Why do coaches do this to kids??

[gymmomtotwo]

Why oh why do coaches promise results from tryouts, evaluations, move ups etc. IN WRITING to children and then not follow through on time without any explanation. Do they not understand how important it is to the child? How painful it is to keep waiting when they have been promised an end to their anxiety? That even a negative is better than nothing so that the kid can deal with it and move on. To me it shows a complete lack of respect for the child as a person. They ask us to trust them with our child's well being and then they put them through so much by not giving an answer when they promise? Please if you are a coach and promise something by a certain date, please stand by it. There are children that are counting on you to do your job.

 

[bookworm]

What did they promise you?

 

[Aussie_coach]

It is awful that a coach would promise something in writing and then not follow through. But gymnastics can be a very unpredictable sport. A kid may seem like she is progressing easily to the next level and then all of a sudden hit a snag and go backwards. This can be frustrating for the coaches too.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

here's the thing...if parents would wise up and stop asking "when is my child going to move up" there wouldn't be this kind of issue in the 1st place. YOU may not have asked, but it is the 47687004876638697 others that have which has caused coaches/owners to 'jump the gun' cause they know they're going to get asked.

 

[mommyof1]

here's the thing...if parents would wise up and stop asking "when is my child going to move up" there wouldn't be this kind of issue in the 1st place. YOU may not have asked, but it is the 47687004876638697 others that have which has caused coaches/owners to 'jump the gun' cause they know they're going to get asked.

But the reason we parents ask you coaches that vexing question is that nobody tells us what the requirements and timelines are for move-ups. If we were clearly told, "here are the requirements for each level, and this is the date when you will be notified of move-ups," most of us would be patient and quit bugging you. It sounds like the original poster's gym tried to do the right thing by making the timeline for notifications clear, but then failed to follow through. That really isn't fair to the kids. Or the parents, who may need to know about practice schedules several months in advance so they can plan for after-school care and summer camps.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

we don't tell you because we CAN'T. there no NO WAY TO PREDICT the development of the gymnast. and there is NO WAY any of us want to sit down with you to explain that a full is a B and a stalder is a C and a yurchenko is a...understand? no time. and you wouldn't understand what we're talking about anyway. and there will never be a way or method to predict a timeline. the parent must educate themselves by being in the sport for several years. you can not or must not depend on us for that education. we're supposed to be coaching and then have some kind of life outside the gym.

you think up in Canada, or Australia, or Russia, or China, or the UK, or Brazil, or Romania, or Japan, or Poland, or France, or Ukraine, or Belarus that coaches are having these kind of mindless discussions with parents? NO. only here in the land of opportunity and the endless land of options.

and again, i type this with no attitude or malice. just attempting to educate all as to why there are all these things going wrong in my sport. and if coaches are promising you the sun and the moon and the next level? disingenuous is the appropriate and applicable word here. the OP's coaches have fallen in to the trap. and sometimes the trap will bite. that's all.

and as far as scheduling for summer camps and such, upper level coaches and their upper level gymnasts don't think about those things. their priorities are different and point to what needs to be done next and how to fit what we do in to a kids life so that they can have a modicum or normalcy. like being a regular kid.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Here's what happened. Child tries out (with others) for a higher level program within the gym. Child is given a sheet with a specific date when she will be notified by phone call the results of said tryout. Date passes without any communication. Days pass, child gets anxious and upset. Mother doesn't want to look like crazy gym mom, so posts a vent here rather than hurt DDs chances by calling and complaining.

or

Other DD coaches promise evaluations the week of _________________. The evaluations do not come out, but a couple of kids are moved up in front of everyone in warm up in practice. Parent wait another two weeks for evaluations to come out.

Noone can convince me that this is right. They expect their payment every month on the 1st. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to meet deadlines that they set. If I'm told to expect a phone call a certain date, it should happen. If evaluations are put in the newsletter to come out a certain week, they should come out. I'm not setting the dates, they are.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

you're absolutely right! should have never happened. they have fallen in to the parent coach cycle trap. it's maddening to the parent and frustrating for the kid. there is no correct or seamless way to do what they are doing and continuing what they do will end up hurting 1 or more kids in the long run.

