WAG Another USAG screw up

[Deleted member D3987]

USAG does not require all coaches to be members, therefore to coach, you do not necessarily need a background check. Lots of clubs have recreational coaches or coaches who are not not he floor at meets who are not USAG members and not background checked. Plus, as raenndrops mentioned, there are other gymnastics organizations in the US that have their own rules (or lack of rules) regarding coaching certification. There is limited, if any, communication between the two groups, so even if USAG gets a bad report about a coach and actually does pass it along to gyms in that geographic area, I doubt they would communicate it to a non-USAG program. There are SO many loopholes in the sport of gymnastics in the US.

there are loopholes in all of this in all of society. this is how the POS's work the system. it's NOT just in the sport of gymnastics. it's everywhere!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

In Australia right now there is currently a Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse. It is a big deal. The federal government has given wide ranging powers to a commissioner to compel people to attend the commission and it has been running for years now, collecting information from victims, parents, community organisations, schools and other institutions.

It is still running so it has not released findings or recommendations yet but what had become clear from the reports so far is that making the victims completely responsible for reporting and pursuing offenders is a strategy that lets kids down and creates more victims.

I work in a school and by law I have to have a Working with Children Check. I would have to have it just to volunteer to help with reading too. It evaluates ANYTHING in my history that could affect my ability to work with children; convictions, charges that did not lead to conviction, apprehended violence orders (restraining orders), allegations, reasons for prior dismissals if they are on record, and any relevant information collected by registration bodies about disciplinary proceedings or employer concerns.

A new employer does not get given the details. They just find out whether or not I am deemed to be a fit person to work with children. It isn't just about what people have actually been caught doing. It is also about patterns of behaviour that suggest risk. A single unsubstantiated accusation or dropped charge would not put someone out of work under this system, but a list of restraining orders and dismissals like the one in that first link would mean someone should never work with kids again.

It may be that organisations like USAG need some sort of external support mechanism that lets them do something useful with the third party information they have. After all, even if they did ban a coach, a committed paedophile would just find themselves an alternate hunting ground. Volunteering, scouts, youth group leader, etc. There is no shortage of opportunity if there is no nation-wide system that actually keeps an eye on people's past behaviour.

and they will have it 1/17. implemented by the USOC.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I'm not surprised by it one bit. There have also been numerous complaints made to USAG about abusive coaching tactics of certain coaches that fall into the mental and tipping on the physical realm (throwing mats and pit blocks at a kids head files under the abuse category to me) and USAG ignores it. It's almost like they believe that they are above the law or repercussions of abuse of any kind. No abuse, whether sexual, physical or mental should be a tolerated practice technique in any sport, ever. It really bothers me that in any other area an abuser would be immediately removed from practicing, can you imagine a teacher behaving this way and not be in trouble? I think that it's time that the public demand better practices out of USAG in order to protect our children from these wide spread and clearly acceptable abusive techniques. We must remember that gymnastics is a leisure activity for kids and should be fun and enjoyable. I hope that something major is forced on them to make them wake the heck up.

stop it! they don't ignore it. USAG does NOT dictate to private businesses how they must run their gyms...those of you that think like the above do NOT understand what USAG is and what it can't or can do.

suffice...write a complaint that a coach threw a "mat" at a child's head, have it signed by the owner another witness or another coach...not some anonymous piece of tripe...and watch how fast USAG moves.

or better yet...if you've witnessed a mat being thrown at a child's head?!!...why in the hell haven't you contacted law enforcement? it's called assault. are you serious?? you have witnessed this and done NOTHING?

oh, i see. you want USAG to bring some punitive action against the coach. so then he leaves USAG and goes over to USAIGC, AAU, Turners, Sokols, Park District, etc; USAG IS NOT A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY! YOU HAVE TO GO TO LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT IF YOU WANT THIS POS PERMANENTLY AWAY FROM KIDS. GET IT?

