Conditioning as a punishment?

[Deleted member D3987]

I must say that I never had a problem with conditioning as a punishment for unruliness...until tonight. My dd's level 4 coach made her do 5 ropes(no legs) tonight for "talking in line". The girl she was talking with did not do any, just my dd. By the 4th rope she was crying because her arms hurt so bad...this was at the end of a 3 hr. practice and they had already done ropes earlier. the hc talked to her to calm her down and have her finish, but she was so tired on the last rope that she used her legs and actually slid down the rope some...she now has bad rope burn between her legs. I saw all this because it was the end of practice. My dd is very quiet normally. She rarely causes problems, in fact, one of the other team moms couldn't believe that my dd got in trouble in the first place, so I feel this was pretty harsh.

I get that you need to have discipline and order in class, but, hey! she's 7, not 15!! and shouldn't the girls be allowed to talk to their team mates? does everything have to be done silently? She isn't going to want to go to gym if it isn't at least a little bit social and fun...she's not training elite-just level 4!!

Maybe I'm over reacting, but when I have to help her take a bath because her legs are so raw she can't stand the water...there's a problem.

what happened here is wrong if it happened the way you have stated. if she was a level 10 15 year old? chatty annies?? well, then not.

 

[gymjoy]

Conditioning as punishment for anything besides slacking on conditioning is wrong IMHO!! Never had dd in a gym that does this - and wouldn't stay long if they did...

Azgymmiemom - I would be going in to have a talk with that coach in the presence of the HC and/or owner. I would also give dd a couple of days for her burns to feel better. Hope she does feel better soon.

 

[bogwoppit]

I must say that I never had a problem with conditioning as a punishment for unruliness...until tonight. My dd's level 4 coach made her do 5 ropes(no legs) tonight for "talking in line". The girl she was talking with did not do any, just my dd. By the 4th rope she was crying because her arms hurt so bad...this was at the end of a 3 hr. practice and they had already done ropes earlier. the hc talked to her to calm her down and have her finish, but she was so tired on the last rope that she used her legs and actually slid down the rope some...she now has bad rope burn between her legs. I saw all this because it was the end of practice. My dd is very quiet normally. She rarely causes problems, in fact, one of the other team moms couldn't believe that my dd got in trouble in the first place, so I feel this was pretty harsh.

I get that you need to have discipline and order in class, but, hey! she's 7, not 15!! and shouldn't the girls be allowed to talk to their team mates? does everything have to be done silently? She isn't going to want to go to gym if it isn't at least a little bit social and fun...she's not training elite-just level 4!!

Maybe I'm over reacting, but when I have to help her take a bath because her legs are so raw she can't stand the water...there's a problem.

Now THAT ^^^^^ is WRONG! I would be furious and that coach would be getting more than a pice of my mind, not a nice piece either. I don't mind if there are rules, and consequenses for breaking them, but to do that to a little girl is disgusting. He's a bully!

 

[gymdog]

Now THAT ^^^^^ is WRONG! I would be furious and that coach would be getting more than a pice of my mind, not a nice piece either. I don't mind if there are rules, and consequenses for breaking them, but to do that to a little girl is disgusting. He's a bully!

I agree. If the chatting is disruptive at that age they should sit down for a five minute break to watch from the side. That is really all that's needed at that age. First of all the one thing that jumps out to me in this scenario is the amount of time wasted over this "consequence" - way out of proportion to the original issue. Even if rope climb was going to be the consequence, it should be like one rope climb, not spend the rest of the night on rope climbs. That's silly. Send the child home if you must and you're going to have them waste time like that. If the HC had to go calm her down to have her finish, they should have intervened and sent her out to you or had her sit down.

 

[mariposa]

I agree. If the chatting is disruptive at that age they should sit down for a five minute break to watch from the side. That is really all that's needed at that age. First of all the one thing that jumps out to me in this scenario is the amount of time wasted over this "consequence" - way out of proportion to the original issue. Even if rope climb was going to be the consequence, it should be like one rope climb, not spend the rest of the night on rope climbs. That's silly. Send the child home if you must and you're going to have them waste time like that. If the HC had to go calm her down to have her finish, they should have intervened and sent her out to you or had her sit down.

Well said, gymdog! For my daughter, being sat down is worse than any punishment. That or being sent to the end of the line. She really doesn't like to get in trouble and is usually a good kid, so that is enough. I don't get upset if my daughter is talking in line as long as it isn't disruptive and it isn't when the coach is talking. Waiting in line in silence is practically impossible at that age. And the punishment certainly didn't fit the crime.

 

[Azgymmiemom]

i was up a LONG time last nite thinking about this. my dd woke up this morning so sore i had to send her in soffe shorts to school because her legs are so chaffed. i have already set up a talk with her coach (who is female and a mom by the way, Bog) and the hc. i dont want my dd in this situation again. = am going to ask what she did to deserve punishment, bc i only know what my dd said. i still dont think anything she could have done will warrant this type of punishment however. sheesh! I,m the parent...if she's causing that much trouble...send her out to me. Believe me, like most of your dd's, mine would be mortified just to be called out to sit down and miss some practice. she thinks her coach hates her now and she doesnt want to go back on wed.

