WAG Xcel bronze to JO 4?

[Kelly99]

Sorry if this has been discussed already. I did a few searches but didn't find our situation or the posts were very old.

DD was invited to join JO level 3 last year but chose to do Xcel bronze instead. She has been in gymnastics since she was 2 but really fell in love with it this season. She definitely wants to switch over to JO for more gym time, higher level of coaching, etc. Our gym requires 2 36's AA during the season as well as 75% of the next level skills to move up (Xcel and JO). DD has exceeded this requirement and would move up to Silver if she stayed in Xcel. She turned 8 in December.

Is it possible to move to JO level 4 at this point? As far as I can tell from the requirements, she is only missing the kip and ROBHS,BHS, but I know those are huge! She just has her ROBHS but hasn't competed it and I don't know if she has tried the next part connected. I also don't know if they have been uptraining for the front handspring vault.

I know DD has it in her head that Level 3 would be a lateral move or even a step backwards but I also don't want her to be in over her head or get frustrated after a very successful first season in Bronze. Having said that, she is champing at the bit to learn more, wants to be in the gym more hours and wants to move ahead.

The level 3 girls practice at the same time as DD and from what I've seen all season, she is on par with most of their skills, a tad behind on the ROBHS and ahead on others.

I appreciate any feedback for this situation!

 

[Kelly99]

Back to add that our gym does have some history of moving from Xcel to JO but usually the higher levels. Our head coach took over the program just last sason and has mentioned using Xcel bronze as an entry to competition and getting their feet wet as well as for the girls too young to compete JO.

 

[sce]

I would not say level 3 is exactly a lateral move, level 4 is a big jump the robhsbhs, kip and vault are a big jump. If she has not competed the robhs, that is a skill required for level 3.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

I think that would be a huge jump. Every gym does Xcel differently, but with the skills she has, I would say doing silver and then going over to 4 would be a much better progression. Three may very well feel boring, but 4 would be a big jump.

 

[coachmolly]

How big of a jump it is will depend on how your gym utilizes the Xcel program. At a past gym our kids did skills at the highest end of each level and I would say about 1/4 of my Bronze kids could have made the jump to JO level 4 without too much trouble, another 1/4 probably could have made it work with a little bit of struggle on an event or two. So if your daughter was competing higher level skills than what is required in Bronze (full handstand on beam, ro-bhs on floor), it's not out of the realm of possibility with lots of hard work put in over the summer.
I would talk to the HC and see if it even is a possibility and then start working on a plan to get her there, but being prepared to accept a different answer than the one you want- either a year at Silver or a year at level 3.
I think for many kids who start in Xcel the biggest change will be the compulsory routines and the precision they require which can prove to be incredibly frustrating for some kids who want to focus on skills rather than getting their foot in the exact correct position on a turn.

 

[FlippinPrincess]

I agree with Sk8ermaiden. There is another thread where they discuss using silver instead of level 3 to upgrade skills to be better prepared for level 4. My daughter's gym competes level 3 but doesn't focus on perfecting it. They do a lot of upgrading so she already has all level 4 skills except the actual jump to the high bar. They just started working that with her last week. We're new to this sport but from everything I have read, Xcel silver is closer skill wise to level 3 so Bronze to 3 or Silver would be a "typical" progression and not a step backward. Keep in mind, 3 does compete the shoot through and stride circle on bars. Not sure if your daughter has those, but they are awful and would be a good reason to go Silver and start focusing on the kip instead (just my opinion ).

 

[TumbleTimes4]

My DD went from bronze to level 3 and while she had all required skills for 3, it was still an adjustment because the JO program is tougher on the requirements compared to Xcel. So she still had a fair bit of cleaning up to do when she switched. She is competing 4 this season and I honestly think that she is enjoying some success because of the year she spent in 3. We’ve noticed that going to 4 is a big jump even from 3, and there are a lot of girls that compete 4 that we have noticed really struggle, particularly on bars and vault.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Depends on how your gym trains and up trains.

As it’s the beginning of up training season in most gyms it really is too soon to say what she will have by the start of the upcoming season. The best place to get answers to if it’s possible at your gym is to ask at your gym.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Sorry if this has been discussed already. I did a few searches but didn't find our situation or the posts were very old.

DD was invited to join JO level 3 last year but chose to do Xcel bronze instead. She has been in gymnastics since she was 2 but really fell in love with it this season. She definitely wants to switch over to JO for more gym time, higher level of coaching, etc. Our gym requires 2 36's AA during the season as well as 75% of the next level skills to move up (Xcel and JO). DD has exceeded this requirement and would move up to Silver if she stayed in Xcel. She turned 8 in December.

