WAG Div I NCAA Walk-On Offer Info

[MeetDirector]

my point being that there are many talented US 10s overlooked because this is happening...

And not just gymnastically talented - a lot of very academically talented Level 10 gymnasts are overlooked for the non-US athletes. They could really add to the team's GPA, but ...

 

[bookworm]

And not just gymnastically talented - a lot of very academically talented Level 10 gymnasts are overlooked for the non-US athletes. They could really add to the team's GPA, but ...

And there's that too....but don't get me started...

 

[Stormy]

And there's that too....but don't get me started...[/QUOTE
Back to the US and the question I was asking....any thoughts on this:
in a recent college coach message the college coach said in regard to the available scholarship that it was not full out of state tuition. I had in my mind that some programs are not fully funded by whatever amount D1s give for scholarhips that each girl got the same amount. I didn't think there was a distinction between in-state and out of state? I'm really feeling dense again......can explain what the college coach meant?

 

[Stormy]

And there's that too....but don't get me started...

Back to the US and the question I was asking....any thoughts on this:
in a recent college coach message the college coach said in regard to the available scholarship that it was not full out of state tuition. I had in my mind that some programs are not fully funded by whatever amount D1s give for scholarhips that each girl got the same amount. I didn't think there was a distinction between in-state and out of state? I'm really feeling dense again......can explain what the college coach meant?

 

[bookworm]

Back to the US and the question I was asking....any thoughts on this:
in a recent college coach message the college coach said in regard to the available scholarship that it was not full out of state tuition. I had in my mind that some programs are not fully funded by whatever amount D1s give for scholarships that each girl got the same amount. I didn't think there was a distinction between in-state and out of state? I'm really feeling dense again......can explain what the college coach meant?

Is this a D1 program you are referring to? I think the NC schools make the distinction when admitting in/out of state for spots but not sure of other states... but here is some info for you. I can tell you that my daughter was considered out of state for the school she is at and she ( and her scholarshipped teammates) are fully funded at the out of state rate...we never see a bill so it's not like we get an "out of state " bill and submit it and Susie, the in state girl, gets an "in state" bill...it is all taken care of through the athletic department. I would definitely ask if there would be full funding , and would she get the cost of attendance stipend as well...and if the answer is no to either, ask for the exact amount that they are granting to her.

D1 schools abide by these limits:

* Women's NCAA Division I gymnastics is a head-count sport for purposes of awarding athletic scholarships so 12 awards are the absolute limit; gymnastics is an equivalency sport for all other divisions, so partial scholarships can be awarded to meet the limit per school. For example, an NCAA Division II school can award 12 female gymnasts each a 1/2 scholarship and still meet the limit of 6 per school.

And then there's also this:

2) Average Athletic Scholarship is the average amount of athletically related student aid per athlete for ALL varsity sports sponsored by the specific school. Some athletes receive full awards, some receive partial and many receive none. Additionally some sports within a school may be fully funded, some partially and some sports provide no athletic scholarships. Private schools generally have higher tuition than public schools and the average award will reflect this.

(3) Financial Assistance to all undergraduates includes ALL forms of student financial assistance including athletic and academic scholarships, grants and other financial aid. “% receiving” is the percentage of all undergraduates who received some form of financial assistance. “Average $” is the average award to those undergraduates who received some form of financial assistance during the year.

For more info on particular schools, go to www.scholarshipstats.com/gymnastics.html

 

[claudidoll]

As someone out of the US, please keep in mind that many children from your country go elsewhere for collage. The medical school in my province has many US students and some of them receive hefty scholarships. You wouldn't want them disqualified because them are American just like I wouldn't want my daughter disqualified for being Canadian...

 

[bookworm]

As someone out of the US, please keep in mind that many children from your country go elsewhere for collage. The medical school in my province has many US students and some of them receive hefty scholarships. You wouldn't want them disqualified because them are American just like I wouldn't want my daughter disqualified for being Canadian...

But are those scholarships that you speak of provided by the private university , or the taxpayers? I don't have a problem with Stanford doling out its money as it sees fit as it is a private institution but at our public colleges, supported by taxpayer dollars, I do have an issue with that...and the percentages of non-US athletes getting the scholarships is troubling as well...a team of only 12 scholarshipped kids should not have a significant percentage of out of country full rides (Michigan St has 2, Ohio St has at least 3 this year, UCLA has 2 that I can think of right now....)...and there isn't an option for a US gymnast to seek a full ride for gym in another country to kind of balance it out...

And when you say "some of them receive hefty scholarships", that is the difference, ALL of the kids cited previously receive full rides at the schools. To me, our JO system is producing enough talented and qualified gymnasts to be on our own college teams without looking elsewhere, before all options are exhausted. And I think college coaches are giving the non-US gymnast the benefit of the doubt not given to a US gymnast with similar talent, because the foreign gymnast can list themselves as on "X National Team" and that looks impressive , versus Susie the 3 year level 10 who makes it to JOs every year, scores in the 37s , but never does elite here in this country.....the playing field between the two isn't even.

