WAG Where are the parents?

[MickeyDGym]

There has been a lot of discussions about abusive coaches anything from verbal abuse to physically assaulting gymnast. Where is the parent responsibility in this? How could they not know a coach is treating their child this way? Obviously the child didn’t feel comfortable telling the parent what was going on or the parent didn’t observe practice. I find this baffling. I keep thinking about the gymnast who injured herself so she couldn’t go to practice with Geddert. Are parents
chasing this Gymnastics dream for their kid they will do this at all cost. I don’t get it

 

[reluctant]

There has been a lot of discussions about abusive coaches anything from verbal abuse to physically assaulting gymnast. Where is the parent responsibility in this? How could they not know a coach is treating their child this way? Obviously the child didn’t feel comfortable telling the parent what was going on or the parent didn’t observe practice. I find this baffling. I keep thinking about the gymnast who injured herself so she couldn’t go to practice with Geddert. Are parents
chasing this Gymnastics dream for their kid they will do this at all cost. I don’t get it

We see all kinds of evidence here and on social media groups that parents lose their minds when it comes to chasing the dream. But more importantly, these abusers do a very good job earning the gymnasts trust and making them very very afraid or telling anyone what is going on. they normalize the behavior so the gymnasts think is OK, or think that they are at fault. It is never never never the gymnast's fault.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Part of our jobs as parents is to teach our children to question. To tell.
To honor their ick feelings. If it feels bad it probably is. To observe.

Sometimes as parents we need to save them from themselves. And remove them from a toxic environment.

So yes McDG I wonder too.

 

[Midwestmommy]

This sport has huge dropout rates over time. There are thousands and thousands of parents who pulled their kids from USAG team gymnastics or kids who wanted to quit. What percentage was due to how the athlete and parent were treated? Difficult to measure. Anecdotely, you get more of an earful when you talk to a parent of an ex-competitive gymnast than say an ex soccer player or ex hockey player. Mostly for hockey they don’t miss 530 am ice time. For gymnastics, you often get tales of mean coaches and trips to the orthopedic specialists.

 

[profmom]

I think parents can be the primary problem with the little ones who don't really have the agency and autonomy to make decisions for themselves. Once you have an older teenager, though, it gets trickier. You want them to own their sport and to manage their relationship with their coaches, and this can in some cases lead to their concealing bad experiences from their parents. I don't think there are very many L10s or elites who are continuing in gym because of their parents (there are a few to be sure, but I'm relatively confident that they are a small minority). That means that they are daily making a decision to continue to go in and knock themselves out to advance, and daily deciding how much pain it's worth to keep going. This doesn't mean they are necessarily going to make the best decisions because they ARE teenagers. But I don't think heavy parental monitoring is the answer. Look, if you are a sane parent, you are not going to hang around for 20+ hours of practice a week. That would be as unhealthy for the kid as it would be to have a completely disinvested parent. So just as with school, a lot of what goes on in the gym is not going to be known or observed by a parent who has a healthy relationship with their child.

This is a complex problem, and I think the best thing parents can do is inform themselves about the environment to which they are entrusting their children. That's why whenever people talk about gym switches around here, the advice is generally to look at meet results but also to spend some time as a parent in the gym observing practices to get a feel for the vibe. You also have to know your kid. Some of us have kids who need to be encouraged to toughen up a bit and accept coaches' negative feedback. Others have kids who need to learn to stand up for themselves and be more assertive. Still others have kids who need to be told not to talk back in destructive ways. Likewise, you probably have a sense of how your kid responds to pain and whether you need to intervene if they're the type to conceal injuries versus encouraging them to work through it a little more. Even with everything that's happened, I still think the best thing for parents to do is to choose the environment carefully and then try to give your kids what they need to protect themselves, recognizing that there may be very occasional times (diminishing as the child ages) when you need to step in.

And I don't think gym is worse than other sports. I really don't.

 

[B&M's mom]

I think parents can be the primary problem with the little ones who don't really have the agency and autonomy to make decisions for themselves. Once you have an older teenager, though, it gets trickier. You want them to own their sport and to manage their relationship with their coaches, and this can in some cases lead to their concealing bad experiences from their parents. I don't think there are very many L10s or elites who are continuing in gym because of their parents (there are a few to be sure, but I'm relatively confident that they are a small minority). That means that they are daily making a decision to continue to go in and knock themselves out to advance, and daily deciding how much pain it's worth to keep going. This doesn't mean they are necessarily going to make the best decisions because they ARE teenagers. But I don't think heavy parental monitoring is the answer. Look, if you are a sane parent, you are not going to hang around for 20+ hours of practice a week. That would be as unhealthy for the kid as it would be to have a completely disinvested parent. So just as with school, a lot of what goes on in the gym is not going to be known or observed by a parent who has a healthy relationship with their child.