Is it possible to move to JO level 4 at this point? As far as I can tell from the requirements, she is only missing the kip and ROBHS,BHS, but I know those are huge! She just has her ROBHS but hasn't competed it and I don't know if she has tried the next part connected. I also don't know if they have been uptraining for the front handspring vault.

I know DD has it in her head that Level 3 would be a lateral move or even a step backwards but I also don't want her to be in over her head or get frustrated after a very successful first season in Bronze. Having said that, she is champing at the bit to learn more, wants to be in the gym more hours and wants to move ahead.

The level 3 girls practice at the same time as DD and from what I've seen all season, she is on par with most of their skills, a tad behind on the ROBHS and ahead on others.

I appreciate any feedback for this situation!

Level 3 is not a step back from Bronze, it’s a step up. I don’t understand how it’s a step back. Level 4 is a huge jump, even from level 3. Does she have tap swings? Can she jump to the high bar and kip on both bars? Are her casts at horizontal? She will be vaulting over the table to her feet with angle of repulsion deductions, quite a jump from a handstand flatback. On beam she will need a 120 degree split leap, sisson, handstand to vertical held for 1 second with feet together, half turn on 1 foot on high toe, a cartwheel, and cartwheel to side handstand vertical hold for 1 second 1/4 twist dismount. On floor she does need her ROBHSBHS, but also a front handspring, leap to 120, and back extension roll to handstand with straight arms. These last 3 skills incur many deductions.

Also, there are not many deductions in bronze, so scores are incredibly high. Levels 3 and 4 have lots of deductions that add up. Gold is generally considered close to level 4, but even then the lack of deductions, lower split angles, and no repulsion on vault means golds generally have higher scores.you want her to be on a level where she can compete competently and safely, so I would leave it up to her coaches as they should place her where she is best qualified to compete.

 

[twinmomma]

My DD made the move from Xcel Bronze to JO3. It was a big step for her. And in NO WAY did Bronze prepare her for JO4. Now, it may just be how it was used at our former gym, but Bronze to 3 makes the most sense to me, or Silver to 4. Bronze to 4 would be for an exceptionally strong Bronze athlete who did a lot of uptraining.

 

[RTT2]

DD did Bronze to L4. It was a big jump, but she picked up the skills fairly quickly. Biggest thing is definitely the difference in scoring and getting used to perfecting all of the small details.

 

[Musicmama]

All right. My response will probably get long, but my daughter did this successfully. This is just one example of that move working out and I'm going to present some things for you to keep in mind when you think about your daughter's situation. I'm not going to sugarcoat and in the end I'm going to tell you to defer to her coaches.

My dd moved from XB to L4 three years ago and has consistently moved up one JO level each year since then so it was definitely the right decision. She started practicing with the Xcel Silver girls starting midway through her XB season so that she could uptrain more than the XB practices were allowing for, and her XB routines were roughly the same difficulty as JO L3 routines for both floor and beam.

Despite her XB beam/floor routines being comparable to the JO L3 routines, we found that the scoring in Xcel is not nearly as rigorous as the scoring in JO. She had been used to extremely high scores in XB and had to get used to much lower scores in L4, even on the events where she didn't have a huge difficulty jump. That was sometimes very discouraging despite my dd having a great deal of inner drive for this sport.

Bars was a HUGE difficulty jump -- basically from the L1 routine to the L4 routine -- and she really only this year (at L6) has fully caught up to the rest of her team on bars. She recently received her very first JO score of 9 on bars, which was so exciting! Her first 9 on bars in nearly three years!

So... I guess I'd sum it all up to say that it CAN be done if the circumstances are right, but it wasn't an easy thing even under pretty ideal circumstances. As you can see above, my daughter also isn't the only one to have done this. It's not done often, as far as I can tell, but it can be done.

That said, maybe you read through what I wrote and it sounds like perhaps this move isn't going to be the right one for your daughter OR maybe you'll talk to her coaches and they won't give L4 as an option. So I want to join the chorus reassuring you that moving to L3 from XB is not at all a step back or even lateral! XB encompasses L1-3 skills but, due to the differences in scoring, even if she's competing the most difficult routines in XB then L3 may still be a fair step up in difficulty. There are many factors to take into account.

And so, as promised above, I recommend deferring to her coaches about whether L3 or L4 (or even XS with an eye towards L4 the next year) would be better. Let them know that your dd really wants to move over to JO and ask what they would recommend. They should have a much better idea than anyone else what she's capable of and ready for. Even moving from XB to L3 can be a difficult jump because of the differences in expectations and practice times and scoring between Xcel and JO.