 

[bogwoppit]

i was up a LONG time last nite thinking about this. my dd woke up this morning so sore i had to send her in soffe shorts to school because her legs are so chaffed. i have already set up a talk with her coach (who is female and a mom by the way, Bog) and the hc. i dont want my dd in this situation again. = am going to ask what she did to deserve punishment, bc i only know what my dd said. i still dont think anything she could have done will warrant this type of punishment however. sheesh! I,m the parent...if she's causing that much trouble...send her out to me. Believe me, like most of your dd's, mine would be mortified just to be called out to sit down and miss some practice. she thinks her coach hates her now and she doesnt want to go back on wed.

Just to be clear I do not think your DD could do anything to "deserve" that level of punishment. That is a throwback to corporal punishment. Unless that coach is horrified by what she did to your child then you have a real problem on your hands. I would take some photos of your DD's legs, with a leo on of course, and take them in with you. I also think that more people than the coach need to be involved, the HC certainly needs to know when a punishment leaves damage on a childs body.

I would be STEAMING if it was my kid.

I really feel so bdaly for your little one.

 

[mariposa]

i was up a LONG time last nite thinking about this. my dd woke up this morning so sore i had to send her in soffe shorts to school because her legs are so chaffed. i have already set up a talk with her coach (who is female and a mom by the way, Bog) and the hc. i dont want my dd in this situation again. = am going to ask what she did to deserve punishment, bc i only know what my dd said. i still dont think anything she could have done will warrant this type of punishment however. sheesh! I,m the parent...if she's causing that much trouble...send her out to me. Believe me, like most of your dd's, mine would be mortified just to be called out to sit down and miss some practice. she thinks her coach hates her now and she doesnt want to go back on wed.

I think you are doing the right thing. I agree, there is NOTHING she could have done to deserve that punishment. If they aren't completely apologetic and admitting that they were in the wrong, I am thinking I would be strongly considering other options. If there are no other options, then I would tell them that your daughter is NOT to be punished that way EVER. That if they have a problem with her, to feel free to call you to come get her and bring her home, but they are not to punish her like that. I would also tell your daughter that if she ever feels like they are being unfair, that she needs to go to the office and tell them that she would like her mom called to come and get her.

How sad that she feels like her coach hates her. I can totally imagine that. Mine was worried about her coach not liking her when all she had done was send her to the end of the line. I am sure had she gotten a punishment like your DD, she would have surely thought she hated her. Poor girl.

I think the HC has apologizing to do as well, for condoning the punishment by calming her down and still making her finish.

Good luck to you at the meeting. Sending you lots of calm and strong energy.

Hugs.

 

[gymdog]

i was up a LONG time last nite thinking about this. my dd woke up this morning so sore i had to send her in soffe shorts to school because her legs are so chaffed. i have already set up a talk with her coach (who is female and a mom by the way, Bog) and the hc. i dont want my dd in this situation again. = am going to ask what she did to deserve punishment, bc i only know what my dd said. i still dont think anything she could have done will warrant this type of punishment however. sheesh! I,m the parent...if she's causing that much trouble...send her out to me. Believe me, like most of your dd's, mine would be mortified just to be called out to sit down and miss some practice. she thinks her coach hates her now and she doesnt want to go back on wed.

I think the bolded is the bottom line. It needs to not happen again. I would be very clear that this does not happen again, if there is an issue you are to be called immediately and you will pick your child up or something, but you are not paying for this type of treatment. If they are not open to admitting they were wrong when this clearly affected your daughter negatively (whether or not they expected it would, an apology has nothing to do with intent, only the harm caused) then I would have to seriously evaluate things, and maybe start watching practice for a couple weeks as much as possible.

 

[Azgymmiemom]

issue resolved

The meeting went over very well. The owner had already heard and addressed the issue with HC and level 4 coach. I was promised that it would never happen again. I guess level 4 coach is having some personal problems with her own children, and when the girls got a little rowdy, she snapped and happened to take it out on my dd. While this doesn't excuse it, I can see why she was so frazzled and prone to making bad decisions.

The level 4 coach is going to speak to my dd before workout tomorrow to apologize and try to mend fences, and the owner is staying throughout the practice to help her coach-that made my dd feel better.

I was also told that this coach (she's only been here about 4 months) came from a highly strict and competitive gym, so that may be another reason she gave my dd the 5 ropes. Hey, as long as it never happens again, I will be fine with it.



And thanks, guys, for all of your support. It made a world of difference to me to have it!!

