Pushing? And crying...?

[Kiwi]

My DD had a rotten day at gym yesterday, and I am quite upset as she has been really enjoying it recently and doing well, and now she is quite down about it and seems to be questioning whether she wants to continue. I wasn't there, but here is what she has told me happened:

1. The coach was pushing her in bridge, and it hurt her back (this is not the first time this has happened) and she cried.

2. The coach was pushing her down in splits (the coaches always push all the girls down in splits) and it hurt and she cried.

3. They were doing leg lifts on the wall ladder, the coach was yelling at her to keep going, it hurt and she cried. The coach then yelled at her to stop crying.

Since I am new to the world of competitive gymnastics, perhaps some of you can answer my questions:

1. Is this pushing normal practice for coaches? Is it normal for young competitive gymnasts to have to tolerate the pain of this?

2. Is pushing actually beneficial to flexibility? I would have thought it was counter-productive, since if you push past the point of first tension in a stretch, the stretch reflex kicks in and the muscle contracts, making stretching more difficult.

3. Is there some rule or convention about 'no crying' in gymnastics? These are only 7 year old girls, and my DD was crying from the pain, not crying for attention.

I am hoping to have a discussion with the coach next Tuesday. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[standsonherhands]

I am sorry to hear about your troubles. 1. If it helps our gym does not push girls into splits or bridges. They have never even done oversplits with our L4 girls who are down easily. 3. I would agree that there is generally a no crying policy at our gym. For example my dd got a high five instead of sympathy for her first rip. However, I would be uncomfortable with training practices that led to crying because they inflicted pain. Sorry I don't have a solid answer for 2. Good luck.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

have a discussion with the coach 1st. i'll get back to you after i see what is said.

 

[Linsul]

Pushing is a delicate matter with young gymnasts. Sometimes little ones don't like the discomfort, and will lean out of a stretch they are fully capable of. In that case, the coach isn't actually 'pushing' them, just holding them in the stretch correctly, but it still looks like pushing. Flexibility is not a comfortable thing most of the time, coping is something that is learned. If it's a new type of discomfort to a child it can feel like world ending pain. I would speak to the coach and get the story there, because what it is may not be what it appears to be.

Is pushing normal? It's common enough to say so I think. I don't push if there are alternatives, and I don't push anyone I currently coach. Offhand I'll mention pikes. I don't push those, but I do have the girls do pike hangs on the bars with straight legs. Pushing is beneficial I believe when the coach knows what they're dealing with and isn't just shoving kids down hard on a whim. Care is a must though, age and circumstance are factors. You mention the point of first tension in a stretch. Many kids don't recognize that point, especially if they're consumed by the feeling of it all. Sometimes a push down is a push to that point and no further even if the look on their face says 'TORTURE!'

I coach a group of 5-7yr old pre-teamers. One of them cries a little bit in her middle splits, but it's ok. Tears don't make me mad, I get it, it hurts. Doesn't change that splits come with the territory I feel for her, but the best way to get her through it is for her to get those splits. I have them sing songs or count, anything that makes them breathe through a stretch. There's no 'no crying' rule, but I'd send a kid to the bathroom after stretching if things got teary enough just to reset and be ready for the rest of the class. I do tell the girls that nothing in gymnastics is worth crying over. Not in a angry or smarmy way, just to let them know that time and effort get you through anything. Walls are temporary as long as you keep going!

How long has your DD been on team? Is she adjusting well otherwise?

 

[Kiwi]

She has just been in level 1 for a year and has been doing pretty well with it. She has some flexibility problems and has cried before a few times, but it sounds like this session was particularly bad for her.

The back pain is the one I am most concerned about, as one time previously my DD said her coach had pushed her in bridge, and her back was still sore that night, and it was keeping her from going to sleep. That doesn't seem right to me, I would expect that discomfort from a stretch would go away once the stretch was finished. I am wondering if the coach is unintentionally pushing a bit too hard?

The funny thing is, I had a discussion with the coach just the other day, and she said that my DD needed to improve her shoulder flexibility so that she could get her back walkover properly. She even said she didn't want her doing the walkover using her back too much. Perhaps she thinks that pushing in bridge is helping with her shoulder flexibility? When I ask my DD where it hurts she is pointing to the middle of her back.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i still want to know what the coach says. with that said, it's generally okay if the pain is mid back. if it's down low that's no good and unsafe.

also, i'm not picturing how the coach is "pushing" if your daughter is in an upside down bridge. can you help me out with this visual??

 

[Linsul]

Personally I would not push a level 1. At all. Tricky thing about stretching is if you try to force something too soon, kids can use other muscle groups to resist the stretch and that can cause pain.

