WAG Yurchenko vs. Tsuk - which one is harder?

[mandy]

Is a tsukahara or a yurchenko easier to learn? which one has a higher value?

DD started with tsuks last week, although she is only L6. All of the girls could do them into the pit.

After practice she told me her coach said that tsuk is something really hard. It might look easy into the pit, but it takes a lot of timing and practice before you can do and stick it, without breaking your ankles!

Is this true? Waht about yurchenkos?

 

[profmom]

Depends on the kid. Both tucked Tsuks and Yurchenkos have a 9.8 SV in Level 8. My impression is that the Tsuk is better for long-term progression if a child is a very powerful vaulter with great speed and blocking, and a child with less power but sufficient finesse can get further with the Yurchenko.

 

[mandy]

Depends on the kid. Both tucked Tsuks and Yurchenkos have a 9.8 SV in Level 8. My impression is that the Tsuk is better for long-term progression if a child is a very powerful vaulter with great speed and blocking, and a child with less power but sufficient finesse can get further with the Yurchenko.

But isn't a yurchenko so much harder???

 

[Quadqueen]

But isn't a yurchenko so much harder???

Depends on the kid, like profmom said. It also depends on the coaches/gym, as far as which vault they do. Many train kids on both and see which one they perform better, and some coaches think yurchenko is the only way to go.

 

[sevenatenine2]

I think the round off entry of the Yurchenko can be tricky, but once mastered, it makes the flipping part of the vault easier because it provides more power.

The Tsuk is a vault you are not going to be able to make around unless you have a lot of natural power because you don't get the extra momentum the roundoff provides.

 

[3rd_time_around]

The Tsuk is not necessarily harder, but you need to be very powerful. Obviously there's a reason you see mostly Yurchenkos and rarely a Tsuk at higher levels. The Tsuk used to be worth more--a full twisting Tsuk was worth 10.1 while a FTY was a only a 10.0. But of course that has changed, probably because someone complained while not understanding the difference in difficulty.

 

[mandy]

Ok thank you! So is it true, that it is a lot easier to do a tsuk into pit, because the landing is the hardest?

Isn't it a lot harder to do a back handspring on vault like in the yurchenko? To me, this seems so hard, whereas the tsuk looks like a round-off with a back tuck....

The Tsuk is not necessarily harder, but you need to be very powerful. Obviously there's a reason you see mostly Yurchenkos and rarely a Tsuk at higher levels. The Tsuk used to be worth more--a full twisting Tsuk was worth 10.1 while a FTY was a only a 10.0. But of course that has changed, probably because someone complained while not understanding the difference in difficulty.[/QUOT

 

[Seeker]

Yurchenko entry is more technical....it's about timing and getting everything happening when/where it needs to, but it does allow the gymnast the ability to gain some power from the RO. Tsuk's -- it's harder to generate the power because you don't have the benefit of the RO momentum going into it. If you don't have enough power, you won't rotate around enough or at the right time to land properly, hence the ankle breaking statement above.

That being said -- my DD is small, not a power gymmie by any means and she has trained both (drills and over table into pit -- never landed one on a real mat yet) and she prefers the Yurchenko. That is what they're planning for her to compete in L8.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Ok thank you! So is it true, that it is a lot easier to do a tsuk into pit, because the landing is the hardest?

Isn't it a lot harder to do a back handspring on vault like in the yurchenko? To me, this seems so hard, whereas the tsuk looks like a round-off with a back tuck....

No, tsuks are not easier. there's a half twist on the vault onto the hands, then a half twist off with a flip of some sort, and a twist to have a high start value. The "BHS" onto the table isn't as hard as it looks because of the round-off entry giving the power into it, and more spring off. It's easier for most gymnasts. Hence, you rarely see a Tsuk at college or higher, and when you do it's like, "Hey! that was something different!" My dd could never do the Yurchenko well because of elbow injuries.

 

[Aussie_coach]

In the FIG code of points Tsukahara is worth more than a Yurchenko. You will get a 0.2 higher starts value for doing a tucked Tsukahara than for a tucked yurchenko.

So according to international standards Tsukahara is harder.

 

[LizzieLac]

All of our 6s and 7s are training tsuks. The half on-half off part "seems" easy. What is hard is adding a back tuck to the half off part and then landing on your feet!