 

[bogwoppit]

THat is the best you could have hoped for. I am so glad that this issue had been hashed out before you got there and that clearly this is not the way you operate. NOw I just hope the coaches can restore your DD's faith in the gym and make her feel safe.

How are her legs?

As for the support, that's what we are all about.

 

[mariposa]

Glad that it went well and was already dealt with when you got there. I think that is a good sign. Hope that the coach can make things better with your DD. And hope her legs heal quickly.

 

[gymjoy]

It is good to hear that the owner and HC took the issue in hand before you came in to talk with them. I hope, for your dd's sake, that the coach makes a sincere apology and really works at improving her coaching demeanor.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

From the very beginning now I encourage the gymnasts to do what they can properly. I have discovered that asking for too much too soon is a big cause of 'cheating' or sloppy form, so I am a big fan of small repetitions of exercises but really doing them properly. Once I am happy that a gymnast can keep good form for longer, I increase the number of reps.

THIS, a million times over! The goal of conditioning should not be to get a huge number of reps, but to get as much as possible out of each individual rep.

Regarding punishment/discipline, I think it's important to distinguish between gymnastics errors and behavioral issues.

I am universally opposed to ever punishing a kid for errors in their skills (including balking). Now, this is not to say that a coach shouldn't respond to a kid who is repeatedly making an error, and this response will not always be something the kid likes, but it shouldn't be framed as punishment. Having to do candlestick jumps after putting the hands back on a fall is an excellent example which I would consider completely acceptable, as long as it is presented as a drill to practice falling without putting the hands back, not as punishment for putting them back.

Behavioral issues are a different matter entirely. If a kid is not listening in the gym, he/she can quite literally become a danger to themselves and others, and furthermore, it undermines the coaches' ability to do their jobs. This needs to be stopped immediately, and sometimes this means punishment of some sort. This is how kids learn what is acceptable and what isn't, it's part of the process learning the workings of any group or place. But let's be clear on what I mean by "punishment;" the best coaches rarely if ever have to resort to anything more severe than a stern look or a slightly-raised voice. Tone and body language are all that is necessary to keep most kids under control. Sometimes punishment does have to get more severe, but I think these instances represent a failure on the part of the coach as much as on the part of the kid.

Anyway, all that said, I do not believe conditioning should EVER be used as punishment, simply because I do not believe conditioning should ever be framed to kids as a negative thing. Conditioning is important, it is part of the sport, and it can and should be a lot of fun. And when I say fun, I'm not talking about conditioning games, I'm talking about genuine, hard-core conditioning. It's fun to test your strength. It's fun to do something and KNOW that it's making you stronger. It's satisfying to wake up sore the next morning. This is the mindset that we want the kids to take when it comes to conditioning.

 

[Gymnasticsgirl521]

We condition as a team based upon the team performace at meets. They have to do x pushups for falls on the beam and x vups for falls on bars. It tends to make them more serious about their focus and routines at meets.

DD has also had conditioning put in front of her if she didn't fix something that the coach knew was a habit not something she could not do. That being said she focused and fixed the skill. Now if the coach see's dd doing it wrong again she is told to get off the equipment and do 20 of what ever and focus on what she is doing.

I agree with this for my dd because it works for her. Cause and reaction.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

We condition as a team based upon the team performace at meets. They have to do x pushups for falls on the beam and x vups for falls on bars. It tends to make them more serious about their focus and routines at meets.

DD has also had conditioning put in front of her if she didn't fix something that the coach knew was a habit not something she could not do. That being said she focused and fixed the skill. Now if the coach see's dd doing it wrong again she is told to get off the equipment and do 20 of what ever and focus on what she is doing.

I agree with this for my dd because it works for her. Cause and reaction.

To each his (or her) own, but I suspect I and your DD's coach would not get along well, as this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that I try my best to avoid.

First, I think this puts unnecessary pressure on the girls at meets; they're in front of an audience, they're in front of judges, they know perfectly well that they need to take it seriously without anything additional being necessary.

Second, it still frames conditioning as a negative, as something to be avoided. Doing conditioning should not be seen as punishment, and avoiding it should not be seen as a reward.

 

[Linsul]

To each his (or her) own, but I suspect I and your DD's coach would not get along well, as this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that I try my best to avoid.

I recently had a conversation with a coach I've been friends with for years, and they brought up the 'awesomeness' of consequence workouts before a meet. I can't get behind it and I have nothing positive to add to it, so when pressured for my .02 I did too good of a job dissenting I guess. A good friendship iced over instantly because I'm much more awful at censoring my thoughts live than I am on the internet.

 

[besse123]

Thank you for this reply. Well phrased. Conditioning is important for all our children in all sports. Drills are learned faster and with more ease if the athlete has the strength and endurance to be able to complete the skill. Teaching skills to an athlete who is not physically ready for the skill leads to failure, potential injury. The coach should be punished for pushing children beyond their fitness level, not the athlete. For more help with a fun conditioning program, go to kathytoomanpt.com