When is a parent "too involved"?

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I hate the cattiness & it's been really bad this year. Many of our girls have been together thru preteam ,L4, 5 & 6. We HAD a nice team mentality. Last year some new gymnast came to our gym, bringing along these overbearing parents...it's really changed the tone of our gym...and not in a good way:( Actually I've been trying to think of a way to discuss this with the owner. It really is effecting the team. One mom is always standing around "chatting" with the coaches & the owner, always "has their ears"...asking for "special help" for her dd. Thing is...she gets the "special help"...when the rest of us have to pay for privates?!?!? This mom is often out on the gym floor or behind the desk "chatting". She doesn't work there, so I'm not sure why this is being tolerated. She often has presents for the coaches(maybe that's why it's all tolerated). But it is creating animosity amongst the parents. I try to drop off & head out b/c I get irritated when I witness these parental activities. My dd tells me this mom often coaches the child during practice(she stays & watches every practice) or tells the coaches what her child "needs". Then my dd hears the mom berating the child after practice is over about how poorly it all went. This women I'm speaking of is the poster child for "being overly involved" and not in a good way. She really needs to get a life of her own & let her dd live her own life. I try to avoid this woman as much as possible. Worst of all are the catty, manipulative conversations she trys to start with people...they are usually neg & unproductive but always end with "how wonderful her dd is"(I'm not kidding about this!). My dd feels really bad for the little girl and so do I :(
 
I agree with flippymonkeysmom...there is so much cattiness and competitiveness in the compulsory parents. It is the first time the kids compete and some parents have outrageous expectations. Once you get to the optionals, I am hoping it does change. We have one last season of L6 and then we go straight to L7. No off time this year. As far as the parents who watch every time and try to coach from the side lines, as a mom of 4 I can't imagine what these people are not doing at home. I barely have time to get my dd to gym (it is 30 min away on a good traffic day) and back before I have to run errands, cook dinner or get someone else where they need to be. I think that dd developing a relationship with her coaches apart from me is important if we stay in this sport for the long haul. She needs to learn how to get what she needs from her coaches w/o going to me first. If there is a bigger problem that I need to help her out on, then I will...but on everyday things---she needs to go to them first. Her coaches have told me the same thing...

As far as doing stuff at home---I wish someone would tell me how to get dd to STOP with the gymnastics everywhere we go. SHe is constantly asking me to look at a pose, watch a routine or score her on something. Of course I have no idea what I am talking about, but she loves doing it. I do notice as she gets a bit older and further up in the levels, her focus is a bit different. Maybe the more hours you add, the less you want to do at home. I just know that sometimes I get really tired of gymnastics around the clock :)

Finally, I just pray that my husband and I keep a balanced approach to this gym thing. Sometimes it is hard, because when they do win, it is easy to mentally get ahead of the game. We just try to regularly ask my daughter her thoughts and goals, and make sure we are providing a safe place for her to come home and let down. Our coaches are big on the parent being the parent and the coach being the coach. So far it is working..but we will see. Thanks Shawn for starting this thread---it was very interesting to see what everyone's thoughts and responses are!
 
All of this brings another question to mind....what are my dd's rights here??? Is it fair that other parents gawk at her when she's learning something for the 1st time or struggling with a skill??? I respect her "privacy" & watch only when she wants me too. Our previous gym owner had a rule that team parents could only stay & watch practice once a month. So those of us that have been there for many years have just continued what we were used to doing, watching about 1 time/month. It's the "new" parents who "stay & chat" at every practice that have stirred up the cattiness. They need "good gossip" to fill the hours, while their dd's are hard at work. The new owner has never addressed how he feels about it either way. My dd who has always been happy at this gym, now tells me she doesn't like being "watched" by this other mother; 1)She sees how this woman treats her own dd, 2)my dd knows she is only watching her to spread neg. rumors & to have "something to chat about" (as had already happened). I'm not sure how to bring this up to the owner/coach b/c it appears he's ok with the things this woman does. Any one else have a similar situation? How do you coaches out there feel about this type of parent "watching" every practice?
 
Interesting thread topic. I think that I probably seem "too involved" as I have researched gymnastics up and down, mostly due to my own anxieties about DD being involved in competitive gymnastics. I still question my own decision to let her try it. It is hard for me.

That said, all the new parents (me being one of them) ask me all the questions and if I don't know, I find out for them. I don't think I am "too involved" at the gym. I do stay sometimes, mostly because my DD (almost 6) really wants me to. I don't stay because I also have DH and 2 year old that need my attention as well. We need dinner on the table and I don't want my 2 year old spending hours and hours a week at the gym.

When I do stay, I usually am just talking life stuff with the other parents or playing with my 2 year old. I look out occasionally to see if my DD is having fun, etc. She is so young and I really hate leaving her there, but I also can't stay at the gym everytime.