 

[claudidoll]

They are publicly funded universities. Are there no examples of international students who compete without a scholarship? And if not perhaps it's because the cost of an education in the US is so much higher than at home so not really an option without it. I'm curious what percentage of kids on athletic scholarships are international students...

 

[claudidoll]

And I would hope that in the unlikely event that my child was offered a scholarship anywhere for anything it would be because she earned it.

 

[profmom]

Stormy, I can't help with the NCAA bit, but I can tell you that some funding grants at state universities will provide tuition waivers up to the cost of in-state tuition but the recipient will be responsible for the additional tuition charged to out-of-state residents. If that's what they are discussing, it's well worth figuring out what the rules are for qualifying for residency. These rules vary wildly from state to state, ranging from "go to school here for a year and you're a state resident" to "oh, so what if you lived here all your life, including going to college here, before leaving to get your first grad degree? You spent three years going to school somewhere else, and now there's no way we will accept you as a resident. HAHAHAHA!"

 

[gymmomx2]

But are those scholarships that you speak of provided by the private university , or the taxpayers? I don't have a problem with Stanford doling out its money as it sees fit as it is a private institution but at our public colleges, supported by taxpayer dollars, I do have an issue with that...and the percentages of non-US athletes getting the scholarships is troubling as well...a team of only 12 scholarshipped kids should not have a significant percentage of out of country full rides (Michigan St has 2, Ohio St has at least 3 this year, UCLA has 2 that I can think of right now....)...and there isn't an option for a US gymnast to seek a full ride for gym in another country to kind of balance it out...

And when you say "some of them receive hefty scholarships", that is the difference, ALL of the kids cited previously receive full rides at the schools. To me, our JO system is producing enough talented and qualified gymnasts to be on our own college teams without looking elsewhere, before all options are exhausted. And I think college coaches are giving the non-US gymnast the benefit of the doubt not given to a US gymnast with similar talent, because the foreign gymnast can list themselves as on "X National Team" and that looks impressive , versus Susie the 3 year level 10 who makes it to JOs every year, scores in the 37s , but never does elite here in this country.....the playing field between the two isn't even.

We don't have private universities as far as I know - all of them are funded in part by the government.

As far as Canadian national team members in the NCAA - aren't the majority of them very strong contributing members of their team, in the regular lineup over L10 athletes who also have full ride scholarships? I'm thinking of Peng Peng Lee, Vaculik sisters, Stef Merkle, Britt Rogers, etc. Are there others who are not competing (not due to health reasons)?

 

[flippin out]

As someone out of the US, please keep in mind that many children from your country go elsewhere for collage. The medical school in my province has many US students and some of them receive hefty scholarships. You wouldn't want them disqualified because them are American just like I wouldn't want my daughter disqualified for being Canadian...

I think for me, there are fine medical schools here....so if my kid or any other U.S. kid chooses to go overseas for their medical education, I fully expect that they would be paying for it (just like here). I wouldn't think that if that overseas medical school only offered 12 students funding every year that the student that is not a resident of that country would be eligible for that funding.
Curious, what degrees are the non resident athletes here seeking? Are they readily available degrees back in their home of origins?
I am not saying that I don't think that they should be on a team....just that the full ride should go to a resident first.

 

[gymmomx2]

I think (don't know for sure, of course) that the Canadian athletes competing in the NCAA on full rides (not just gymnastics) do so because:

1. They want the athletic experience of competing in the NCAA. University level sports here are a joke compared to the US, there is very little support comparatively (both school support and fan support).

2. They get a free education. We don't have any full ride athletic scholarships in Canada that I'm aware of.

They do not choose to study in the US because of the degrees, we have plenty of excellent universities here with equivalent degrees.

 

[wallflower]

It varies widely from school to school, but athletic scholarships at state schools are not necessarily tax payer funded. A lot of athletic programs rely heavily on donors and their own revenue to fund athletic scholarships along with fees they pass on to the students.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with foreign athletes taking these scholarships. And I disagree that they are given the benefit of the doubt because they are on their countries national team. They are top athletes. Recruiting/signing a foreign athlete takes some extra work. If the schools had a comparable American athlete they would take them. If they chose a foreign athlete it's because they felt like they were better. Some schools leave scholarships unused because there was nobody of the caliber they were looking for that year. Better to hold off to the next year. I don't think being a resident should give you first dibs on athletic scholarships. The coaches job is to put together the best team possible.

 

[bookworm]

It varies widely from school to school, but athletic scholarships at state schools are not necessarily tax payer funded. A lot of athletic programs rely heavily on donors and their own revenue to fund athletic scholarships along with fees they pass on to the students.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with foreign athletes taking these scholarships. And I disagree that they are given the benefit of the doubt because they are on their countries national team. They are top athletes. Recruiting/signing a foreign athlete takes some extra work. If the schools had a comparable American athlete they would take them. If they chose a foreign athlete it's because they felt like they were better. Some schools leave scholarships unused because there was nobody of the caliber they were looking for that year. Better to hold off to the next year. I don't think being a resident should give you first dibs on athletic scholarships. The coaches job is to put together the best team possible.

