WAG Level 6 Bars question

[Max]

Is a cast to handstand required in level 6? Sorry for the newbie optionals question it will be our first level 6 season. I am sure this is the first of many questions.

Thanks so much

 

[Mrs. Puma]

This is a confusing one, you're not crazy! Basically, yes. All casts in optionals will be deducted if they are not to HS, but as long as it is horizontal, it will get the VP. (Correct me if I'm wrong, everyone!) In our area at least, most L6s do not cast to HS though and take the hit.

ETA: I actually think it has to be at least 45 above horizontal to get VP....it's confusing!

 

[GymRatMama]

My DD just finished L6. From what I learned, they have to cast to at least horizontal to keep the start value at 10.0 However, they must cast to at least 45 degrees to avoid a .3 deduction. We were told casting to handstand is not required until L7. I don't know if this is 100% accurate, but this is what I was led to believe.

 

[flipster]

I can confirm what Mrs Puma said.

 

[thefellowsmom]

That is correct! The cast to handstand is not a required start value element for level six, but all casts in optionals are deducted if not to handstand. This deduction is the same regardless of level. Level 6 takes the same hit as level 8 or level 10.

The start value requirement for 6 is above horizontal. For 7 it is above 45.

Here is a doc that outlines the deduction

https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/J.O. Code of Points/appndx10_BarTechnique2013.pdf

From what I remember seeing, most level sixes were taking at least a .2 deduction for cast height as we saw very few go to handstand. And you take this deduction for each cast, so in the normal level six routine, that would likely be two casts, one low bar one high bar.

 

[MILgymFAM]

View attachment 6194 This is a confusing one, you're not crazy! Basically, yes. All casts in optionals will be deducted if they are not to HS, but as long as it is horizontal, it will get the VP. (Correct me if I'm wrong, everyone!) In our area at least, most L6s do not cast to HS though and take the hit.

ETA: I actually think it has to be at least 45 above horizontal to get VP....it's confusing!

Except it's supposed to be credited VP if it's over horizontal. It's gotta be SO over, in our experience, that no judge could question it though. DD never got credit once all season but it was clear to everyone that watched videos/saw pics that she got to just above horizontal. At least 45 above horizontal is best, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Can not vouch for accuracy but this is what I have. I am the most ignorant on acutal skills but this is what my digging came up with.​

Level 6 Gymnastics Requirements: Vault
· front handspring
Level 6 Gymnastics Requirements: Bars
· cast to minimum of horizontal
· 1 bar change
· one element that is one of the following: underswing, clear hip circle, stalder circle or hecht
· min “A” dismount
Level 6 Gymnastics Requirements: Beam
· 1 acro element that starts and finishes on the beam
· 1 leap or jump requiring 180 degree split
· 360 degree turn on one foot
· min of “A” dismount”
Level 6 Gymnastics Requirements: Floor
· 1 Acro Series with a minimum of 3 directly connected flight elements with or without hand support
· 1 Salto or Aerial acro element
· Dance passage with minimum of 2 different leaps, jumps, hops- 1 must be a 180 degree split
· 360 degree turn on one foot

Level 7 Gymnastics Requirements: Vault
· front handspring
Level 7 Gymnastics Requirements: Bars
· 1 cast- minimum of 45 degrees from vertical*
· 2 360 degree clear circling elements–they can be the same or different (an example of this would be a clear hip or a giant)
· one of the clear circling elements must be a “B” valued element*
· salto or hecht dismount, minimum “A” value.
Level 7 Gymnastics Requirements: Beam
· an acro series with a minimum of two elements (ex. backwalkover, backhandspring)
· one acro flight element (this can be included in the series) (this could be the backhandspring in the previous example)*
· one leap/jump requiring 180 degree split
· 360 degree turn on one foot
· aerial or salto dismount that is at least an “A” element
Level 7 Gymnastics Requirements: Floor
· one acro series ( 3 or more flight elements) which includes a back layout (back salto stretched to two feet–this basically means a back flip in the straight position)-this could be round-off back-handspring back-layout*
· a direct connection of two or more forward acro elements with flight (one element must be a salto or an aerial)–this could be front handspring-front tuck*
· dance passage with minimum of two different elements one a leap with 180 degree split
· 360 degree turn on one foot

* are the harder hold back skills.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

This is what I think is confusing..that Special Requirement is just horizontal, but it looks like it needs to be 45 degrees or less from vertical to make it an A skills? Sorry...I'm trying to understand this! Lol! But like @MILgymFAM said, the judges don't get instant replay or still pictures to analyze, so it's best to be well above horizontal either way....

 

[wandrewsjr]

That A cast is a cast with half turn from 21 to 45 degrees from vertical. There is no longer an A value regular cast. Within 20 degrees of vertical is a B.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

That A cast is a cast with half turn from 21 to 45 degrees from vertical. There is no longer an A value regular cast. Within 20 degrees of vertical is a B.