As for the post about privacy, that would suck to know there was some mom up there always watching every girl and comparing them, etc. Yuck. I rarely watch the other girls (though I do watch the optional girls sometimes, WOW!) unless I happen to be watching DD as well. And I think they are all amazing, all have their strengths and work very hard.

I have seen 2 moms that have their DDs do privates (semi private?) together once a week and hearing them talk is painful. They are watching their DDs every moves, critiquing them, etc. I try to just ignore it.

I would never go out on the gym floor and I rarely ask the coach questions. Her devo coach was super awesome about approaching US and telling us how the girls were doing, skill names, etc. Team is definitely different in that regard as we really don't talk to the coaches. One approached us as we were waiting for the girls to get out yesterday and told us how hard the girls were working, that he pushes them hard and expects a lot out of them, but makes it fun. My DD loves him. He is the bar coach, but since a coach is on vacation, he is filling in more and DD is loving it. Even though she got a time out yesterday (she told me on the ride home) for not paying attention. LOL. He is a 1st grade teacher as well and seems to work well with the little ones.

I definitely want to be involved in everything my DD does, but not overbearing. All I ask of her is to work hard and have fun.
 
I have had similar situations this past year in cheerleading. I would hear many of the parents making comments about girls sizes and their weight. Many of the parents wanted their kids to be flyers but often times there are only a few spots for flyers and many more for the bases. Since my daughter was one of the flyers, I heard so many parents saying that their daughter was thinner or only weighed 50 lbs and they should be a flyer instead. I felt like I needed to stay and watch her practice because I needed to "defend" my dd when these crazy cheer parents would start making comments. It would rub off on the kids too--the other kids would say that my dd was too heavy or too fat to be a flyer...utterly ridiculous stuff!! Then there was the blame game--the bases would always blame the flyers if the stunt fell and the bases parent's would blame the flyer's parents and make comments about how their daughter can't fly. The coaches and the owner never did anything about these types of situations even after countless meetings, so I decided to leave that gym.
I haven't run into any negativity at my dd's new gymnastics gym so far and hopefully I won't. I guess the real solution is to not respond to the negativity and cattiness so that it does not perpetuate and further develop. But that is often easier said then done!!!
 
Gym mum Uk said just about all I was thinking---probably said it better. As the kids get older, parents tend to stay less and less to watch practice. I just don't have the time in my week to watch my gymmie do 18 hours of practice. Sorry, but after watching a few times, conditioning is really dull to sit through. I also think the girls tend to grow up a little when they know this is their time to practice and work with their coach and teammates---not do little shows for mom/dad. I do ask my gymmie if she's doing something "new and cool" and would like me to come by and watch. So, she makes the decision and its fun for her to have mom come by early and watch her do front giants or whatever is "new and cool" that week.

As for all the practice at home, yes I think it also goes away as they get older and are in the gym more, have more homework etc. Mine loves to make up parts to floor routines, but training L8 there really isn't much she can practice at home. I think since the optional girls are in the gym so much they really value that "down" time at home.

Yes, I've seen the parents who trash the other girls on the team, kiss up to the coaches, volunteer to head EVERY committee in the booster club and rip their kid after a meet because she didn't get the scores the parent thought she should get. Is there a cure for these parents? No. Usually, though their kids are the ones that walk away from the sport and they wonder why.
 
Well said gym law mom. My dd( 11 yo training 10) rarley walked around the house on her feet up until recently. She still likes to go jump on the tramp before practice. They grow out of that. I think with all of their training in the higher levels is physically and mentally exhausting enough. I sincerly believe what goes around comes around. A mom that is being ugly leads to a kid that is ugly and eventually all of that energy and hate blow up. It really is sad but the truth.
 
Wow. This thread has made me think alot.

Gymjourneymom, I am so sorry you and your dd are having such a terrible experience with this particular parent. If I were you, I would definitely talk to the gym owner. People are not going to want to ever be in the gym and I am sure the coaches want to have the best possible environment so the girls feel confident when they are learning new skills. I think it is terrible that parents can't be there to support their child without being ugly towards other families. It must be insecurity!

I have to say that I was probably preceived as being too involved with my dd's gymnastics. It is fine for people to think that and I strongly feel that you have to do what is best for YOUR family. I watched practice frequently, answered the phone if there was noone to grab it, served as the President of the Booster Club and helped the coaches (and other parents) as much as I could. The only meet I ever missed was when I was in the Intensive Care Unit of the hospital and I had a cell phone hidden under the sheets so I could get updates;)!