Having seen and experienced this first hand, we'll agree to disagree on this....

 

[Stormy]

Is this a D1 program you are referring to? I think the NC schools make the distinction when admitting in/out of state for spots but not sure of other states... but here is some info for you. I can tell you that my daughter was considered out of state for the school she is at and she ( and her scholarshipped teammates) are fully funded at the out of state rate...we never see a bill so it's not like we get an "out of state " bill and submit it and Susie, the in state girl, gets an "in state" bill...it is all taken care of through the athletic department. I would definitely ask if there would be full funding , and would she get the cost of attendance stipend as well...and if the answer is no to either, ask for the exact amount that they are granting to her.

D1 schools abide by these limits:

* Women's NCAA Division I gymnastics is a head-count sport for purposes of awarding athletic scholarships so 12 awards are the absolute limit; gymnastics is an equivalency sport for all other divisions, so partial scholarships can be awarded to meet the limit per school. For example, an NCAA Division II school can award 12 female gymnasts each a 1/2 scholarship and still meet the limit of 6 per school.

And then there's also this:

2) Average Athletic Scholarship is the average amount of athletically related student aid per athlete for ALL varsity sports sponsored by the specific school. Some athletes receive full awards, some receive partial and many receive none. Additionally some sports within a school may be fully funded, some partially and some sports provide no athletic scholarships. Private schools generally have higher tuition than public schools and the average award will reflect this.

(3) Financial Assistance to all undergraduates includes ALL forms of student financial assistance including athletic and academic scholarships, grants and other financial aid. “% receiving” is the percentage of all undergraduates who received some form of financial assistance. “Average $” is the average award to those undergraduates who received some form of financial assistance during the year.

For more info on particular schools, go to www.scholarshipstats.com/gymnastics.html

Yes, it is a D1. I have been wracking my brain trying to think of possibilities of what the Coach meant. I could understand if she said the program wasn't fully funded. I would interpret that to mean that their gymnastics program, although it is a D1 doesn't have the money to fund 12 full scholarships so they fund the 12 gymnasts at some percentage, say 80% of tuition, room, and board. But each of the 12 gymnasts get 80% of those things. All 12 get the exact same. I think Towson is not fully funded and imagine they do something like I described, but I can't figure out under what circumstances a D1 can distinguish between scholarships for in-state and out of state athletes.

 

[gymdog]

Having seen and experienced this first hand, we'll agree to disagree on this....

Well, it is true that most athletic programs rely heavily if not entirely on revenue (football/basketball), fees, and donations. Actually this is increasingly true for "state schools" in general. Most are getting shrinking amounts of funding with state budget cuts and state budgets feeling the squeeze of Medicaid, etc. Often there is a "fee" tacked on to the tuition payments of all attending students that is earmarked for the athletics programs. So really what happens in the cases of those schools is that a lot of families/students who are non athletes are paying full freight to offset the cost of all scholarship athletes no matter where they come from. But the position of the universities of course is this is part of what makes a good university.

plus for the relatively small amount of potential tax payer funding in most cases I suppose there's really not a difference between an international student and a student from out of state. Not all states have the same taxes and same public university options so it doesn't all even out. Also not sure a big athletic program can just be run the way the NCAA wants to function by just limiting its recruiting to state residents. Might be interesting though, that would just mean the most successful programs would be in the most successful gymnastics states (get ready for Stanford and UCLA!). But since I believe from what you've posted on here your own family has pursued out of state recruiting opportunities, I'm sure you'd agree this really wouldn't be best or logical.

There might be something to the argument that they're taking spots from deserving level 10s here but I'm not really sure where you draw that line. It's an athletic competition. If the coaches can't determine the relative skill of a gymnast from an international program, their recruiting is not very good and their program will suffer. Personally I don't really know that's the case on a large scale basis. I think there are a few programs out there where the recruiting is just a mess in general.

 

[BachFlyer]

I would just add that frequently academic scholarships are given to international students, probably more frequently.And the kids who are getting them are probably pretty bright. The athletes that are getting scholarships are all excellent athletes. It is in the university's best interest to get high caliber students whether that is academic or athletic, because it builds their reputation, so I don't see a distinction.

 

[profmom]

The big concern for many international students is not so much a tuition differential -- at state schools, there's generally just an in-state and out-of-state rate, and the out-of-state rate is the same for students from other US states and international students -- but rather the type of health insurance that universities require their international students to carry. This comes as a real shock in particular to students from countries with single payer systems.

If you are concerned about access to higher education, be aware that athletic scholarships to international students is a very tiny sliver. The much bigger issue is the massive relative disinvestment of US states in higher education and the corresponding shift of incentives for state schools to chase tuition and grant revenue frantically rather than prioritizing the building of strong, excellent, broad-based institutions staffed primarily by full-time, tenure-stream faculty.

/soapbox

 

[bookworm]

I think there are a few programs out there where the recruiting is just a mess in general.

And there's that....but again, don't get me started...