Which way am I twisting on my Barani?

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jra64

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Jun 24, 2008
44
I do my Baranis as if I am doing a left handed roundoff without any hands. Am I twisting to my left or to my right?

I am asking because I am learning front fulls and I can do them, but the reason I couldn't do them is because I was doing half a twist then the other half I was doing the opposite direction because I thought I was twisting the wrong direction in the first place.

I don't want to bias any answers so I didn't say what I thought which way I was twisting.

Lol, thanks!

=).
 
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Geoffrey Taucer

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A left-handed roundoff twists to the right, and vice-versa.

This is why it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT not to learn a front half as a roundoff with no hands, but rather as a front salto with a LATE half twist.

I can't find the statistic right now, but I remember a study circulating awhile back which concluded (if memory serves) that 70% of elite gymnasts rondoff left and twist left (in other words their roundoffs twist right, but all of their twisting skills twist left.)
 

lannamavity

Member
Sep 13, 2007
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way out West
A left-handed roundoff twists to the right, and vice-versa.

This is why it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT not to learn a front half as a roundoff with no hands, but rather as a front salto with a LATE half twist.

I can't find the statistic right now, but I remember a study circulating awhile back which concluded (if memory serves) that 70% of elite gymnasts rondoff left and twist left (in other words their roundoffs twist right, but all of their twisting skills twist left.)
Actually, Chinese and former Soviet athletes were trained to to a left hand roundoff and left twist only...but American athletes tend to form groups in the following order of highest incidence:

Rt Roundoff/Rt Twist
Lt Roundoff/Lt Twist
Rt Rounoff/Lt Twist
Lt Roundoff/Rt Twist

the latter two catagories do not have the ability to perform a "kasamatsu" style vault, which in some coaches' opinion is not optimal...

it would probably take forever to find the study...but it was from about four years ago.

But the most important thing is that a "barani" is a front with 1/2 before vertical, not a roundoff with no hands.
 

jra64

New Member
Jun 24, 2008
44
Thank you guys so much! You see I thought my Barani was a LEFT twist and therefore since I already had one left twisting move I learned ALL of the moves after that as a LEFT twist. I was trying to do my front full by twisting RIGHT and then left making me do a really weird frontflip!

I always felt that twisting right has always been more natural and I find it more natural to do half twists to the right.

Can I ask for a word of advice? Do you think I should just learn how to do my Barani with a left twist or do you think I should relearn all of my left twists and change them to go right?

This is discouraging because I based all the moves off of the twist of my Barani, and this whole time I thought my Barani twisted LEFT instead of RIGHT.

Thanks for the helpful posts!

Also, lannamavity did you get my private message?

Thanks!

Ryan.

EDIT:

Also, lannamavity, when you say: "Rt Roundoff" do you mean right HANDED roundoff or right TWISTING roundoff?

Because a right TWISTING roundoff is a LEFT handed roundoff and a right HANDED roundoff has a left twist. As I've just finally learned. I'm not about to mess it up now =).

I'm pretty sure you are saying:

Rt (handed) Roundoff (left twist) /Rt Twist
Lt (handed) Roundoff (right twist) /Lt Twist
Rt (handed) Rounoff (left twist) /Lt Twist
Lt (handed) Roundoff (right twist) /Rt Twist

Lol, sorry! I'm making this more confusing than it really is, aren't I?

Hahaha...
 

gymdog

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Good article - "Barani Confusion" (PDF)

I agree about learning a pike open half first. That's how I learned to front twist when I was having trouble with the twist direction. Once I could do pike open full, I learned a layout full and layout rudi. However I do twist left and RO right.
 

jra64

New Member
Jun 24, 2008
44
Finally, at least I'm not the only one with "Barani Confusion!" Luckily as the article suggests, you should learn all skills twisting one way, except the roundoff (which is exactly what I'm doing).