I did not see it as being "too involved", I saw it as supporting my daughter in her endeaver. My dd started competed when she was 6 y.o. and as she moved up the levels, many of the girls were older. She was an 8 year old Level 7 and her teammates were 12 - 15. Honestly, she liked me being there. During break, conversation was a little different than what she was used to and it was nice to be able to chat with me and hide from things that were a little too grown up for her to hear. I will say that the coaches always had the final word and I only coached her on things that they asked me to help her with at home. Another benefit to my being there was that the older girls could talk to me. They had me call their moms when they were on the floor and got a new skill or they cried to me when they felt scared to try something and their mom was not there. I had a relationship with the coaches, other kids and parents. Reading this scared me a little because I hope I was never preceived as a "suck up" or a parent living through my child's accomplishments.

At my dd's gym in Japan, parents are not allowed to watch team workouts. They told me right up front and accepting it was one of the conditions to her being on team. There is a huge sliding door (no glass) so there is no peeking to be done. She is 9 now and I talked with her about it before we decided. She said that she was ready and would be fine...and she has been. I actually think it is better for our family now. It is amazing to go to a competition and see all her new skills executed for the first time. Her coach often videotapes practice and sends it home to parents so we can see what they are working on. She also pops her head out at pick-up if she needs to tell me something. My dd is at the gym for about 4 hours/day 6 days a week so it is good that I leave and do other things and I think it has changed my perspective on how I will behave when we return to the US.

I really think we all have to do what is best for our child and our family and "what is best" may change as our dd's get older and more confident in their gymnastics. There is no right or wrong formula in this case.
 
I'm not a parent I'm a gymnast but I feel like the parents that are too far are the ones yelling at their child after the kid has a bad practice when the kid isn't like being hard on their self about it. If I had a bad practice I no it and I'm like disappointed and I don't need parents yelling at me for that. At my gym we don't have anywhere where parents can watch and I think thats beneficial for us.
The parents that are too involved are the ones that are making their kids still do gymnastics even when the kids are burnt out and want to quit....................
 
Like I said earlier, going to meets, watching practice, encouraging your kid's hard work, this is all stuff that parents can do, and should do. As far as the gymnasts' training is concerned, that's the parents job; to provide support and encouragement, and I can't imagine how there could be such a thing as too much of that.

"Too involved" is when the parents start stepping into the coaches' territory. Coaching their kids, bribing their kids, yelling at their kids when they don't do well.
 
I started gymnastics pretty late in life. I had always wanted to do gymnastics but transportation was a problem. I got there by meeting my grandma on a bus and she took me to gymnastics. I actually feel better having my grandma watch then my parents. My parents NEVER stay for a whole practice and rarely are in the gym more than once every six months. When I turned 16 and got my own car they didn't even have to pick me up from practice, and i use that time to think, sometimes about gymnastics and sometimes about everything but gymnastics. Ususally a walk into the house and grunt "food me" and they hand me food and then ask my to take a shower.

Maybe it's because my gym is so small but none of our parents watch whole practices I personally I consider that a bit too involved, but it's a much different situation. Gymnastics isn't life for people in my gym. We are laid back and it's fine if a gymnast misses a practice or two for soccer, homework, or plays. I guess watching practice would be fine and it edges on too involved when you watch DD's every move and you know exactly what skills they can and can't do.
 
This is a great question...........and some great answers! I think it's okay to watch practice sometimes. Watching practice ALL the time (and I hope those kids are only children) becomes the parents AND child's gymnastics, when it should be THEIR thing. Do you watch the classes at school? School is more important anyway right?

This would be a great question to ask in the gymnasts forum, I would love to hear their opinions!
 
It reminds me of George Carlin's famous routine about the two kinds of drivers on the road: jerks and maniacs. A jerk is anyone going slower than you, and a maniac is anyone going faster than you.
 
I guess the main reason I watch all the practices is that I'm overprotective. We hear about so many horrible things that can happen at the gym (everything from injuries to abuse) that I really feel like I need to be there in case anything happens. Please don't get me wrong. DD's coaches would NEVER abuse the girls. I'm thinking more of the possible injuries. Just last week a girl fell on the beam and broke her elbow. We live 35 minutes away from the gym. If that had been my DD, I wouldn't have wanted her waiting that long for me to get to her.

I do have two other kids, but I'm lucky that my DH and my parents are very helpful. My parents watch my youngest (5) until his daddy gets home from work. The oldest (almost 13) either comes with me to practice (if he's in trouble!) or stays home by himself. DH gets home usually within two hours of my leaving. The boys get some quality "guy time" with Dad while I'm at practice and, as I'm a stay-at-home mom, they see me plenty the rest of the time.