they have already woken the heck up 30 years ago. and for those who are not aware. USAG/USGF was born in 1964. the first club opened in 1968. go back and read my previous posts on our history. we really didn't have an industry until after 1984 and Mary Lou. so if you are to compare what USAG has done...compare to other organizations that have been around twice as long...NCAA...AAU, etc; they have all followed our lead and not the other way around and even though many organizations have been around forever. this includes ALL the NGB's.

and every walk of life has had a scandal...or has one coming their way. you don't think it's unfortunate that our "scandals" only get attention WHEN we have the Olympics? like just right before or immediately after??

don't you think all the media outlets are guilty of withholding information that they time to our Olympic Games? they want to dirty everyone up...but only when we have visibility?? come folks...some of you need to wake the heck up.

 

[txgymfan]

Dunno, thank you for providing valuable insight and in depth knowledge of this horrible situation. I ache for how hard this must be for you personally.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I still don't understand why the parents didn't go to the police as soon as they found out. [emoji853]

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I still don't understand why the parents didn't go to the police as soon as they found out. [emoji853]

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING..........

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Dunno, thank you for providing valuable insight and in depth knowledge of this horrible situation. I ache for how hard this must be for you personally.

thank you for recognizing how hard this all is.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

the first line of defense in all of this is the parents. it will ALWAYS be the parents. USAG is the 4th line of defense after local law enforcement and their respective social service agencies that tackle sexual abuse and then the FEDS.

and if a child doesn't come forward and tell their parent...don't be looking to blame accountability on other people or organizations. it's not logical and not fair. and especially when no one has the ability to read another's mind. and don't blame others when they hear "rumors' or "urban legend" when no one has any proof that there is any truth to what they've heard or been told. and in the case of the POS in Atlanta...why don't you blame ALL the places he ever worked? or how about this...why don't we thank the FEDS for discovering what they did that no one would have ever discovered? why? cause this POS was never arrested, charged or convicted before Atlanta. nothing anyone could have done...short of breaking the law themselves and placing a bullet in this guy's temple.

i don't know and have never heard of anyone that has ever been arrested, charged and convicted for simply being a POS. last time i looked, even the POS has rights.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I wouldn't say he was allowed to slip through the cracks. USAG knew and did nothing. I can't even wrap my head around the fact they they wanted a parent/gymnast complaint - not not act based on multiple gym owners' complaints? They allowed him to stay despite everything. They need to be sued big time over issues such as these, it's the only way anything is going to change.

OMG if you don't get it after you read my posts then you will never get it. and what? all gym owners tell the truth? and you want USAG to be sued? not all the other gyms where he worked and just kept passing around the trash? when they all knew he was a POS?

please folks...unless you know what you're talking about please don't opine on who or what should be punished for all this. and we haven't even touched on the Dr thing yet.

and if you tell a lie or BS long enough there is a risk that people will believe its gospel.

call me crazy...but you all need some edumacation on how things work. you think the newspaper is the all that and the bag of chips of accuracy and what they think they know? YIKES!

everyone aware that this is in court in Atlanta? so when it all comes out in the wash...who you going to believe? the paper? the court? or will you say that one or the other is conspiring to cover up the truth...which is precisely what USAG has unfairly been accused of or alleged therein.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Neither. They are protecting themselves. They wanted to avoid scandal, not because they cared about these disgusting excuses for coaches, but because they wanted protect reputation of USAG. Who cares if children get hurt in process?

could not be further from the truth. i can't tell if that emoji is tongue and cheek or if it means you're serious.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Oh, I think when all is said and done, the price tag will be higher than that. I honestly cannot believe USAG seems to be careening toward letting this one go to trial. It's hard to imagine a clearer negligence case.

unless, of course, you know the facts.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

OMG! DD went to one of those gyms for rec/preteam/level 1 team! Of course, this was after he had been fired but it's still disturbing. I will tell you right now, if I were the parent of one of the girls abused after USAG had so many complaints against him and they STILL allowed him to open a gym/become a USAG member, I would be absolutely livid and I would not let it go until they were held responsible. Yes, I do agree that someone else should have alerted the authorities as well, but good lord!

the truth shall set you free...eventually.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

All speculating on USAG aside. How is it that the parents and victims do not press charges?