But, do you think the article suggests I should have a left handed roundoff (right twist) but when doing a barani I do a left twist instead? Or do you think that the Barani should be the same twisting direction as my roundoff? Does it even matter which way my skills twist because I've been wanting all my skills to twist a single direction.
 

jra64

New Member
Jun 24, 2008
44
OUCH, I just landed on my head doing a 3/4 front with a full twist on my trampoline...

When I first did the full twist I twisted left but had no orientation of how I was getting the full twist. Now that I understand my barani twisted right, I did a 3/4 front with a full twist easily. When I tried to go back left I didn't pay much attention to the somersault and landed flat on my head!

I heard a crack in my neck but it didn't hurt so I'm assuming it was just those cracks when you roll around your head but it was still scary as hell! At least I have more of an idea of where I am in the air instead of just remembering what my body did last time and throwing the exact same thing.

I really appreciate the posts here =).

I will have my front full in no time, now =).
 

gymdog

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Jul 5, 2007
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But, do you think the article suggests I should have a left handed roundoff (right twist) but when doing a barani I do a left twist instead? Or do you think that the Barani should be the same twisting direction as my roundoff? Does it even matter which way my skills twist because I've been wanting all my skills to twist a single direction.
I honestly don't think it matters. I RO right and twist left (front and back). However I think the article is implying the RO right/twist right is optimal for the reasons mentioned upthread like kaz vaulting. I think his point about tumbling out of 1.5 and 2.5 twists would be if you were doing that twist to a step out RO...otherwise I'm not sure where he's going with it.

I'm not sure where 3/4 fronts are coming in, but if you mean landing on your back this is likely to be causing you to drop down into the salto rather than stretching into it. I cannot in good faith advise anyone to learn this skill this way on a backyard trampoline.
 

jra64

New Member
Jun 24, 2008
44
Hmmm... so doing a 3/4 front with a full twist to my back will create bad habits? Should I just go straight to learning the front full from my feet, then?
 

maddiekate

Member
Aug 8, 2007
303
West Coast
Actually, Chinese and former Soviet athletes were trained to to a left hand roundoff and left twist only...but American athletes tend to form groups in the following order of highest incidence:

Rt Roundoff/Rt Twist
Lt Roundoff/Lt Twist
Rt Rounoff/Lt Twist
Lt Roundoff/Rt Twist

the latter two catagories do not have the ability to perform a "kasamatsu" style vault, which in some coaches' opinion is not optimal...

it would probably take forever to find the study...but it was from about four years ago.

But the most important thing is that a "barani" is a front with 1/2 before vertical, not a roundoff with no hands.
What is a kasamatsu vault?
 

gymkat

Active Member
Former Gymnast
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Jun 24, 2008
691
All of the optionals at my gym twist different ways forwards and backwards. I do a R roundoff, twist backwards to the R, and twist forwards to the L. I also do all of my twisting jumps to the L, except for cat leaps (which I don't really do anyway). I can't think of any of my teammates that go R or L both forwards and backwards. Whatever works, I guess.
 

jra64

New Member
Jun 24, 2008
44
I guess people just twist the way they wanna twist =).

One more question here, though for anybody that is willing to answer...

Even though I'm more comfortable twisting right on my Barani and Front Full, I am going to twist to the left on both of those skills from now on, because the rest of my skills twist left (except for roundoff, which should be the only exception).

Do you guys think I should change the twist direction?
 

Geoffrey Taucer

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What is a kasamatsu vault?
A Kazamatsu is similar to a tsuk full, but twists the opposite direction comming off the table as it does comming on. What this essentially means is that while a tsuk full is a 1/4-on to 1 1/4 off, a kazamatsu is a 1/4 on to 3/4 off. You don't have to twist as far, making the vault, in my opinion, easier.

What this means for training is that rather than learning a twisting tsuk as a full-out, they tend to learn it as more of an arabian half-out.

Preferences vary significantly from coach to coach and from gymnast to gymnast.

In my opinion, it's not important; they can twist whichever way they want, and they can roundoff whichever way they want. I do, however, require that they twist the same direction while flipping forwards as they do while flipping backwards.
 
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