 

[mandy]

All of our 6s and 7s are training tsuks. The half on-half off part "seems" easy. What is hard is adding a back tuck to the half off part and then landing on your feet!

Thank you! This must be what DD meant... the movement itself is not so hard, but getting enough power to jump high enough to land on your feet again is what makes it difficult...

 

[vagymmomma]

Agree that it depends on the gymnast. Mine took to tsuks last year like bees to honey, but she's all power. Our 9s and 10s do a mix of vaults including tsuks, yuris, and front fronts). All our optional gymnasts are also working yurchenkos during the off season (a number never could get the timing on the tsuks although that is the typical vault for our L8 girls). DD is actually doing pretty well on the yurchenko training as well, but I doubt they'll switch her at this point since she already has her LO tsuk.

This is a little off topic, but does anyone know for NCAA purposes if full twisting yurchenkos and FT tsuks have the same start value? Just curious.

 

[gymgal]

I would love to hear some more coach opinions on this. I saw far more tsuks this year for L8 and yet by level 9 and 10, you see more yurchenkos. Given this, seem like the tsuk is easier to learn initially. Now, it may not be the case once you have to start adding the full to it, or even just a LO but to just learn it and be prepared for L8? I would have think the tsuk is easier.

 

[Natasha]

My dd started the season (L8) competing a tusk (tuck), then competed Yurchenko for 2 meets and then went back to the tusk. She is not a power gymnast, so while she could safely land the tusk, is was usually not with her chest up, but scored a low 9. Her Yurchenko was better as it gave her more power, but the entry takes a long time to learn as you need to be precise to get a good block off the horse. She tried to flip the Yurchenko at a meet warm up on a vault that she came in too high and did not get a good block and landed on the back of her neck…very scary to watch. So she is now doing lots and lots of timers and flipping it with a spot.

 

[vagymmomma]

I would love to hear some more coach opinions on this. I saw far more tsuks this year for L8 and yet by level 9 and 10, you see more yurchenkos. Given this, seem like the tsuk is easier to learn initially. Now, it may not be the case once you have to start adding the full to it, or even just a LO but to just learn it and be prepared for L8? I would have think the tsuk is easier.

I'm not a coach and no idea what's easier, but I thought it was about 50/50 between the tsuk and yuri at L8 for those doing flipping vaults. Seems to vary somewhat by gym preference. I was most surprised at how many girls were still doing variations of the HS vault though (1/2 on - 1/2 off, plain HS, et al - not flipping). LO tsuk must be tougher because only 2 of our girls are planning on competing them. The rest are working on yurchenkos (after competing tsuks at L8).

 

[iwannacoach]

Tsuks can be finessed as long as there's enough speed in the run and everything else happens with..... uhmmm, finesse? The same thing is true of the Yuri because the run is what determines any vault's success or failure. So no run equals a lousy salto no matter how it gets entered.

One advantage of the Yuri is it gets the bulk of the mechanical problems solved prior to contact with the table. That makes the Yuri a good choice so for a child who's vestibular gifts allow predictable backward/upward flight at 22 (ish) feet per second into a consistently correct blocking position. All that and a well polished round off done at the end of a full out (sorta) run.

With a little luck, a kid with a good L7 handspring and no other vault specific training will be able to reasonable compete a Tsuk the following season. The Yurchencko may look ready for next season, but that's about as far as I'd let it go, so if they want to move from L7 to L8 and take a Yuchencko with them they need to start progressions when they move up to L7.

 

[JBS]

Are we talking about learning into loose foam or landing it?

 

[BlairBob]

One HC once told me " Good round-off, train Yurchenko. Bad round-off, can train Tsuk."

Obviously Tsuk and Front Hand vaults will require a powerful vaulter with a good run whereas a less powerful vaulter with good back tumbling can manage with Yurchenko.

The only exception to this is if you have a vaulter who can Handspring twist exceptionally for multiple twists off a handspring and land it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Is a tsukahara or a yurchenko easier to learn? which one has a higher value?

DD started with tsuks last week, although she is only L6. All of the girls could do them into the pit.

After practice she told me her coach said that tsuk is something really hard. It might look easy into the pit, but it takes a lot of timing and practice before you can do and stick it, without breaking your ankles!

Is this true? Waht about yurchenkos?

stupid coach says that...*dunno stabs himself in the eye upon reading that*