This is a complex problem, and I think the best thing parents can do is inform themselves about the environment to which they are entrusting their children. That's why whenever people talk about gym switches around here, the advice is generally to look at meet results but also to spend some time as a parent in the gym observing practices to get a feel for the vibe. You also have to know your kid. Some of us have kids who need to be encouraged to toughen up a bit and accept coaches' negative feedback. Others have kids who need to learn to stand up for themselves and be more assertive. Still others have kids who need to be told not to talk back in destructive ways. Likewise, you probably have a sense of how your kid responds to pain and whether you need to intervene if they're the type to conceal injuries versus encouraging them to work through it a little more. Even with everything that's happened, I still think the best thing for parents to do is to choose the environment carefully and then try to give your kids what they need to protect themselves, recognizing that there may be very occasional times (diminishing as the child ages) when you need to step in.

And I don't think gym is worse than other sports. I really don't.

Thank you! I've tried to express this. I don't know of a parent who would willingly allow their child to be abused but sometimes the parents are the last to know.

 

[profmom]

Eh, I have two teenagers in my house and an older one in college. One is currently in that developmental stage in which any kind inquiry about anything serious or personal is met by a concrete wall topped with barbed wire with snipers behind it, fronted by a moat filled with sharks wielding laser beams.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Look, if you are a sane parent, you are not going to hang around for 20+ hours of practice a week. That would be as unhealthy for the kid as it would be to have a completely disinvested parent.

I’m going to hang around enough to know if a coach is abusive.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I think parents can be the primary problem with the little ones who don't really have the agency and autonomy to make decisions for themselves. Once you have an older teenager, though, it gets trickier. You want them to own their sport and to manage their relationship with their coaches, and this can in some cases lead to their concealing bad experiences from their parents. I don't think there are very many L10s or elites who are continuing in gym because of their parents (there are a few to be sure, but I'm relatively confident that they are a small minority). That means that they are daily making a decision to continue to go in and knock themselves out to advance, and daily deciding how much pain it's worth to keep going. This doesn't mean they are necessarily going to make the best decisions because they ARE teenagers. But I don't think heavy parental monitoring is the answer. Look, if you are a sane parent, you are not going to hang around for 20+ hours of practice a week. That would be as unhealthy for the kid as it would be to have a completely disinvested parent. So just as with school, a lot of what goes on in the gym is not going to be known or observed by a parent who has a healthy relationship with their child.

This is a complex problem, and I think the best thing parents can do is inform themselves about the environment to which they are entrusting their children. That's why whenever people talk about gym switches around here, the advice is generally to look at meet results but also to spend some time as a parent in the gym observing practices to get a feel for the vibe. You also have to know your kid. Some of us have kids who need to be encouraged to toughen up a bit and accept coaches' negative feedback. Others have kids who need to learn to stand up for themselves and be more assertive. Still others have kids who need to be told not to talk back in destructive ways. Likewise, you probably have a sense of how your kid responds to pain and whether you need to intervene if they're the type to conceal injuries versus encouraging them to work through it a little more. Even with everything that's happened, I still think the best thing for parents to do is to choose the environment carefully and then try to give your kids what they need to protect themselves, recognizing that there may be very occasional times (diminishing as the child ages) when you need to step in.

And I don't think gym is worse than other sports. I really don't.

I respectfully disagree. The huge hours at very young ages and push to learn the difficult and dangerous skills at a very young age before puberty for girls—these alone create an environment that needs to be monitored carefully.

This abuse scandal let some light in on the potential dangers. It is time to talk about how things can change, not to put our heads in the sand.

With the little ones, parents aren’t the primary problem, they are part of the problem involving all the adults. It’s a whole complex issue all adults involved that needs to be fixed. Also, I know kids/women in high levels in a couple sports.

Due to patient privacy/HIPAA, rate of injuries is not effectively tracked. But I do not believe for one second that female gymnastics does not have a much much higher rate of injury than other sports. Including injured kids under 13 years old. I know very few teen gymnasts that have not had an injury, and my daughter has seen kids with displaced fractures taken away in ambulances, and many many other injuries.

I know a couple of Olympic hockey players from a couple countries, and while of course there are injuries in that sport, it is nowhere even close to gymnastics. I think if we could truly see accurate statistics on injuries of children in competitive gymnastics it would be shocking.

 

[eucoach]

Eh, I have two teenagers in my house and an older one in college. One is currently in that developmental stage in which any kind inquiry about anything serious or personal is met by a concrete wall topped with barbed wire with snipers behind it, fronted by a moat filled with sharks wielding laser beams.

This!!!
I know tons of mothers who pride themselves in saying that their daughters tell them absolutely everything until they don't. Puberty changes the closest parent-child relationships and everyone claiming their child would definitely always tell them if they were abused, is delusional.

