Parents Opinion: Throw the harder skill ...or rock the easy one in final meet?

[JoyAvenueMom]

So...I posted earlier about dd competing "above" her level and my husbands difficulty in swallowing a last place finish meet after meet. (On that note, hubby is finally coming around!) Our team competes both AAU and a state-wide, non sanctioned program. Our "state" meet is this weekend. DD is 8 yo and competes in an "Excel Bronze" which is similar to L4/L5. Until now, she was getting a spot on her kip, and did not do a bar change. As of a month ago, she has both kips and the squat-on has magically returned (it was missing). The cartwheel on beam has also been making guest appearances (it was solid for 8 months before disappearing also). So, she has a chance at finishing somewhere north of dead last this weekend. Except for this one pesky problem....this level allows a choice of the L4 flat back vault, or the handspring vault. DD has been competing the handspring vault...and getting 8.0 -8.8. More than half of the girls in her age division compete a flat back...and score 9.4-9.8! As none of us expected her to score well this year, I never considered asking the coach to let her compete the L4 vault. Even if she does the easier vault, it's not a guarantee she will place well...but she doesn't have much of a chance otherwise. DD has little knowledge of the scoring, nor does she really care...but placing second to last with a 36+ would be a great end to this challenging season. Coaches are welcome to chime in on this one as well...I don't know if practicing the flat back vault for two days would make a difference anyway. I really don't want to mettle...I trust the coach, but she has never mentioned the vault choice. So, do I keep my mouth shut, or ask about the option?

 

[wallflower]

I would keep my mouth shut. It won't make a significant difference. I know you know this, but it's not about winning at this stage of the game. It's about progress. So if the coaches have chosen to have her do the harder vault all season that was their choice and I wouldn't stick my nose in.

 

[EastCoastGymMom]

I'd stay out of it, but given the option I'd rather my own daughter stick with the handspring vault, not the L4 handstand flatback. I think the handstand flatback is trickier than it looks, and there's no point wasting her time on it now if she hasn't been competing it all year. It may be tough for her to even learn it if she's been doing the handspring all year anyway. Good luck to her at States!!!!

 

[IreneKa]

Xcel bronze? Kips? Cartwheel on beam? Really?
My DD is also 8, competing at xcel bronze state meet this weekend. I hope we are not in the same session.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

Xcel bronze? Kips? Cartwheel on beam? Really?
My DD is also 8, competing at xcel bronze state meet this weekend. I hope we are not in the same session.

Don't worry....we aren't in USAG....which is why it's confusing. I have never actually seen the list of requirements for this level....I was just told it's like L4/L5...I am guessing it is a LOT like AAU Novice Optionals. For example, girls can do either a pullover or a kip, but everyone in her age group is doing a kip. When you watch the routines...it's like a level 5 Optional competition!

 

[IreneKa]

Don't worry....we aren't in USAG....which is why it's confusing. I have never actually seen the list of requirements for this level....I was just told it's like L4/L5...I am guessing it is a LOT like AAU Novice Optionals. For example, girls can do either a pullover or a kip, but everyone in her age group is doing a kip. When you watch the routines...it's like a level 5 Optional competition!

Whew! You got me worried. Our bronze level is more like L3.

 

[sglemon]

This is my humble opinion. This is the state meet. Why are you going? Most go to win something. Personally, I feel if she can't do the 5 skills well, with good form, I would take them out. Leave the vault as is, since she has been doing it all year and scale back the rest. The girl who will win will be doing the minimum requirements. Anything extra added, gives more area for judges to deduct points from. My dd competed in the Vaop Novice division, several years ago. ( like xcel) She had all of her level 4 skills, BHS, shoot through, FHC, etc... We took everything out of her floor, she did like a cart wheel, forward roll, etc... And scored a 9.6, placed 3 rd to similar routines. We almost took everything out of her bars, but the coaches decided to leave the mill circle for her in and the level 4 dismount, since hers were good. Well, she came in 3 rd on bars(9.45), by .25 because the first 2 places had neither of those skills in their routine. If we were to do it again, those 2 skills would be out of there. Several years later it makes no difference in what she competed in, in one state meet, 4 years ago, but the girl who won bars, has her state champion banner on the wall of our gym, as a reminder.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