Bridges do help with shoulder flexibility, that much is certain. I would ask the coach if it's ok for her to not do any bridge work that she cannot initiate and maintain on her own. Pain that prevents sleep is totally not necessary!

 

[mumoftwogymnasts]

Oh the dreaded tears, dd is seven, and training to move to level 4, the last six months have been a bit up and down in the gym, the intensity of the training increased and yes there have been tears at times, and times when she mentioned quitting.
I don't know that the gym has a "no crying" rule as such, it is certainly discouraged. The coaches will ask in a kind way "what does crying achieve?" the answer is nothing and then the girls are encourage to calm down and move on.

Both dd and ds coaches will "push" them down in splits, it is a light push until the gymmie says stop and them they are held in that position. DD will grimace, DS will not. In bridge dd's coach will often adjust or push her shoulders back. Flexibility hurts, there is no way of getting around that and it is a tough one for kids to come to turns with.

3. They were doing leg lifts on the wall ladder, the coach was yelling at her to keep going, it hurt and she cried. The coach then yelled at her to stop crying.

I get the "coach yelled at me" comment all the time. I am in the gym with my head stuck in a book for 95% of practices, and the coach has never yelled at either of my gymnasts. At times they have spoken firmly and sternly, but what my seven year old considers yelling is very different from what I consider yelling.

 

[gymgurl]

Well at our gym they do push us but only where they know we are capable and really only in straddle when we lean forward in splits and bridge they never push us and only if we are flat do we go to oversplits

 

[gymdog]

It's hard to say. Is it possible for you to observe a practice or a part of it in addition to talking to the coach? It is possible this level or group is too hard for her or she is adjusting to new expectations (maybe the coaches are trying to teach them to next level of skills).

Pushing to improve flexibility and also telling the kids to keep going in an exercise is pretty common. I have kids who want to get up on the bar and do 2 leg lifts and then come down as soon as it's not easy, when they can do at least 10 without unreasonable exertion. They just don't understand yet what it needs to feel like in order to be beneficial, and that we aren't just doing this stuff to do what we already can do easily. I try not to push to the point of tears, and I try to make sure they understand why I'm doing it, and talk to them about it. But on the other hand I know they won't get better if they don't accept some discomfort. Ability to endure discomfort is one of the most important things if you want to progress in gymnastics. So when a kid is telling me they want this skill or to move to the next level, I know I need to give them the tools to do it. So I try to explain those things, for example you need to do this to be able to do your whatever skill, this is how it's important, so they understand.

 

[Sparky]

Just a thought - my 12 yr old dd has shoulder flexibility issues as well, and for the last few years she has been articulate enough to communicate that doing a bridge on her own does NOT stretch her shoulders - she needs to do things a bit differently to actually feel the stretch in her shoulders, either with a coaches help, or doing it a bit differently on her own. Perhaps your dd is the same?

HTH,

Lisa

PS - my dd, who is at quite a high level, needed private lessons when she was younger, to get her back walkover

 

[marie83]

Is pushing normal? Yes, I'd say so, but only within reason!
I've learned to always talk to the gymnasts about what we are doing first. I explain to them that it will hurt, but that it will help them get their splits, and that I will only hold them for 10 seconds at a time, the rest of the time they are on their own (e.g. if we are doing box splits, I'll have them sit in a line - we'll hold the splits for around 30 seconds - 1 minute and during that time, I'll go round and push each gymnast for 10 seconds - this increases as they get used to it!)

What I find helps is to tell them to try and relax as much as possible - think about something nice! Take a deep breath in, and let it out really slowly as I push down.

Is crying normal? In the early stages again, yes -nobody likes pain, and stretching does hurt, unless you are one of those annoyingly flexible people! Sometimes my gymnasts cry and I do tell them (not shout though) to try to stop. I don't want them to associate stretching with pain and tears so I try my best to distract them from the pain when they are being stretched to reduce the chances of tears, however like I said, sometimes they cry - could be that they are tired or for some other reason it just really hurts that day!
I try to discourage tears in the gym purely because I want to breed happy and tough gymnasts!

 

[Terpsikhore]

2. Is pushing actually beneficial to flexibility? I would have thought it was counter-productive, since if you push past the point of first tension in a stretch, the stretch reflex kicks in and the muscle contracts, making stretching more difficult.

Just wanted to chuck my tuppenceworth in - at my gym on occasion, we have been pushed into a stretch and instructed to push back against the coach, i.e. as if we were trying to get out of the stretch. For example, while lying on our backs on the floor pulling one straight leg to our chest (like upside-down splits), the coach will push a gymnast's leg closer to her head, while instructing her to push back as if trying to bring her leg back down to beside the other one. No actual movement takes place, because they're both pushing as hard as each other but in opposite directions. When the coach stops pushing and the gymnast stops resisting, the gymnast suddenly finds that her flexibility in the stretch has greatly increased.