Who lets their kid be abused and only tells the gym not the police? A criminal conviction gets the person on the offender list. Telling the gym and getting them fired does not.

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

BINGO!!!!

Both wrong.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Lot of truth there. Lets write the by laws so we don't get in trouble and can easily mitigate our liability, instead of protecting the children.

no, there is no truth to that at all. USAG is not a law enforcement agency.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

And also how do the gym owners NOT call the police or department of children and families- this alone could have very well have stopped this in its tracks- USAG is just really a licensing body- just like a Board of Examiners that gives licenses to day care workers, etc- they alone are not enough- people must REPORT, gym owners, parents, kids, friends,teachers- relying on a privately run entity to enforce laws & good behavior has NEVER worked in all of history. This is so so sad.

clarification. clubs are not compelled as day cares are. ANYONE can open ANY kind of sport club. gymnastics, karate, dancing, competitive dance, want me to keep going?

anyone can open a gym and never belong to any of the organizations that have anything to do with gymnastics. this INCLUDES USAG! gee...did the paper point that out. of course not. USAG is the gym police! YIKES!!

 

[raenndrops]

@dunno thank you so much for explaining this. I get it. I just didn't have the words or intimate knowledge of the upper echelon of USAG to explain it thoroughly. My thoughts are with everyone affected by all of this, including you, the victims, the families, the GOOD guys in the situation, etc.

 

[Seeker]

unless, of course, you know the facts.

Pretty sure that's a big part of the issue though -- silence. They've still been primarily silent on this current set of issues, save for a generic statement. Steve Penny may be the greatest leader in all of the land, but we'd have no way of knowing that as he's said nothing.

Personally, I'd love to know the facts.

 

[coachmolly]

there are loopholes in all of this in all of society. this is how the POS's work the system. it's NOT just in the sport of gymnastics. it's everywhere!

I completely agree. My brother is a coach in another sport that is also affected by creeps, I work in a school and we've all heard the stories of bad people somehow getting teaching/coaching positions, it happens everywhere. I just limited my post to gymnastics, because that's what we're discussing here.
And the loopholes are not completely the fault of USAG- they can't be expected to be the gymnastics police for the hundreds of unaffiliated clubs and programs- they're the fault of individual gym owners who don't make it a priority to properly research their employees or promptly report any bad (or even remotely questionable behavior). And I don't know how to make that better. I wish there was a way for some governing body to stop dishonest gym owners and coaches in their tracks, but there just isn't, only ways to make it at least slightly better. And to equip parents and individual coaches to be diligent about selecting a gymnastics program and knowing the correct line of reporting should an incident arise.

 

[bookworm]

this is not accurate. i understand you're basing this on what you read. please read my post.

I have read your post, all of them, and from what I surmise, you are saying that no one in USAG (coaches, admin etc) is a mandated reporter like say a medical person or a teacher ...although ethically it's another story. So the only way Mc Cabe or any of the other POS out there get nailed is by the actual gymnast or parent who witnessed any inappropriate behavior reports it to law enforcement, and not their gym or USAG. I guess as a parent I always thought that hideous events like these started with reporting to your home gym and that they would take it further as they employ the creep but thank you for correcting me, and educating the parents on here, that any episode like Mc Cabe or Nassar have been accused of must be initiated with law enforcement from the get go.

And from reading the Kathy Kelly letter, I still think she skirts the issue by saying only the CEO can be the one to deal with these issues per the USAG bylaws...i see where you say that "it's inaccurate" but I'm reading what she says and that's what she says...so is Kathy Kelly misinformed and I as well by believing what she wrote? This part is confusing me...