This is my humble opinion. This is the state meet. Why are you going? Most go to win something. Personally, I feel if she can't do the 5 skills well, with good form, I would take them out. Leave the vault as is, since she has been doing it all year and scale back the rest. The girl who will win will be doing the minimum requirements. Anything extra added, gives more area for judges to deduct points from. My dd competed in the Vaop Novice division, several years ago. ( like xcel) She had all of her level 4 skills, BHS, shoot through, FHC, etc... We took everything out of her floor, she did like a cart wheel, forward roll, etc... And scored a 9.6, placed 3 rd to similar routines. We almost took everything out of her bars, but the coaches decided to leave the mill circle for her in and the level 4 dismount, since hers were good. Well, she came in 3 rd on bars(9.45), by .25 because the first 2 places had neither of those skills in their routine. If we were to do it again, those 2 skills would be out of there. Several years later it makes no difference in what she competed in, in one state meet, 4 years ago, but the girl who won bars, has her state champion banner on the wall of our gym, as a reminder.

OUCH! that was painful! I think I understand what you are talking about, at our AAU meets, my DD has occasionally scored higher (albeit not high) than some of her team mates because her routines were very minimal. Her start value was lower (sometimes about a 9.0 because of missing elements) but she had no major mistakes. Unfortunately, I don't have a list of the requirements for this level. You could very well be correct about doing better with "minimum", but I wouldn't know what that is. Her age group has had the highest average scores of all the age groups...it's a tough division. I would guess most of them could have competed L5 this year, where DD would have competed L4 again. So, it's hard to say what dd is losing points for, missing elements or poor execution, and the coach is not big on communicating. sigh. I agree with the consensus to keep my mouth shut about the vault. She has had a couple of good vaults this year, and her progress has been fun to watch.

 

[SignHere]

I'm going to chime in with a totally politically incorrect opinion. Leave the coaching to her coach!! Are you the choreographer? Or the coach? No? Then leave it alone! I'm sorry, but the kids who win at the totally easy levels are not necessarily the ones who are winning next year.

Go to the meet... Buy your DD flowers or a shout out, and if she's not currently fixated on placement or scores, thank your lucky stars! Is she is, use this as a learning experience about good sportsmanship and be tankful the season is over.

If you don't like how your gym does things, find a new gym next season, but I think you'll find you have a much stronger gymnast next year. That handspring vault isn't easy to learn, and next year, your DD will be getting 9s, and all those kids who were doing the handstand flat back will be attempting the handspring and getting the 8s - a year behind your DD. Hopefully, your DD will also be ready for yurchencko vaults a year earlier, too.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

I'm going to chime in with a totally politically incorrect opinion. Leave the coaching to her coach!! Are you the choreographer? Or the coach? No? Then leave it alone! I'm sorry, but the kids who win at the totally easy levels are not necessarily the ones who are winning next year.

Go to the meet... Buy your DD flowers or a shout out, and if she's not currently fixated on placement or scores, thank your lucky stars! Is she is, use this as a learning experience about good sportsmanship and be tankful the season is over.

If you don't like how your gym does things, find a new gym next season, but I think you'll find you have a much stronger gymnast next year. That handspring vault isn't easy to learn, and next year, your DD will be getting 9s, and all those kids who were doing the handstand flat back will be attempting the handspring and getting the 8s - a year behind your DD. Hopefully, your DD will also be ready for yurchencko vaults a year earlier, too.

