always going to be unfair in that aspect. My daughter is in the elite/hopes group and they train more hours and are kept separate from the other regular training groups..
Which is awesome for her :)
Just saying I can see how an athlete not in That group but competing at the same level and age group from the same gym might feel at a disadvantage. I know you can’t control what other gyms do and I recognize that gymnastics and life aren’t fair but I can sympathize when my kid feels like she’s already lost before the comp has even stepped on the floor, Or when my 7 year old says of course X will beat me she should beat me she trains way more etc....
the motto in our house has always been focus on what you have control over and with gym that’s how hard you work and the attitude you bring to gym :) they don’t control which group they are in ( at least not at the gyms here so implying not being in a group is on them is kind of unfair) but they can choose to work their hardest and be positive and kind.
We will continue to cheer for everyone because every athlete is doing incredible things. I promise if I was at a meet in your area I’d cheer as hard for your kiddo as the next :)
 

Ty’s Dad

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Which is awesome for her :)
Just saying I can see how an athlete not in That group but competing at the same level and age group from the same gym might feel at a disadvantage. I know you can’t control what other gyms do and I recognize that gymnastics and life aren’t fair but I can sympathize when my kid feels like she’s already lost before the comp has even stepped on the floor, Or when my 7 year old says of course X will beat me she should beat me she trains way more etc....
the motto in our house has always been focus on what you have control over and with gym that’s how hard you work and the attitude you bring to gym :) they don’t control which group they are in ( at least not at the gyms here so implying not being in a group is on them is kind of unfair) but they can choose to work their hardest and be positive and kind.
We will continue to cheer for everyone because every athlete is doing incredible things. I promise if I was at a meet in your area I’d cheer as hard for your kiddo as the next :)
That happens in most gyms. Although i get your point. But even within the fast track programs there are gyms that kids go WAY more hours! I am talking 32+ hours a week! There are gyms that use Xcel programs as way to move through compulsory programs.. ( not what is was designed to do ) and those girls train JO and are against girls that train less hours.. its is always going to be unfair in that aspect. My daughter is in the elite/hopes group and they train more hours and are kept separate from the other regular training groups..
Well my daughter does go 32 hours a week and I still won’t call anything unfair. The hours are for hopes/elite not necessarily JO, they all basically do the same things in JO so everyone should be on the same scale. It’s up to that gymnast and coach to have the girls ready.
 

claudidoll

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Sep 10, 2012
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Well my daughter does go 32 hours a week and I still won’t call anything unfair. The hours are for hopes/elite not necessarily JO, they all basically do the same things in JO so everyone should be on the same scale. It’s up to that gymnast and coach to have the girls ready.
how can they be on the same scale when they are training more hours, maybe with smaller groups and more coaches...surely you can see how it would be more difficult with less resources dedicated to them...

Like I said I don’t begrudge other athletes anything but as a reasonable human being, who has been on both sides I feel like I can see where both sides are coming from and neither feel great.

no one should comment on the level another athlete is doing, we don’t know the whole story maybe they are missing a key skill or for some other reason isn’t ready to compete the next level.

I’m in Canada so no Xcel program everyone does JO, maybe that’s the disconnect but like I said I would never say anything to an athlete or parent, my girls have the mantra to work hard and be positive and I’ll keep on being able to empathize with the girls.


I try to stay in my lane ( supportive parent to not just my athletes but anyone competing :)
 

ldw4mlo

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how can they be on the same scale when they are training more hours, maybe with smaller groups and more coaches...surely you can see how it would be more difficult with less resources dedicated to them...
Its not the same scale. We all know that, or we should know that. It’s a case of it is what it is.
 

Ty’s Dad

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Its not the same scale. We all know that, or we should know that. It’s a case of it is what it is.
But who’s fault is that? Gym, Coaches, Parents? I’m asking because this type of stuff really bothers me like people penalize kids for having more hours. If someone’s child does or does not have the opportunity to to train more, who’s fault is that?
 