Thank you! So what happens if it's above hortizontal but more than 20 degrees from vertical? Obviously a higher deduction, but what exactly does it mean to not get VP credit?

 

[munchkin3]

Yes, this is a conundrum for level 6.
Cast to handstand is not required, but it gets deducted for not being to handstand. So really you need to have it in order to score in the mid 9s.
My DD competed without it and was lucky to end with a 9.10..... Her team mates has one cast handstand and the other one was about 30 away fro HS....those routines were closer to 9.4s and 9.5s.
Kids with both HS were getting over 9.5s

So really you need it. If you don't get to horizontal you are creamed.

 

[Natasha]

Thank you! So what happens if it's above hortizontal but more than 20 degrees from vertical? Obviously a higher deduction, but what exactly does it mean to not get VP credit?

The VP credit is .3 for B skills and .1 for A skills. You are required to have 1 B skill, so if you have another B in the routine, you do not need the Cast HS to get the value part (but will still get the amplitude deduction discussed above.) If you do not have a B, the start value will be lowered by .3, and then if you don't hit at least horizontal, the special requirement is not met which lowers the start value by .5, so you could end up with a 9.2 start value.

 

[duyetanh]

Level 6 seemed like it had the most amazing shades of grey that I never knew existed...but perhaps that was because we were slogging through it...

 

[raenndrops]

Thank you! So what happens if it's above hortizontal but more than 20 degrees from vertical? Obviously a higher deduction, but what exactly does it mean to not get VP credit?

If they don't get value part credit, it means they start out of a 9.5 instead of a 10.0
... Assuming they still have their 5 A and 1 B skill.

 

[munchkin3]

Oh, and don't forget people, that free hip......MUST be minimum to horizontal.....if not, you get no credit again and the kid gets creamed again.

I think of level 6 like level 5 but with NO excuses.....

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Oh, and don't forget people, that free hip......MUST be minimum to horizontal.....if not, you get no credit again and the kid gets creamed again.

I think of level 6 like level 5 but with NO excuses.....

This is interesting! Puma Jr is still L4, so I may not be well enough informed, but I have heard the opinion that in some ways L6 is easier than L5? I've just been wondering (not that it's my call) if my kid would do better in L6 since it's pretty much the same skill set but you could hide her weaknesses and show off her strengths. I kind of think she'd do better with an optional routine than battling the little intricacies of a compulsory routine that a judge has seen a million times and knows what it is supposed to look like. I should probably start a new thread here....sorry!!

 

[munchkin3]

I would agree, except in bars......L6 bars is pretty unforgiving.......if puma has all the level 5 skills, the big jump is to get the cast HS and the free hip REALLY HIGH........preferable free hip HS. If the L5 routine is performed in 6, most likely you will see 8s depending on the area.

In the other events I would agree, you can tailor make it......

Our team just sent some girls to L6 regionals and they were doing CHS, decent free hips....on floor FHS-FLO and the BHS-BT.....beam only with BWO-BWO or the BWO BT dismount.....

They did well. The key here is once you hit optionals if you want your DD to score HIGH, they need to be close to a L7..... If you just want your DD to compete 6 to get there and fix it later, then it's good too but expect 34s.......it's a non forgiving level but that doesn't mean it's not good. I think it's a great introductory optional level and the girls really see what they are up against at competitions.

Mine peaked a bit late as she just got her BHS on beam, CHS and FH to HS and the floor FHS-FT.......oh well.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Our girls are pretty much L6 at this point. Most of us parents were stressing the big skills. Like BHS on beam, flyaway, Layouts, aerial dismounts.

Back in Feb bars coach and I had a conversation. He said don't worry about that stuff, they'll get them (and they have) The leaps however need to be bigger. And yep for most of the girls they do. And then the conversation turned to bars. He said everyone worries about the flyaway. He said the flyaway is the easiest part, it's just scary. Once the get past being scared they just do it. He told me all the girls had it and his spots at that point were mental spots, they were essentially doing them. Then he said all the stuff before the dismount was the hard stuff (the routine). He said that is where the concern is and where the work is needed. The height and shape of their casts and free hips...... He said it all needs work.

And working it they are, including cast to HS. This is rip season around here.

So they will be competing L6 come fall, how they score remains to be seen. im really glad they are doing their level 6 stuff in their IGC season, so they have a baseline. With 6 months and summer training, before their first meet, they should be in good shape.

 

[gymmutti]

Munchkin3 gave a great description of L6. I keep hearing it is easier than L5 but I disagree if you want to be competitive (at least around here). Our girls did FLO or FHS-FP, BHSBLO on floor and every girl had a flight on beam along with a series. The description of bars is spot on, we saw Giants, KCH to clear hip HS on the high bar this season. You can medal without those things at regular meets (though maybe not top 3) but states and regionals are tough.

 

[Max]

This is great information. As this is a new level for us I was seeing both it was so hard to tell. We compete in the spring and DD doesn't seem worried so I will follow her lead and wait for her handstand to come .....can't be any worse then waiting for that kip