I don't think you're politically incorrect...I actually agree with you on all points. I don't challenge the coach, or question her decisions. However, I would bet my last paycheck she hasn't noticed the flat back vaults, or thought about how that one change might affect placement. (we haven't done many meets in this organization). I know her well enough to know that if I asked, she would consider it.... was just testing the waters to see what other moms would do. My suspicion is these other girls are training the L5 vault but just competing the L4. It doesn't seem fair (listen carefully for my foot stomping here! LOL) Here we are at the end of a difficult competitive season (with TREMENDOUS progress), and a silly thing like vault choice could make the difference of finishing above last. You're right, she will likely get better vault scores next year, because she hasn't done anything but the handspring for year. As others pointed out, switching vaults at this late stage could backfire anyway. So, I have no regrets for the season, and will continue to be proud of her getting that little body over the vault table!

 

[gymmomtoo]

I would never suggest to the coach that they switch one vault for another or change a routine. I might wonder to myself, discuss it with other gym moms or mention it to my daughter, but I'd never bring it up to the coaches--they coach, they have the expertise and that's why I pay them. If I had the same ability I'd be coaching . FWIW, I like your coaches' apparent emphasis on skill progression rather than high scores.

 

[SignHere]

I don't think you're politically incorrect...I actually agree with you on all points. I don't challenge the coach, or question her decisions. However, I would bet my last paycheck she hasn't noticed the flat back vaults, or thought about how that one change might affect placement. (we haven't done many meets in this organization). I know her well enough to know that if I asked, she would consider it.... was just testing the waters to see what other moms would do. My suspicion is these other girls are training the L5 vault but just competing the L4. It doesn't seem fair (listen carefully for my foot stomping here! LOL) Here we are at the end of a difficult competitive season (with TREMENDOUS progress), and a silly thing like vault choice could make the difference of finishing above last. You're right, she will likely get better vault scores next year, because she hasn't done anything but the handspring for year. As others pointed out, switching vaults at this late stage could backfire anyway. So, I have no regrets for the season, and will continue to be proud of her getting that little body over the vault table!

I'm pretty sure the coach has noticed the handstand flat back vault, and I'm pretty sure she's noticed how its affected placement. Believe it or not, the coaches are pretty competitive, too! Also, I'd be pretty surprised if those kids were training both vaults.

 

[Muddlethru]

I know exactly how you feel. While our better judgement dictates one thing, our emotions take us somewhere else. In addition, after a season is over, trophies, medals and memories are all we have to remember it by. As a L8, my daughter did the maximum difficulty skills allowed, and even at L9, her coaches pushed her to do the more difficult skills, even f it was not consistent. So her scores were all over the board in the beginning. I was hoping the coaches would allow her to do less difficult skills. Luckily, towards the end of the season, she became quite proficient in them and started winnng meets. From your post however, switching up her vault would not really make a big difference. I'd just leave it. You never know, she may surprise you at this last meet. She may finish higher than you anticipate. Just comfort yourself in knowing that the coaches feel she is capable of doing a skill above her level. Good luck on her last meet. I truly hope she does very well.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

I know exactly how you feel. While our better judgement dictates one thing, our emotions take us somewhere else. In addition, after a season is over, trophies, medals and memories are all we have to remember it by. As a L8, my daughter did the maximum difficulty skills allowed, and even at L9, her coaches pushed her to do the more difficult skills, even f it was not consistent. So her scores were all over the board in the beginning. I was hoping the coaches would allow her to do less difficult skills. Luckily, towards the end of the season, she became quite proficient in them and started winnng meets. From your post however, switching up her vault would not really make a big difference. I'd just leave it. You never know, she may surprise you at this last meet. She may finish higher than you anticipate. Just comfort yourself in knowing that the coaches feel she is capable of doing a skill above her level. Good luck on her last meet. I truly hope she does very well.

4thelove....you nailed it. And, I am delighted to say...dd scored a 9.45 on vault (the judge was VERY generous all day)! And....she didn't finish last this time. It wouldn't have mattered, as her face when she landed her cartwheel and handstand on beam were worth more than any medal. She was quite pleased with the ROBHSBT...even though the landing wasn't as strong as her ROBHSBHS....she was so proud. She missed the long hang kip...darn it, otherwise might have finished in the middle of the pack this time. We are really looking forward to polishing up these skills for a great season next year!