Parents Excel question

[crazygymstermom]

We were looking at team pictures at the gym the other day and hubby was asking what excel was. I know very little about it myself so I was hoping some of you could give us some insight. Thanks!

 

[Sasha]

Hi,

There are a bunch of previous threads you can search on if you like (search for "Xcel"), but I"ll try to sum a few points to start you out...

-Xcel is simply a different 'track' or program that competes separately from JO (junior Olympic). Note: Junior Olympic does not imply that this is a track to the actual Olympics.
- Xcel is overall a more 'inclusive' program than JO. You will likely see a broader range of ages, talents, and body shapes in Xcel.
- Xcel requires fewer hours of training, so girls can often enjoy other activities (JO will soon be training 16-24 hours per week at an early age, whereas Xcel can practice as low as 4 to 6 hours per week, up to about 9 depending on the program.)
- Xcel routines can be created for a specific team or gymnast - not all girls from all gyms have to compete the exact same 'compulsory' routines as JO requires.
-It's ok to have a 'weak' event, such as bars or beam, and still move to high levels of Xcel because events are tailored to the girls' skills. In JO, a girl must achieve a high level on every apparatus to move to the next level.
- Xcel is less picky about form than JO (JO requires utter perfection), which also means girls can sometimes learn new skills earlier, rather than perfecting the minute details required in JO.
- Xcel (I think) only competes against other Xcel - not against JO girls, and vice versa. Both teams compete in similar kinds of competitions, can earn medals, etc.
- Xcel doesn't have 'numbers' for levels - the levels are broader than JO and start at Bronze, then Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond.
- Because Xcel girls will not practice the long hours, ultimately JO is a track to a higher level of gymnastics. An Xcel path is not a path to elite gymnastics (D1 schools, Olympic athletes).
- In practice, the biggest difference between the girls in JO and the girls in Xcel is often bars. Bars are a hard apparatus for many girls due to strength to weight ratio, and often higher hours of JO are required to advance on bars, in particular. So bar skills fall behind in Xcel, typically. Other events seem to be more comparable, skill-wise, between girls in Xcel and JO, but the JO girls will ultimately show better form (on average) due to the intense hours of practicing the precise forms.

Also note that each State, area, and gym each do things a little differently, so there may be some differing details or variations of the above from gym to gym.

Hope I helped a little!
S

 

[Becauseisaid]

- Xcel is less picky about form than JO (JO requires utter perfection), which also means girls can sometimes learn new skills earlier, rather than perfecting the minute details required in JO.

One correction....the form required to compete Excel is completely dependent on the judges at the competitions. I can tell you that in TN, your form better be spot on because the judges are the same ones judging JO. In fact most competitions have both Excel and JO during the competition.

I know that a lot of our local gyms prefer to compete JO in the fall, attend the state meet in Dec, and then compete Excel in the spring attending the state meet in March for Excel.

 

[gymgal]

One correction....the form required to compete Excel is completely dependent on the judges at the competitions. I can tell you that in TN, your form better be spot on because the judges are the same ones judging JO. In fact most competitions have both Excel and JO during the competition.

I know that a lot of our local gyms prefer to compete JO in the fall, attend the state meet in Dec, and then compete Excel in the spring attending the state meet in March for Excel.

TN is region 8, where xcel is used differently by many gyms than in the other regions. The level of competition is higher because many gyms use xcel as a supplement in the winter to their compulsory programs and many other gyms use it instead of compulsory, transitioning to optionals afterward. So the judging is harsher than you would see in other regions.

 

[Becauseisaid]

TN is region 8, where xcel is used differently by many gyms than in the other regions. The level of competition is higher because many gyms use xcel as a supplement in the winter to their compulsory programs and many other gyms use it instead of compulsory, transitioning to optionals afterward. So the judging is harsher than you would see in other regions.

Exactly. I think we're one of the few states that offers 2 state meets for compulsories as well - one in the fall and one in spring. Weird state.

 

[raenndrops]

Exactly. I think we're one of the few states that offers 2 state meets for compulsories as well - one in the fall and one in spring. Weird state.

Until this year (with the level changes), Ohio also had 2 state meets for compulsories. They may or may not go back to it now that they have seen how the levels "shake out" ... and we have found that the judges are picky on form for Xcel here too. As you said before - same meets, same judges. We have even had judges mess up when judging Xcel (before the COP was finished, so coach didn't have proof of the rules with her)... 4 of our girls lost SV on bars in one meet because the judge decided if there wasn't a cast to horizontal, she wouldn't give the SR credit AND took form deductions... even if they were just slightly short or were just arched (either way, they should have gotten the SR and JUST had form deductions or up to 0.2 deduction for being short of horizontal).

 

[Becauseisaid]

Until this year (with the level changes), Ohio also had 2 state meets for compulsories.

TN was the opposite with just 1 compulsory state meet until this year's level changes when they added compulsories to the optionals state meet. It will be interesting to see what that does to the Excel program here now that you can compete both fall AND spring compulsories. Bet we start seeing girls fast-tracked through the levels.

