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Venting

FlippinLilysMom

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When they get there - yes. But we are talking about level 8 here, who is working towards elite, but not there yet. They are competing in the regular JO meets, as I understand.
Most will do elite qualifier meets while also doing some JO meets. If the goal is to qualify to the HOPES classic then they must do qualifier meets. Same if trying to qualify as a junior or senior elite. The skills needed to qualify as an elite are much harder than your basic JO level 10 skills, hence the need for more individualized training.
 
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bookworm

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Would it be fair to put everyone on a 32 hour practice schedule to even out the playing field? Many will not make it past a year. As indicated above, using the word fair in and of itself is unfair and is usually used when we don’t get the desired result.
I never thought about it like this but this is a good example ...if you said to every gymnast that showed up for sign up at a gym: " in order to give everyone a fair shot to be a great gymnast, we've found training 32 hours is the number of hours a week required from level 4 on" , you wouldn't have very many long term gymnasts in your program for a few reasons 1. You'd be considered crazy to do 32 hours at level 4 and 2. Burnout would skyrocket early on. ... but giving everyone 32 hours would be fair but is it really what the goal is.

And to be realistic here, there have been gymnasts along the way that we've trained many hours with , and they could've trained 32 hours a week for years , and they still would have been at the levels they were at ...more hours can't overcome when talent level is maxed out and sometimes that's tough to hear, especially when others in the group are moving ahead.
 

Flippin'A

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It seems like we're having two different conversations. I absolutely think there needs to be more talk about how to allow gymnasts to participate at different intensities to allow gymnastics to be a sport that doesn't require 100% of their time at a young age. I also have an issue with gyms that lift up their top performers and just kind of tolerate the others, leaving kids feeling less-than. But as to the original question, it's hugely inappropriate to express that to the parent of a talented gymnast. If you think your child is being cheated in some way, even if you're right, telling another kid's mom or dad that is still wrong and just creates a hostile atmosphere. At every gym I've ever encountered the parent doesn't pick the hours or the level (short of agreeing to drive the car and pay the bill) so there's no legitimate reason that these frustrations should be expressed to the parent instead of the coach.
 

ldw4mlo

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you don't expect Xcel Platinum athlete, who trains maybe 10 hours a week compete against L7 who trains 20 hours a week, even if technically they are working on the same skills, it wouldn't be fair.
Actually training hours differences occur all the time even in the same division. (And the masters/HS thing is not remotely the same)

Our 12-14 hour gym regularly competes with gyms that go more hours. we realize it is what it is.

Personally, we made a choice to do lower hours. So we don’t expect to medal as often. And when we do it makes the win that much sweeter.

However if we went to a gym that was large enough to track kids differently and train them differently. I would expect them to send them to different meets. Or at least keep them together as a team, so all the kids could claim the “team” awards

But then it is unlikely we would chose to be at such a gym.
 

TumbleTimes4

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I did not have a problem with the OP’s first vent. It’s not appropriate for other parents to make the comments they did.

I think where feathers got ruffled is when OP said that every gymnast has the chance to try out for fast track programs or that every gymnast starts on a level playing field or is on the same scale, thus implying that everything is “fair,” when most people know that’s not the case.

Parents need to accept that gymnastics will never be completely fair. There will always be kids with more natural ability, those whose gyms do more hours, or those who are fast tracked for elite competing with those who aren’t. It’s just the nature of the sport. But OP needs to be acknowledge that it’s also not fair and to maybe be a little more understanding of the frustration of parents whose daughters have not been given the same opportunities for whatever reason.

Venting that their comments are inappropriate and crossing boundaries is fine. Trying to suggest their frustrations are unfounded is naive. There are always two sides to everything.
 

ldw4mlo

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If the coach or teacher is to do a great job, instruction and coaching is individualized.

It would not be fair to put very talented children with lesser talented children. They’ll get bored and their gifts are not properly utilized.
Also a bad example

You also don’t take that gifted math student and have them compete in a math Olympics against the you know ordinary kids to determine the best student in math.
 

KipWinger

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I completely agree that it’s inappropriate to criticize or complain to parents of a talented gymnast. As a parent of a gymnast whose gym moves kids up very slowly, I’ve seen that happen several times myself and it can be frustrating.

We’re in a league with mandatory score outs and sometimes kids are not moved up after they achieve the move-up score. Other parents complain to the parents of those gymnasts. I totally get the frustration of the parents who complain, although, to be fair, sometimes the parents of the kids who score out are not always aware of the rule. So when my DD scored the mandatory move-up score, I insisted that she be moved up to the next level even though she didn’t have all the required skills for the new level. My DD wanted the challenge and both of us wanted to follow the rules.

While I know that USAG doesn’t have mandatory move-up scores, I think I might wonder if my kid was in the right level if she scored very high (eg, >38) in her first meet at that level, regardless of the comments of the other parents or the number of hours she trains. I think I might be concerned that she wasn’t being sufficiently challenged. And while I know that gymnastics will never be fair, I would worry about the perceived fairness of this particular situation.
 
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FlippinLilysMom

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I completely agree that it’s inappropriate to criticize or complain to parents of a talented gymnast. As a parent of a gymnast whose gym moves kids up very slowly, I’ve seen that happen several times myself and it can be frustrating.