Ty’s Dad

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If someone goes in for a job interview with a high school level education, and the next person has a masters. They pick the person with the masters who’s fault is that? You gonna say “well it wasn’t a fair interview because they had more education”
 

claudidoll

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Sep 10, 2012
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But who’s fault is that? Gym, Coaches, Parents? I’m asking because this type of stuff really bothers me like people penalize kids for having more hours. If someone’s child does or does not have the opportunity to to train more, who’s fault is that?
I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault or that I or anyone else should penalize Kids in fact I’ve said the opposite just that I can understand the feelings on both sides. And that no one is right or wrong feelings are emotional and both sides are entitled to them.

as I stated many times I show up and cheer for everyone I truly love watching ALL the athletes compete and show their stuff.

kindness is always the best policy

If someone goes in for a job interview with a high school level education, and the next person has a masters. They pick the person with the masters who’s fault is that? You gonna say “well it wasn’t a fair interview because they had more education”
Not sure I follow this logic. Clearly masters trumps high school... depending on the job of course. But we are talking about kids and sport.
Ive said I know nothing is fair and said I can understand both sides

Obviously one gym can not control what other gyms do but can you not see how two athletes from the same gym competing the same level but getting vastly different training could be seen as unfair? I’m not say it is unfair as I have stated I believe fairness is everyone getting what they need not necessarily everyone getting the same.
What I am saying is that it could appear unfair and often we are dealing with young kids and feelings get hurt. We all want for our kids to be happy :)

I wish your athlete all the best and I hope no other person makes a comment that is negative as that is unfair to her.
 

Sk8ermaiden

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If someone goes in for a job interview with a high school level education, and the next person has a masters. They pick the person with the masters who’s fault is that? You gonna say “well it wasn’t a fair interview because they had more education”
I don't think it's like that at all.

It's more like two kids going to the same high school. One is offered the most experienced teachers and small class sizes. The others get standard teachers and typical (large) class sizes. Then those two students have to compete for a scholarship based on their SAT scores. You can see how it is absolutely not fair, and how the parents of those students receiving less, or the students themselves, might be upset about it.

But life isn't fair, and gymnastics isn't as important as an education, and unlike most schools, parents at a gym can vote with their feet and their $ if they have an issue with it. It's life.

I think one of the things parents can have a hard time with is recognizing that those extra hours and the extra intensity truly might be right for another child but not theirs. But even knowing that, as a parent it would be hard to be at a gym where my child was being actively set up to lose against her own gym's "A" team. Our coaches spend as much time with, and give the same opportunities to, every girl in a level, and I value that about our gym. If I were in a gym like the OP's, I certainly wouldn't whine to the parent of the fast-tracked kid about it. It's not their fault. If it bothered me enough, I'd leave.
 

TumbleTimes4

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If someone goes in for a job interview with a high school level education, and the next person has a masters. They pick the person with the masters who’s fault is that? You gonna say “well it wasn’t a fair interview because they had more education”
I don’t think this is an accurate comparison. While there may be financial constraints that can limit a person’s ability to obtain a master’s level education, usually other people don’t dictate your ability to further your education. But sometimes in gymnastics, coaches can dictate which kids receive more time, attention, training group placement, etc.

I think what some on this board are just trying to do is to get you to see a different perspective of this, that’s all.
 

Flicfliclay

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Which is awesome for her :)
Just saying I can see how an athlete not in That group but competing at the same level and age group from the same gym might feel at a disadvantage. I know you can’t control what other gyms do and I recognize that gymnastics and life aren’t fair but I can sympathize when my kid feels like she’s already lost before the comp has even stepped on the floor, Or when my 7 year old says of course X will beat me she should beat me she trains way more etc....
the motto in our house has always been focus on what you have control over and with gym that’s how hard you work and the attitude you bring to gym :) they don’t control which group they are in ( at least not at the gyms here so implying not being in a group is on them is kind of unfair) but they can choose to work their hardest and be positive and kind.
We will continue to cheer for everyone because every athlete is doing incredible things. I promise if I was at a meet in your area I’d cheer as hard for your kiddo as the next :)
Absolutely see your point and trust me i have heard it from other parents having a daughter in the "other" group. And i can sympathize with them for sure.
 

