Dunno- 5 year olds and dive rolls

[gymmomtotwo]

Hi Dunno,

Saw your remarks in the coaches section. I have five year old on preteam in a group for 4-6 year olds, though in reality they are all 5-7 with the year almost over, and moveups soon. She will be six at the end of the summer. The group has been doing running, diving and doing handstand flatbacks over a barrel all year. Less frequently, they dive over the barrel and do a somersault instead. It's a thick mat they land on, but it's drawn a few gasps from parents along the way. There are 2 five year olds in the group. At what age does this skill become appropriate and what should I do about it? She's slated to move up to the next group in June. Are there specific reasons I can give ours coaches for my concerns (obviously their little necks). I mean are the coaching guidelines not being followed. Something I can say besides that looks scary....

 

[cbone]

I'm obviously not dunno, but is this the normal Level 3 "dive roll" vault?

 

[gymmomtotwo]

No, this is a drill done on the floor. There is no springboard involved. They are maybe landing on like a mat 12 inches thick? Something like that.

 

[cbone]

I still may be too new to drop this, but- YIKES!

 

[pattymello]

I would be a little worried about 5 year olds doing a dive roll on floor. however kids develop at different ages and they may very well be ready for it. Maybe just approach the coach and ask him if they are really ready to do dive rolls at that age.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

no dive rolls under 7. up a mat, down a mat or on a hard floor. and yes...you might get a 6 year old exceptionally gifted kid every 1 in 4 million births. but i still wouldn't do it...with my kid or anybody elses. that's all.

dive rolls are found in the USAG safety manual that everyone is tested on AND in the Hots program AND PDP level 1 certification.


by the way, level 3 is recreational gymnastics. most kids are not 5 when they start gymnastics. most kids will be in a program for a couple of years and then begin the learning of a dive roll if they show promise as they get near level 5. a dive roll is an ADVANCED skill. not a 5 year old skill.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Hi Dunno,

Saw your remarks in the coaches section. I have five year old on preteam in a group for 4-6 year olds, though in reality they are all 5-7 with the year almost over, and moveups soon. She will be six at the end of the summer. The group has been doing running, diving and doing handstand flatbacks over a barrel all year. Less frequently, they dive over the barrel and do a somersault instead. It's a thick mat they land on, but it's drawn a few gasps from parents along the way. There are 2 five year olds in the group. At what age does this skill become appropriate and what should I do about it? She's slated to move up to the next group in June. Are there specific reasons I can give ours coaches for my concerns (obviously their little necks). I mean are the coaching guidelines not being followed. Something I can say besides that looks scary....

in bold. i don't care how good a coach thinks they are. unless they are spotting them from beginning to end on what's in bold, you are asking for a spinal cord injury. if you don't believe me on this, contact national office or the elite coaches association. posit the question and wait for the reply.

i got a migraine now from just reading what's in bold.

 

[iwannacoach]

Accidents are what they are because they don't announce themselves in advance of their arrival. The collective body of reasoned gymnastics coaches may not all agree on the safety of a dive roll, but I would hope all of us are creative and inteligent enough to find other skills that are more important than a dive roll in the course of developing a young gymnast.

Ignorance is what it is because there is no way to know, "what you don't know". I just hope your coaches don't have a sudden "awakening" as they look down at a child on that 12" mat who "won't get up". Don't let these coaches put their "dirty diapers" on you, as they can fill them up faster than most of us.......

 

[Kiwi]

I'm confused about this one. What is the normal level 3 dive roll vault? Why is it in level 3 if not appropriate for young children? How big of a dive are we talking about here?

 

[JessLW]

I'm confused about this one. What is the normal level 3 dive roll vault? Why is it in level 3 if not appropriate for young children? How big of a dive are we talking about here?

This is what I'm confused about too. Aren't 5 year olds age elibible to compete level 3? And the vault is a dive roll, right? I'm not trying to be contradictory here, just wondering what I'm missing. Is the dive roll vault less dangerous to their necks than an actual dive roll?

 

[lhmom]

I think there is a big difference between doing something of a dive roll from a springboard on to a squishy mat and doing a dive roll on the floor. DD's group has been working on dive rolls for level 5. I am way more comfortable watching them at this age when they have a clearer understanding of what the coaches want them to do (range in age from 7 to 10) and have a lot of strength and conditioning under their belts than I would be for really little ones. Just my opinion though.

 

[AmandaLynn]

Just a side note, but I'm SO glad to see that dive roll vault going away in the new 2013 routines. It's completely pointless.

 

[mommyof1]

This is all pretty scary. Does USAG have a comprehensive list of skills that are safe/unsafe at various ages, or a set of safety standards somewhere on the web that parents can view? And, as others have asked, why on earth is the Level 3 vault a dive roll if the skill isn't safe for little kids to do?

I am also wondering about how close to an actual dive roll you can safely get with kids under 7. For instance, is it safe for a little kid to stand on a springboard or tumble track with her hands on a wedge mat, bounce on her feet while keeping her hands in place, and then do a forward roll out of the bounce?