We’re in a league with mandatory score outs and sometimes kids are not moved up after they achieve the move-up score. Other parents complain to the parents of those gymnasts. I totally get the frustration of the parents who complain, although, to be fair, sometimes the parents of the kids who score out are not always aware of the rule. So when my DD scored the mandatory move-up score, I insisted that she be moved up to the next level even though she didn’t have all the required skills for the new level. My DD wanted the challenge and both of us wanted to follow the rules.

While I know that USAG doesn’t have mandatory move-up scores, I think I might wonder if my kid was in the right level if she scored very high (eg, >38) in her first meet at that level, regardless of the comments of the other parents or the number of hours she trains. I think I might be concerned that she wasn’t being sufficiently challenged. And while I know that gymnastics will never be fair, I would worry about the perceived fairness of this particular situation.
USAG does have move up scores, but gyms will also have their own move up requirements
 

Muddlethru

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If the coach or teacher is to do a great job, instruction and coaching is individualized.

It would not be fair to put very talented children with lesser talented children. They’ll get bored and their gifts are not properly utilized.
Also a bad example

You also don’t take that gifted math student and have them compete in a math Olympics against the you know ordinary kids to determine the best student in math.
I wish you would refrain from being so dismissive of other people’s opinions and the arrogance and “know it all nature” of your posts are very off-putting.

That said, you indicated my post is a bad example but you seem to present an opinion that looks like it supports what I just said?!!
 

Ty’s Dad

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I meant mandatory move-up scores. In our league, if you score 37.8 twice in a given level, you must move up to the next level.
My daughters first level 8 meet (last week) she scored a 38.225. So she should move up because of that even without all the level 9 skills?
 

Ty’s Dad

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And I’m trying to watch what I say because sometimes it comes off a little crazy and I really don’t want all the gym parents mad at me. But instead of saying someone should be moved up because of their high scores, ever think maybe the other kids shouldn’t have moved up to that level or repeated instead of faulting the kid with the higher scores. It’s girls at my daughter gym that does like 16-20 hours, levels 8-10 and they still get high 37s-38s so that’s why I say everything is fair.
 

KipWinger

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My daughters first level 8 meet (last week) she scored a 38.225. So she should move up because of that even without all the level 9 skills?
Congratulations to your daughter. That's amazing! I obviously can't speak to when your daughter should or shouldn't move up. That's between your daughter and her coaches. I'm just providing an alternate perspective since I've heard other parents making similar complaints at meets. In our league, in which training hours are capped to 12-15 at the level similar to L7-L8, the rules say that gymnasts who achieve that score twice must move up.
 

ldw4mlo

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I wish you would refrain from being so dismissive of other people’s opinions and the arrogance and “know it all nature” of your posts are very off-putting.

That said, you indicated my post is a bad example but you seem to present an opinion that looks like it supports what I just said?!!
I’m sorry you read my posts as dismissive. I see it as blunt. It’s not personal.

That we may align in certain things doesn’t make the example of gifted kids, a good one. It’s not


It would not be fair to put very talented children with lesser talented children. They’ll get bored and their gifts are not properly utilized. Many also forget the sacrifices these more talented kids have to make. Our IG students are sometimes made fun off by the regular students. They are held in a different standard, have more homework, etc. .
Again, you would not take those gifted kids and put them in a math competition with the ordinary kids and call it fair or equal....
 

Muddlethru

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I’m sorry you read my posts as dismissive. I see it as blunt. It’s not personal.

That we may align in certain things doesn’t make the example of gifted kids, a good one. It’s not




Again, you would not take those gifted kids and put them in a math competition with the ordinary kids and call it fair or equal....
When you state your opinion is the right one and make no allowances for other people’s opinion, it is dismissive, and arrogant.
 

Muddlethru

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I’m sorry you read my posts as dismissive. I see it as blunt. It’s not personal.

That we may align in certain things doesn’t make the example of gifted kids, a good one. It’s not




Again, you would not take those gifted kids and put them in a math competition with the ordinary kids and call it fair or equal....
Bad example! Again, horrible and makes no sense!
 
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ldw4mlo

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Don't they all take the same ACT and SAT???
First, do they all? I’m sure not all kids take SAT and ACT, just the college bound ones do. My child goes to school with kids who are “gifted“ and kids who have issues, and kids who have plans other then college. Not all will take the SAT or ACT

Next they are not competing directly to win a specfic, direct competition.

A lower scoring kid is not applying to Ivy League schools, That lower scoring kid is applying to schools that accept scores In the range he/she tested in...

My SATs a million years ago were not Harvard.SAT scores. I graduated from a very fine college with a solid educatio, passed the boards in my chosen field.

And those gifted kids going to Harvard weren’t applying to the schools I did. Yes we took the same standardized test. We did not compete directly with each other.
 
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FlippinLilysMom

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First, do they all? I. Sure not all kids take SAT and ACT, just the college bound ones do.

Next they are not competing directly to win a specfic, direct competition.

A lower scoring kid is not applying to Ivy League schools, That lower scoring kid is applying to schools that accept scores In the range he/she tested in...

My SATs a million years ago were not Harvard.SAT scores. I graduated from a very fine college with a solid educatio, passed the boards in my chosen field.

And those gifted kids going to Harvard weren’t applying to the schools I did. Yes we took the same standardized test. We did not compete directly with each other.
And not all gymnasts are aiming for national team or the olympics, only a select few are and those ones deserve the best coaching they can get.
 

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