Flicfliclay

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Well my daughter does go 32 hours a week and I still won’t call anything unfair. The hours are for hopes/elite not necessarily JO, they all basically do the same things in JO so everyone should be on the same scale. It’s up to that gymnast and coach to have the girls ready.
My daughter is in an hopes/elite training gym, so i do know that they do gain an advantage over the just jo group. Those hopes/elite skills that they are training they work sooner and while my daughters gym does work upgrades at all levels, the hopes/elite girls work them more and more often. I could say oh your daughter has an advantage over my daughters gym because they go 16 hours a month more than mine.. but that is the name of the game. More hours doesn't necessarily mean better training. Either way i can see how people can get frustrated.
 
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bookworm

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Sorry have to vent and my wife won’t let me put it in the other groups, but I’m sick and tired of parents and other team coaches either pulling me and my wife to the side, or texting us about my daughter needing to skip up a level. One parent on Sat told me at the awards that its not fair that my daughter is a level 8 her daughter doesn’t have a chance. One I don’t know what to say so I just ignore people. Two my daughter is in the level she’s supposed to be in she didnt repeat, so what am I supposed to do beg my daughters coach to go 9 to make others feel better? Sorry just had to type this up while im in the car
Why do you even listen to these people? You can just stay in your lane and ignore them.... and they can talk amongst themselves about things that are none of their business (i.e. your kid and her gymnastics)
 

OrchidZ

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Your wife seems wise. I would suggest you learn from her and just let it roll off.

If that's not enough, consider:
Gymnastics is a tough and expensive sport. It's tough and expensive for the families and for the gyms. Gyms have all that lovely overhead of insurance, rent (or payment if they buy the land), upkeep, equipment, staff, etc etc etc etc. Not all gyms make it through the first year or two.
It takes a lot - in this case rec kids, parent nights out, open gym, and yes, even xcel and JO kids - to help pay the bills and keep a gym in business so that they can train their upcoming slate of AmazeBalls. So if you happen to be a parent of one of those special tops/hopes/elite kids who's lucky/blessed enough to have the "complete package" including but not limited to:
interest, talent, solid financial support, familial support, mental toughness, able bodied, good general health, flexibility, emotional support, live in an area with access to training, good positive coaches, supportive gym owner(s), access to the best medical/rehab/nutrition/etc
and without:
mentally/physically/emotionally abusive coaching, constant coaching changes, instability in the family structure, unstable income, repetitive or serious injury (which even when healed can result in a serious growth spurt that changes everything), a bad case of the twisties, or mental blocks, death in the family that requires a change, previously unknown physical illness or weaknesses, or any other number of difficult but possible issues that can derail one's hopes and dreams

If your kid just happens to be one of the lucky/blessed kids who struck gold or at the very least silver on this list of pluses and minuses, or if they are lucky enough to minimize or compensate for any that did affect them, maybe you could let things like this go and just be thankful that these other people are in your gym helping keep it financially solvent. Most kids don't have that complete package and weren't tapped for extra attention. Because extra attention (whether or not it shows in actual hours in the gym or in just special time apart) does help. All of these things have an impact. And your kid is lucky. For her sake, I hope her luck holds. So just consider yourself lucky/blessed too, say thank you to anyone who says your girl is "too good", and move on. This is her thing anyway, not yours.
 

TumbleTimes4

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Your wife seems wise. I would suggest you learn from her and just let it roll off.