 

[gymgal]

Gymmom, you are way too nice. I would have been on that phone or at the front desk a couple days after that first deadline. You are right. If they told you a certain date, they should abide by it. I would have asked for the sole purpose that maybe they left a message on the wrong voice mail.

As to mommyof1 its just not hat simple to provide checklists and timelines to the parents. So much more goes into whether a child is ready to live up than just having certain skills. But, as a parent, I really feel it is important for the hc to sit down with each girl and parent periodically to discuss her progress. While it takes a lot of time, it goes a long way in good communication. I think it also provides gymnasts and parents with realistic expectations.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

 

[flipflopcrystal]

i had a parent literally tell me yesterday (in what was SUPPOSED to be a positive meeting about his DD progressing nicely and that she is on the right track and needs to keep working hard and she will get where she wants to be...kind of meeting)....

the parenty literally said "i hope youre not holding her back because of technique or something"

yes. yes i am. that is the most important thing....for example, if your DD cannot accelerate down the vault runway, she cannot vault. plain and simple.

i know parents want the best for their kids and don't want to see them upset...but this is a clear case that the parent is just not understanding the complexity of gymnastics and the rate of which kids develop in the sport. i constantly feel almost bullied by parents in these situations because they just don't understand. parents just don't understand (Will Smith knows...)

for our parents, they know when we generally move kids up to the next level because they know when season starts....they know. so the constant asking on how the DD is doing and when they are "ready" is up to your DD. let her have some of the responsibility.... (i cannot keep your DD's arms straight on a backhansdpring, my coaching only goes so far!)

on that note, coaches should communicate with parents, and in turn, parents should communicate with coaches. in other words, have the communication be balanced. i will personally approach parents with issues (good and bad) about their kid on a regular basis, but if parents are doing most of the asking and no listening.....it becomes frustrating for the coaches (thats what i mean when i say being bullied). i feel pressured! are you actually trying to convince me to move your child up a level?

just remember, most of us coaches understand the sport and have been involved in it for the better part of our lives, mine being almost 25 years! so when a level 4 parent approaches me and says something like "i hope you're not holding her back because of technique or something"

i politely say "she just needs to keep working hard" when in my head i'm thinking "you have got to be kidding me"

in response to this post...the coaches obviously are avoiding the issue...and you should just ask. don't feel bad for asking about something you have been told you would receive and answer about.

coaches should not make concrete promises. we should live in the grey area!

(my posts seem to continue to grow, sorry for my rant within a rant)

 

[mommyof1]

we don't tell you because we CAN'T. there no NO WAY TO PREDICT the development of the gymnast. and there is NO WAY any of us want to sit down with you to explain that a full is a B and a stalder is a C and a yurchenko is a...understand? no time. and you wouldn't understand what we're talking about anyway. and there will never be a way or method to predict a timeline.

you think up in Canada, or Russia, or China, or the UK, or Brazil, or Romania, or Japan, or Poland, or France, or Ukraine, or Belarus that coaches are having these kind of mindless discussions with parents? NO. only here in the land of opportunity and the endless land of options.

and again, i type this with no attitude or malice. just attempting to educate all as to why there are all these things going wrong in my sport. and if coaches are promising you the sun and the moon and the next level? disingenuous is the appropriate and applicable word here. the OP's coaches have fallen in to the trap. and sometimes the trap will bite. that's all.

I understand that you can't predict a gymnast's developmental path, and that nobody becomes a coach because they want to spend hours discussing progress with parents. But when the gym has a structured system for advancement based on the competitive levels and the timing of the competitive season, gymnasts and parents want and need to know what is going on. If your policy is that kids can only start on preteam between June and December, we would like to know that so we don't spend the whole first half of the year worrying that our kid is never going to get a shot at preteam because she hasn't moved up when we saw two other kids move up in December. If your team is selected on the basis of tryouts, we would like to know what skills and qualities you are looking for and when the list will be posted or the letters will go out. What turns us into crazy gym parents is watching our kids work hard in a sport they love but be denied the opportunity to pursue it more seriously on the basis of what appears to be favoritism or the coach's whim, rather than skills and attitude. That's when we start hounding you for progress reports.