Regardless of what happens, I hope it goes well and that your dd and her coaches will be on the same page and happy with the decision!

 

[spider_monkey]

It really all depends on the child and gym but...My dd moved from XG to 4 at the beginning of last year, and even though she solidly had floor and vault skills, the bars were really hard on her. She got her kip over the summer before her season, and it was not great by November when they competed. Bars do not come easily for her. Also, that dang cartwheel on beam! She can do BWO and BHS all day long, but don't make the kid do a cartwheel on the beam. It really does depend on what the individual child is able to do and how well they pick up new skills, also how hard they are willing to work!

 

[RTT2]

This thread reminds me of the way I agonized over the move when DD was doing it, and relied on the wisdom here to help me sort through things. CB is such a great resource!

 

[DebraNC]

Our gym was considering switching from xcel to JO for compulsories after we had some coaching changes. The decision not to was because of some of the concerns addressed in this thread. We will continue to have some girls score out of 4 and 5 and move to level 6 or stay in xcel for platinum and diamond. Bars was the biggest concern I had. My kiddo is xcel bronze, but does compete a ROBHS and a handstand on beam. I wouldn't be as worried about vault since silver is a front handspring over mats though I think JO 4 is on the table. Silver may be an option and up train bar skills since there is not a huge difference between bronze and silver bar routine.

 

[CoachAlex]

We have Xcel and JO - our Xcel Bronze usually go to Xcel Silver, HOWEVER we do use Bronze as our “feeder” team for JO Level 3. While Bronze to JO3 could be considered a lateral move, I would definitely not consider it a step back unless you had a gymnast who had the majority of their level 4 skills. Also, while the skills are similar, judging is much more technical at JO3 than at Xcel Bronze. Since it sounds like your gym is open to girls moving from Xcel to JO (not every gym allows this) you should talk to your daughters coach (assuming you are at a gym where you can ask these questions - where I coach you can, and as a coach I would much prefer parents just ask questions that they have about the sport/their kid/etc - I realize not every gym is like that).

 

[Peachy88]

My dd made the move from level 3 to level 4 two months ago and had all of the skills except vault, kip, and cartwheel on beam, or so I thought. It turns out there is much more than just the kip on bars. The tap swings, under swing, and general cast height have been eye opening for her. She has had two backhand springs for over a year so floor isn’t an issue but lots to work on on the other three events. How many hours does this gym do at level 4? If it isn’t a lot I would consider encouraging doing level 3 and hopefully they do a lot of up training.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Bronze to 3 makes the most sense to me, or Silver to 4. Bronze to 4 would be for an exceptionally strong Bronze athlete who did a lot of uptraining.

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[sevenatenine2]

I am going to take my current Level 1 athletes Bronze next year, and I see that as (almost) a lateral move. I think Bronze is generally more between Level 1 and Level 2, with Level 2 being the more difficult of the two. Of course, your daughter could be doing skills above Bronze.

I would think Bronze to 3 would lead to a more succesful year. Even 3 to 4 is a big jump, and I think we can all agree that 3 is more advanced than bronze.

Just my opinion. I hope whatever option you chose works well for you!

 

[CLgym]

Mine switched gyms and went from Bronze to JO4 (at age 7 almost 8). She had randomly picked up her kip while in Bronze and had competed a ROBHS -- although honestly neither was pretty! Level 4 was okay -- usually a couple of medals at each meet and finished 7th AA (3rd beam, 5th bars) at State. Scored out of L5 and competed L6. Level 6 was also okay -- usually top 3 on bars, and finished 4th AA (2nd bars) at State. This year is Level 7 (age 10) -- and once again just okay. Bars continues to be a strength and she always medals there (sometimes even 1st or 2nd place). Everything else is a little hit or miss. I guess I would describe her as middle of the pack (albeit in usually the hardest/youngest age group with lots of little super stars).

Here's the thing.... I'm beginning to wonder whether she has maybe moved too quickly without having a super strong foundation under her. Many of the girls she competes against started gymnastics young, were quickly identified as having potential, and received strong training early on (TOPs, etc.). Mine started at age 6, and then competed a "fun" year of Xcel Bronze at age 7. She doesn't have the same background and I suspect she will have to start repeating levels soon -- if not Level 7, then probably Level 8. In some areas she is having to step back to get form issues corrected.

So to me the question is not "can" the gymnast move from Bronze to JO4, but "should" they.... In some ways, my DD is a success story re: the Bronze to JO4 move. But in other ways she is a cautionary tale.