If that's not enough, consider:
Gymnastics is a tough and expensive sport. It's tough and expensive for the families and for the gyms. Gyms have all that lovely overhead of insurance, rent (or payment if they buy the land), upkeep, equipment, staff, etc etc etc etc. Not all gyms make it through the first year or two.
It takes a lot - in this case rec kids, parent nights out, open gym, and yes, even xcel and JO kids - to help pay the bills and keep a gym in business so that they can train their upcoming slate of AmazeBalls. So if you happen to be a parent of one of those special tops/hopes/elite kids who's lucky/blessed enough to have the "complete package" including but not limited to:
interest, talent, solid financial support, familial support, mental toughness, able bodied, good general health, flexibility, emotional support, live in an area with access to training, good positive coaches, supportive gym owner(s), access to the best medical/rehab/nutrition/etc
and without:
mentally/physically/emotionally abusive coaching, constant coaching changes, instability in the family structure, unstable income, repetitive or serious injury (which even when healed can result in a serious growth spurt that changes everything), a bad case of the twisties, or mental blocks, death in the family that requires a change, previously unknown physical illness or weaknesses, or any other number of difficult but possible issues that can derail one's hopes and dreams

If your kid just happens to be one of the lucky/blessed kids who struck gold or at the very least silver on this list of pluses and minuses, or if they are lucky enough to minimize or compensate for any that did affect them, maybe you could let things like this go and just be thankful that these other people are in your gym helping keep it financially solvent. Most kids don't have that complete package and weren't tapped for extra attention. Because extra attention (whether or not it shows in actual hours in the gym or in just special time apart) does help. All of these things have an impact. And your kid is lucky. For her sake, I hope her luck holds. So just consider yourself lucky/blessed too, say thank you to anyone who says your girl is "too good", and move on. This is her thing anyway, not yours.
Nailed it!
 

IreneKa

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If someone goes in for a job interview with a high school level education, and the next person has a masters. They pick the person with the masters who’s fault is that? You gonna say “well it wasn’t a fair interview because they had more education”
In real life the person with a high school diploma and a person with masters probably wouldn't go to the same job interview, because they wouldn't be up for the same position. While the problem with gymnastics is that those girls do end up going to the same interview - the same meets, and have to compete against each other. It almost feels like those elite-tracked girls should have a separate competition track (doesn't GB have something like this?). It's like Xcel vs. JO, you don't expect Xcel Platinum athlete, who trains maybe 10 hours a week compete against L7 who trains 20 hours a week, even if technically they are working on the same skills, it wouldn't be fair. I know it's unrealistic, there aren't enough elite track gymnasts in the country to have them compete separately, I'm just saying that I understand why some parents might think it's unfair.
 

FlippinLilysMom

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In real life the person with a high school diploma and a person with masters probably wouldn't go to the same job interview, because they wouldn't be up for the same position. While the problem with gymnastics is that those girls do end up going to the same interview - the same meets, and have to compete against each other. It almost feels like those elite-tracked girls should have a separate competition track (doesn't GB have something like this?). It's like Xcel vs. JO, you don't expect Xcel Platinum athlete, who trains maybe 10 hours a week compete against L7 who trains 20 hours a week, even if technically they are working on the same skills, it wouldn't be fair. I know it's unrealistic, there aren't enough elite track gymnasts in the country to have them compete separately, I'm just saying that I understand why some parents might think it's unfair.
They do have their own meets. They are called elite qualifiers. Those are what they are training those extra hours for.
 

Muddlethru

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I think as much as most people care to admit, it is all about talent. Kids are pulled out because they can handle, need more challenge. There is an education/school reference above. Our school has an Intellectually Gifted program. “Talented” kids are pulled out of their regular school and classes to be part of an accelerated program. If the coach or teacher is to do a great job, instruction and coaching is individualized.

It would not be fair to put very talented children with lesser talented children. They’ll get bored and their gifts are not properly utilized. Many also forget the sacrifices these more talented kids have to make. Our IG students are sometimes made fun off by the regular students. They are held in a different standard, have more homework, etc. The talented gymnasts have less hours for other things and are likely in a lot more pressure to perform. Would it be fair to put everyone on a 32 hour practice schedule to even out the playing field? Many will not make it past a year. As indicated above, using the word fair in and of itself is unfair and is usually used when we don’t get the desired result.
 

IreneKa

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They do have their own meets. They are called elite qualifiers. Those are what they are training those extra hours for.
When they get there - yes. But we are talking about level 8 here, who is working towards elite, but not there yet. They are competing in the regular JO meets, as I understand.
 
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