There is a whole body of emprical social science research on the concept of procedural justice demonstrating that people care very deeply about things like impartiality, respect for individuals, and the opportunity to be heard. In fact, if the decision-maker appears to follow fair procedures, to be impartial, to have respect for the people whom the decision will affect, and to afford those people the opportunity to be heard, people will generally accept unfavorable decisions. For coaches and gym owners, this means that if you make your requirements and procedures clear and transparent, parents will be happier and less annoying even when our kids *don't* get moved up. I don't want empty promises of the sun and the moon and the next level, but I do want to know what concerns you have about my kid and what your plan is for addressing them.

And yes, parents in China probably aren't allowed to hound coaches for updates. But here in the U.S., most families do not put their kids in gymnastics because we think they are going to be Olympians. We do it because we want them to get fit, learn to work hard, and have fun doing something they love. And I assume, or at least hope, that most American coaches got into coaching because they wanted to share their own love of gymnastics with kids, not because they think they are going to produce Olympic champions. In this type of inclusive system where the goal is to provide opportunities for many children to achieve to the limits of their individual capacity and not just to winnow down the field of participants to a medal-winning Olympic team, the relationship between coaches and parents will necessarily be different.

 

[mommyof1]

As to mommyof1 its just not hat simple to provide checklists and timelines to the parents. So much more goes into whether a child is ready to live up than just having certain skills. But, as a parent, I really feel it is important for the hc to sit down with each girl and parent periodically to discuss her progress. While it takes a lot of time, it goes a long way in good communication. I think it also provides gymnasts and parents with realistic expectations.

Individualized communication would be the best solution. But when the gym operates according to a timeline, it seems fair to let parents know what that timeline is, and to stick to it.

 

[mommyof1]

just remember, most of us coaches understand the sport and have been involved in it for the better part of our lives, mine being almost 25 years! so when a level 4 parent approaches me and says something like "i hope you're not holding her back because of technique or something"

i politely say "she just needs to keep working hard" when in my head i'm thinking "you have got to be kidding me"

See, as a parent, that answer tells me nothing, and will motivate me to keep bugging you. If you said "yes. yes i am [holding her back because of technique]. that is the most important thing....for example, if your DD cannot accelerate down the vault runway, she cannot vault. plain and simple." then I would be happy and leave you alone. At least for a while.

And now I think it is time for me to stop posting!

 

[flipflopcrystal]

See, as a parent, that answer tells me nothing, and will motivate me to keep bugging you. If you said "yes. yes i am [holding her back because of technique]. that is the most important thing....for example, if your DD cannot accelerate down the vault runway, she cannot vault. plain and simple." then I would be happy and leave you alone. At least for a while.

And now I think it is time for me to stop posting!

its not that I won't tell a parent that. it's that i HAVE told the parent that she needs to improve her running technique MANY times before. why i thought "you have to be kidding me" when asked because it is that the parent is not seeing this as an issue, nor is he seeing whether or not there is any improvement since like last time he asked...3 days ago LOL

and the fact that he asks why i'm holding her back?? (because of her technique).... and then literally saying "i hope its not her technique" it just is a point that the parent is just not understanding what it takes....or that its just not safe to move on with bad technique. which has ben communicated....many times.

i know the example was hard because everyone doesn't know the whole story, BUT the issue is communication. in this case it is all one sided. communication goes both ways! i LOVE to talk to parents that aren't so....overwhelming

so ask questions yes, but please don't ask the same, overly broad question, of how is my DD doing?? as always, she is probably doing very well...at her own rate, which may be different from others or what parents would LIKE to see.

i hope that makes sense. most coached want gymnastics to be FUN and SAFE and at the end of the day...successful!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

the above 4 posts clarifies exactly what i'm talking about with the parent/coach cycle trap. and back in the day...nobody asked these mindless and unproductive questions. this includes when i was an athlete. we worked out. we worked out almost every day. month after month. year after year. the coaches never saw a parent except at a competition. it was peaceful until after seoul 1988 and the introduction of the 10 level system. and the sport has departed to the land of no return. and our country became more entitled. too many opportunites, too many options and if i don't like my chicken wings i'm going down the street. this has hurt our industry in too many ways for me to list here today. but you guys post about most of them weekly. you just have no reference as to why things are the way they are today.

luckily, the sport hardens those in it the longest. i have witnessed parents evolve from where they were as helicopter parents to where they arrived with their gymnasts. it's a long and arduous road.