There's a term for that kind of stretching, but I can't remember it!

My situation is different, though - I'm older, taller and louder than my coach, and if I feel she's pushing me too far in a stretch, believe me, she'll know about it! I can't offer any advice on whether it's normal to push younger kids into stretches.

 

[gymcoach26]

There is a big difference between correcting form that results in discomfort and truly pushing a child down in stretches. For splits- I will go around and adjust their form. Usually it is just turning under the back toe and lifting the back knee up off the ground so the leg is straight or adjusting the torso so it is centered. For bridges- this is a little trickier. I think what you might mean by "pushing" her in her bridge is that the coach is pulling her shoulders more over her hands. If this is not the case please correct me. I will often pull gently so the child can at least feel how the proper stretch should feel. If this causes any discomfort it would be in the shoulders. I find it helps a lot of beginners to start them off with their feet up higher on a panel mat until their shoulders adjust to the position. Maybe you could ask her coach if this is an option for your DD.

 

[Coacharella]

Do you typically stick around to watch? how does it seem to you?
I stretch my gymnasts, the young ones percieve it as "pushing" at first, but it's good for the coach to explain the difference between pushing and stretching and again as someone mentioned, explain the reason you are stretching.

Was the back stretch possibly ...your daughter doing a bridge while holding the coaches ankles and then the coach pulling her upper back towards her?

My really unflexible gymnast gets back pain even when she does not get stretched , but it is usually gone by the next day.

 

[emandelsmom]

I have only read the first few posts. Ellie has shoulder flexibility issues. She has never been pushed in a bridge. The coach pulled my husband and I aside to show/teach us how to get her to stretch her back out. We do these nightly. She got her standing back bend this week. Next up is kick over. We were shown how to stretch the girls legs too. We do these with them. Ellie almost has her splits completely down now. It is not done painfully or meanly. She cried at gym a few times, but she is super tight. She loves the progress she is making and asked to be stretched now. But we were shown by her well trained coaches how to do it. One has worked as a physical thereapist before.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Just wanted to chuck my tuppenceworth in - at my gym on occasion, we have been pushed into a stretch and instructed to push back against the coach, i.e. as if we were trying to get out of the stretch. For example, while lying on our backs on the floor pulling one straight leg to our chest (like upside-down splits), the coach will push a gymnast's leg closer to her head, while instructing her to push back as if trying to bring her leg back down to beside the other one. No actual movement takes place, because they're both pushing as hard as each other but in opposite directions. When the coach stops pushing and the gymnast stops resisting, the gymnast suddenly finds that her flexibility in the stretch has greatly increased.

There's a term for that kind of stretching, but I can't remember it!

My situation is different, though - I'm older, taller and louder than my coach, and if I feel she's pushing me too far in a stretch, believe me, she'll know about it! I can't offer any advice on whether it's normal to push younger kids into stretches.

this is called PNF. proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation.

 

[Bella's Mom]

Thank you SO much for asking this question. My daughter hates when her coach pushes her down in her middle splits and I have to say, that it hurts me to watch. I've always wondered about the safety of it but assumed that it must be okay.

It looks like to me that my daughter purposely isn't going down all the way because she is afraid her coach will push her even more. She's mentioned at home that she doesn't like it when the coach does it. And at home, she does her splits a lot further down than she does at the gym.

But I agree with what someone said. It's a necessary skill and the sooner she has it the sooner it's behind her.

 

[3stars]

My daughter's coach (she is on the pre-team/training level 4) does push down on the girls in their splits. Not hard, but enough to get them to go a little further. He did discuss with the girls why he does it and they have set goals for "getting their splits." That being said, my daughter doesn't cry and has never complained about it, but other girls in her group have. I think it really depends on the kid.

I can't visualize what you mean by pushing on her in a bridge. I've never seen that done before and we don't do that in our preschool program (the level I work with). I know once my daughter said a coach moved her position in a bridge and her back popped and it was stiff for a day or 2, but it hasn't bothered her past that.

 

[CoachGoofy]

The kids I work with (team/preteam T&T mostly) ASK me to push on their pikes & their pancakes, & we partner stretch their shoulders pretty regularly, for what that's worth. They say that once they got used to the stretch it feels really good. I'd never push in splits, just help them with form.

While I stretch any of my classes we have conversations to distract them. "What skill do we use this shape for?" is one of my favorites.