There's also the issue of drive time and gas. To drop her off, I'd have to drive 35 minutes down there and 35 minutes back home. Then do it again to pick her up. That's almost 2 1/2 hours of driving and around 120 miles, three days a week. No thank you. I'll bring my book and my mp3 player and hang out.
 
Quite honestly a parent that is "too involved" with their child really doesn't bother me because it doesn't affect me, but as other have mentioned before the caddiness - now that bothers me. I have felt it up in the observation room at the gym.

Let me set this up for all of you:

My dd and another girl this past season were usually the top 2 at the meet, but the other girl would always finish 1st and my dd would finish 2nd, except on bars, where my dd would usually finish 1st. The other girl is a much bigger girl than my dd and has a ton of power and it shows on her vault (she ended up being vault champion at State) and her tumbling on floor, but she is not graceful or dancy. My dd is the opposite, she is a dancy kind of gymnast who has beautiful leaps and turns, and while not as powerful, can execute her tumbling passes as necessary. My dd's vault had improved over the season, but never quite to the level of the other girl. Well, at States my dd finished 1st AA and her dd finished 3rd. All this mom did was complain to another mom, that they weren't rewarding for power on floor, that they were only looking at dance and that wasn't right because all season long her dd's scores were much higher. At awards, she never came over to congratulate my dd, never once mentioned her achievement. I thought that kind of stunk, but hey what can I say. I know that deep down, she thought her dd should have won.

Now in practice at the gym since States, this mom is there all the time because of their hour commute to the gym. I do not stay the whole practice, but am there enough to notice things. This mom will cheer every child in the gym and say oh look at that, she's beautiful doing this and that. She acts like she has never seen any gymnast do anything and it's not just here and there it is for everything that every body does all the time - it drives me crazy! It wouldn't be so bad if she wasn't so loud (and the cheering can be borderline obnoxious, especially when other moms join in on the cheering.) BUT when it comes to my child she will not say anything, unless it is negative. Does it bother me, yeah it does, but I don't say anything - I just figure that there must be some kind of jealously there on her behalf. My kid works hard and I think she is a beautiful gymnast, she continues to improve - that's the important thing, plus my dd has no idea she is like this.

I have to admit that I really enjoy the workouts when she is not there, it's quiet and peaceful. I would consider just putting on my ipod and ignoring all that goes on up there, but I do enjoy talking to the other moms.
 
Thought I would link this thread of from a while back....

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/parent-forum/7086-demeaning-parents-2.html

talking about the cattiness is what I was really targeting when I originally brought it up. I am floored by what some parents say about their dd's teammates... we have a real winner in our gym at the moment - for her involvement it is not just gym, it is school, other activities whatever. She obsesses about everything, buys the coaches gifts every week etc... this would be considered an over-involved parent to me.

Granny smith - your dd is an absolute beautiful gymmie - I am willing to bet you are correct in saying there is some jealousy there, which is so incredibly sad.
 
Being supportive and being "too involved" are 2 diff things!!
being suppoertive to me is being there to let them show me what they learned and let them be excited!! I will leave coaching to the coaches and be the proud paretns!! the only way I will step in would be if I felt my kid were going to get hurt!! (tho I feel soo safe where we are at)
I think going to all meets and seeing practices are a GOOD Thing!! I believe if parents support the kids they are better off!! I see in school where a kid doesnt have parent support and thye are not doing as well in school as the kids who have the support!! I also see kids grow as a person when they have that as well!!
when I think a parent has crossed the line is when the child is put down or also the coaches are not able to coach them cause the parents are too pushy!!

Hope that makes sense!!!
 
I think those kind of moms have been around forever (since I was a child, anyway!) and probably will always be, too.

I remember my mother used to call them the "ballet mothers" as the moms of my ballet class used to comment on everything that went on. They actually used to sit in the class on a row of chairs against the wall and WATCH EVERYTHING. Very intimidating it was too.

They were also constantly asking for additional private coaching so that when I arrived for our normal ballet class, they knew all the new dances and barre exercises before me. It was as if they could not ever be at the same standard of the class but always had to be one step ahead.

Anyway, that was about 35 years ago now (sob!) and I just have to roll my eyes at my mum and say "ballet mothers" and she knows exactly what I mean!!

:wave:
 
I always heard them called "stage mothers" and I think that kind of behavior is horrible. I will offer suggestions to my DD ("if you hold your tummy in tight, you'll have better balance") or remind her of something that helped her practice at home ('vertical' seems to be a great keyword for her on the beam) but I cannot imagine ever telling my child that she did badly or that she wasn't good enough. She works really hard and does her very best and no one should ever ask more of her than that. Any parent that would berate their child for not being good enough is absolutely horrible. That goes way beyond over-involvement. That's just plain mean. Tell them they didn't clean their room good enough but never, EVER tell a child that they aren't good enough.
 

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