 

[mommyof1]

the above 4 posts clarifies exactly what i'm talking about with the parent/coach cycle trap. and back in the day...nobody asked these mindless and unproductive questions. this includes when i was an athlete. we worked out. we worked out almost every day. month after month. year after year. the coaches never saw a parent except at a competition. it was peaceful until after seoul 1988 and the introduction of the 10 level system. and the sport has departed to the land of no return. and our country became more entitled. too many opportunites, too many options

Well, I bet there are thousands of little girls and their moms out there who would disagree with you. What's so wrong about giving kids an opportunity to do something fun, rewarding, and character-building? They don't all need to win trophies. They just want the opportunity to go to that gym and work out and try their best and maybe have some competitions as a goal to work towards. And we as parents want to know that they are safe, happy, and working hard. It would be negligent parenting to just send our kids off somewhere for hours at a time without knowing what's going on. (See: recent threads on dive rolls, verbally abusive coaching)

Now, with apologies for having inadvertently hijacked this thread, I will REALLY stop.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

well, i prepared a lengthy response but i guess something timed out and it disappeared. took me 15 minutes. gotta go now. i can only assume that your daughter is under level 8. experience and time in the sport will better prepare you for beyond level 8 and if we revisit this in a couple of years it is more likely than not that you will feel/think differently.

to the OP, you are still absolutely right. your gym's systems are screwed up.

 

[Krystan]

It does seem like a no-win situation for parents. On the one hand, we're hearing: trust us with your kids, don't ask irrelevant questions about things you don't understand, we know what we're doing, just drop them off, only come to meets, and don't ask your kids about gymnastics. On the other hand, we're hearing about verbal abuse, dangerous & unsafe gym conditions and practices, and bullying from coaches where it seems we're *obligated* to take the kids out. How can we find out about the latter without ignoring the former? Obviously there is a fine line somewhere in between and every parent needs to decide where their comfort zone lies. I really can see both sides on this... I do think it should be okay to question and wonder and not blindly trust when it comes to my child. On the other hand, I would think that after several years progressing in a gym where you've had good experiences and the kids are happy, you should be able to hand most of your trust right over to them without question, unless something changes. Personally, I feel pretty comfortable approaching or calling my dd's coaches if I have a specific question that can't be answered by the secretary, but I really try to do this rarely (approx. twice a year?) - only if there's a major issue going on. I understand they are super-busy, know what they are doing, and have much else going on.

As for the OP, I don't blame you for being upset, and I don't think you would "hurt her chances" if you asked politely at the front desk when you could expect to hear the results.

 

[MaryA]

Parents need to know scheduling, plain and simple. If my child is an optional and all of the optionals practice the same hours, I think it's fine to say, "she's training 8, but if she doesn't get all of her 8 skills, she may end up competing 7 again." But if the level 4's and 5's practice at totally different times on totally different days, parents need to know when their kids will be practicing. Not to say that "moving up" or "not moving up" can't be a angst-laden topic for children and parents, but even all angst aside, we need to know what our kid's schedule is going to be, and the more advanced notice we have of this, the better.

 

[JessLW]

OP, I think you should just politely ask. Say something like "DD's sheet said we'd be notified by X date, and she's really anxious about the results. I understand if you haven't made a decision yet, but can I tell my child when she might expect an answer?" I don't think you'd hurt her chances if you were polite and reasonable. Now if you go in there all ragey saying "you said we'd hear by X date and we haven't heard yet! Is my daughter moving up or not!?" Then they might start thinking, uh oh, this one's crazy! But you're right, you and your kid were given a very specific date, in writing even, and it is wrong for them to let that date go by without a word. You would not have had those sorts of expectations had the gym not set them up for you.

As for parents in China ... some of you guys would be surprised. Crazy doesn't even begin to cover it!