 

[eucoach]

I’m going to hang around enough to know if a coach is abusive.

Really? Can you hear what the coach says to your daughter all the time?
I had a coach once who would say the most belittling and horrible things with the calmest demeanor and a smile on his face. I would call that abuse.

 

[UnoMas]

Eh, I have two teenagers in my house and an older one in college. One is currently in that developmental stage in which any kind inquiry about anything serious or personal is met by a concrete wall topped with barbed wire with snipers behind it, fronted by a moat filled with sharks wielding laser beams.

I would like a T-shirt with that quote on it. Truth.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Really? Can you hear what the coach says to your daughter all the time?
I had a coach once who would say the most belittling and horrible things with the calmest demeanor and a smile on his face. I would call that abuse.

Yes I would know. There are body changes in kids. Personality changes. There are other parents and other kids. I might not hear every word. But there are signs and cues. There is a tone as to how practices goes, how injuries are handled, how parents are “handled”

I respect my “ick” factor. I would know.

And I operate from the assumption my kid will absolutely not tell me everything or anything.

 

[l.c.o]

As parents, we’ve been nothing but open with our kids. We’ve let them know we have their backs 100%. The one time my kid preemptively came to us with an issue, she ultimately asked to switch gyms, so she switched gyms.

That said, my child is older now, and the most I get in response to “did you have fun at practice? Are you still happy where you are?” Is an eye roll. I’m hopeful my kids would still come to me with an issue, but I can’t be sure. I get most information unsolicited through the gym grapevine.

Teenagers and preteens are not easy. I mean, yesterday my kid asked for popcorn after practice. I suggested a shower first, as it was getting late. Kid stomped up the stairs to shower, then refused to make popcorn after and gave me the silent treatment for an hour. Oh well. More for popcorn for me and DH later.

 

[profmom]

If only there were a way to know about injury rates, say from something like ER statistics.

http://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=sports-injury-statistics-90-P02787

Granted, this doesn't give us a fix on overuse injuries that would be more likely seen in an orthopedist's office and not tracked, but I am unwilling to state categorically based on this evidence that gymnastics is orders of magnitude worse than other sports. Certainly baseball is no stranger to such injuries.

If I were to extrapolate from my personal experience based on child-hours spent practicing and competing, soccer would be the bad guy. That's one example of why we shouldn't derive general conclusions from individual personal observations.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

My kid has had a couple of injuries and never been to an ER.

 

[l.c.o]

Anecdotally, my son has had many more minor injuries from baseball than any other sport (including gym). If you adjust for hours of practice, it increases even more.

And my DD has had more total (minor) injuries from gym class at school than gymnastics.

Edit: My DD is the one who has had a few gymnastics injuries. One acute and two overuse (and a couple more minor ‘overuse’ issues that resolved in a week or so). She also has never been to an ER (knock on wood!).

 

[Midwestmommy]

No one in our metro area goes to the ER for orthopedic injuries unless they are in an ambulance with a an obviously displaced fracture or a very serious injury or it is not between 7 am and 8pm. All of the decent orthopedic clinics have acute injury walk-in clinics (or roll in as their sign says)..

I disagree, just do. The amount of injuries in competitive gymnastics is very very high, much higher than soccer or hockey.

 

[profmom]

My kid has had a couple of injuries and never been to an ER.

Yessss, and that is true for my non-gymnast as well. I reiterate: "Granted, this doesn't give us a fix on overuse injuries that would be more likely seen in an orthopedist's office and not tracked, but I am unwilling to state categorically based on this evidence that gymnastics is orders of magnitude worse than other sports. Certainly baseball is no stranger to such injuries."

If you want to argue that, despite the ER evidence, gym is orders of magnitude worse, your argument must rest upon a hypothesis that gymnasts have a much, much higher rate of subclinical and non-emergency injuries than any other sport. Is that the claim?

I'm willing to entertain a hypothesis that gym injuries are tilted more toward chronic overuse causes and less toward impact injuries (after all, they aren't running into each other or throwing and kicking things at each other most of the time), but it's a big logical jump from there to the conclusion that therefore gym causes more injuries overall.

 

[reluctant]

No one in our metro area goes to the ER for orthopedic injuries unless they are in an ambulance with a an obviously displaced fracture or a very serious injury or it is not between 7 am and 8pm. All of the decent orthopedic clinics have acute injury walk-in clinics (or roll in as their sign says)..

I disagree, just do. The amount of injuries in competitive gymnastics is very very high, much higher than soccer or hockey.

Not scientific evidence, but my orthopedist who deals with tons of gymnasts says the rate of catstrophic injuries is highest with baseball players -- getting hit right in the chest or the head. I had no idea, I just assumed it was football. We spend a lot of time at the orthopedist with foot issues, but so do all our soccer-playing friends.