And what about handstand forward rolls? Neither the bent-arm nor the straight-arm version looks terribly safe to me.

 

[AmandaLynn]

Okay, so I was just looking through the April issue of Technique again and noticed that there is no dive roll in the list of skills for Level 4 in the new routines either. Does anyone know if it's going away on floor in the new compulsory routines as well?

 

[wandrewsjr]

Yep - my understanding is that the dive roll is gone from the level 5(what will be level 4) floor routine

 

[iwannacoach]

This is all pretty scary. Does USAG have a comprehensive list of skills that are safe/unsafe at various ages, or a set of safety standards somewhere on the web that parents can view? And, as others have asked, why on earth is the Level 3 vault a dive roll if the skill isn't safe for little kids to do?

I am also wondering about how close to an actual dive roll you can safely get with kids under 7. For instance, is it safe for a little kid to stand on a springboard or tumble track with her hands on a wedge mat, bounce on her feet while keeping her hands in place, and then do a forward roll out of the bounce?

And what about handstand forward rolls? Neither the bent-arm nor the straight-arm version looks terribly safe to me.

I feel that there is an increased risk for children under the age of 7 that essentially "doubles" with each year's decrease in age. IMO a four year old is four times more likely to be injured than a seven year old. I see no reason for any 4 year old to do even the most "modified dive roll" imaginable. There just has not been enough "experience base" collected to convince me it's even 99% safe. So ask yourself a question...If I had 100 four year old children working modified dive rolls, and had to send one of them to the emergency room, should I be commended for making progress with and keeping the 99% safe? Accidents happen, but they should not happen while ignoring the structural and mental fraility of a four year old.

I like the "modified dive roll" as you descibed it, as it takes away the flight and gravity aspects of the skill, but wonder at the same time if there's a value to it prior to the year before a dive roll is going to be encountered in the level a child is forecast to be at. It should be ok if they are taught to place and leave their hands on the tall end of the wedge, and have been given adequate instructions in technique and safety (taught how to keep their knees away from their face). I'd let this progress to a run-up to a spring board where they can "bounce off" and place their hands on a mat stack, at least waist high, and place their hands onto the stack while lifting their hips into a forward roll, but with no flight. I don't believe it's safe or productive to place an object between the board and the mat to give them an inducement to increase their distance or height. Those gains should come about as a result of correct instruction about body positions, proper run-up and repetition.

Handstand forward rolls from the floor, up to a 12" mat would be ok, but only after being instructed in proper technique and safety. The mat height can be gradually reduced as the group demonstrates competence with this modification.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I feel that there is an increased risk for children under the age of 7 that essentially "doubles" with each year's decrease in age. IMO a four year old is four times more likely to be injured than a seven year old. I see no reason for any 4 year old to do even the most "modified dive roll" imaginable. There just has not been enough "experience base" collected to convince me it's even 99% safe. So ask yourself a question...If I had 100 four year old children working modified dive rolls, and had to send one of them to the emergency room, should I be commended for making progress with and keeping the 99% safe? Accidents happen, but they should not happen while ignoring the structural and mental fraility of a four year old.

I like the "modified dive roll" as you descibed it, as it takes away the flight and gravity aspects of the skill, but wonder at the same time if there's a value to it prior to the year before a dive roll is going to be encountered in the level a child is forecast to be at. It should be ok if they are taught to place and leave their hands on the tall end of the wedge, and have been given adequate instructions in technique and safety (taught how to keep their knees away from their face). I'd let this progress to a run-up to a spring board where they can "bounce off" and place their hands on a mat stack, at least waist high, and place their hands onto the stack while lifting their hips into a forward roll, but with no flight. I don't believe it's safe or productive to place an object between the board and the mat to give them an inducement to increase their distance or height. Those gains should come about as a result of correct instruction about body positions, proper run-up and repetition.

Handstand forward rolls from the floor, up to a 12" mat would be ok, but only after being instructed in proper technique and safety. The mat height can be gradually reduced as the group demonstrates competence with this modification.

in bold. it is here where the risk increases in a bad way. in 2012, i still am dumbfounded by the things being taught in some of the gyms.

 

[coachmolly]

I have seen too many gyms attempt to teach dive rolls to kids at a beginner or advanced beginner level and it almost never fails to make me cringe- scary stuff. And I agree with lhmom that there is a difference between teaching a dive roll on floor- to a beginner- and a dive roll from a springboard onto a mat to a pre-team kid, though the level 3 vault is not my favorite thing in the world and I'm also glad it's changing.
Eek, this is just bringing back memories of scary gymnastics moments. HATE dive rolls with younger and/or rec. kids.

 

[Sarah'sMom]

I'm guessing from what I'm reading here that it's not such a great idea to hold a foam noodle up in the air and having kids dive over it into a dive roll....

 

[Deleted member D3987]

No! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^bad idea...very bad idea.