 

[raenndrops]

TN was the opposite with just 1 compulsory state meet until this year's level changes when they added compulsories to the optionals state meet. It will be interesting to see what that does to the Excel program here now that you can compete both fall AND spring compulsories. Bet we start seeing girls fast-tracked through the levels.

You will either see girls fast-tracked or you will see teams that seem to sandbag it.

I know of a team up here that had a girl compete Old L3 in the fall season... scored 37.825 in the State Meet (9.85 on Floor... lowest score was Beam with a 9.10). That spring season, she competed L3 AGAIN. They didn't have a spring State meet for Old L3. She was consistently scoring high 37s to low 38s. The coach could have moved her to Old L4 for the spring (she had the skills and knew the routines), but didn't want to. The following year, she was Old L5 (37.25 at State). Then she scored out of Old L6 so she could compete New L6 this year. With this girl, they seemed to sandbag for the wins (team consistently top 1 or 2 in meets)... there was another girl that they fast-tracked at the same time... competed L3 with the other girl... L4 that spring (1st @ state)... L5 the following year (she did compete L5 and L6 in one meet mid-season... lol and scored better on 3/4 events in the L6 session than the L5 session). 1st place at L5 State. Competed 2 meets at New L6 (37+ in both meets), then moved to L7. Next year, she will be a 10 yo L8.

 

[twinmomma]

I'd argue that it's not that form is less important, it's that the requirements are less strict than compulsories. However, they are expected to do what they do with the proper form and technique. For example, the handstand on the beam in bronze is not required to hit vertical. But it must have straight legs, pointed toes, etc... In addition, you cannot compete a level if you can't manage all the requirements at that level, there is just more flexibility on what MEETS the requirements at a particular level.

 

[wnl256]

TN is region 8, where xcel is used differently by many gyms than in the other regions. The level of competition is higher because many gyms use xcel as a supplement in the winter to their compulsory programs and many other gyms use it instead of compulsory, transitioning to optionals afterward. So the judging is harsher than you would see in other regions.

Wasn't one of the reasons for the Great Level Change in JO last year to prevent JO gymnasts from bleeding over in to Xcel?

I love the idea of Xcel, so that those who can't put in the commitment for JO (or can't achieve the high level of perfection that JO demands) can still enjoy the sport and feel successful at it. To have JO athletes cross over and raise the level of competition seems contrary to the purpose behind Xcel.

 

[wnl256]

To the OP:

I would also add: all levels in Xcel are an "optional" format. Each gymnast can choose routines comprised of allowed elements and can choose their own music for floor. In JO optionals don't start until level 6.

And, yes, Xcel levels are separate from JO levels at a competition. They may be intermixed in a session, but they are judged differently and placed separately.

 

[crazygymstermom]

Thanks for the insight everyone!

 

[Quadqueen]

To the OP:

I would also add: all levels in Xcel are an "optional" format. Each gymnast can choose routines comprised of allowed elements and can choose their own music for floor. In JO optionals don't start until level 6.

And, yes, Xcel levels are separate from JO levels at a competition. They may be intermixed in a session, but they are judged differently and placed separately.

Just to clarify, around here, some gyms have the same routine for all bronze and silver, for example, which I assume is to simplify the process of teaching the routine. It is the gym's own routine, but not different for each girl (although you may see RO-BHS in some and RO-backward roll from others).

 

[raenndrops]

Just to clarify, around here, some gyms have the same routine for all bronze and silver, for example, which I assume is to simplify the process of teaching the routine. It is the gym's own routine, but not different for each girl (although you may see RO-BHS in some and RO-backward roll from others).

That is for simplicity purposes... especially if a gym has a large Xcel team. The beauty of it is that you can have the same music for the girls... but they can do their own tumbling skills (and jumps and anything else the coach lets them personalize). Some gyms will have 2-3 different musics the girls pick from... but the basics of the routine are the same, even with different musics... Starting position, cutesy fluff, tumbling pass, more cutesy stuff, leap series, cutesy stuff, 2nd tumbling pass, ending pose.

@wnl256 Yes, the great level change WAS to stop the bleeding INTO Xcel.... but some gyms (especially in region 8) don't like compulsories, so they START their gymnasts in Xcel until they are ready for L6 or L7 (so they have them compete Bronze, Silver, Gold, and maybe Platinum, then score out of L4 and L5). These girls have no JO experience, so it isn't like gyms that have them compete JO... then bypass L5 and compete Xcel until they are ready for L6 or L7.

 

[Becauseisaid]

You will either see girls fast-tracked or you will see teams that seem to sandbag it.

Sandbagging is already an issue here and has been for years. When one of the owner/HC is bragging about how she has kids who "retire" at L3, you know it's about the score and not the kid. But - hey! - they're a winning gym!

 

[Becauseisaid]

Yes, the great level change WAS to stop the bleeding INTO Xcel.... but some gyms (especially in region 8) don't like compulsories, so they START their gymnasts in Xcel until they are ready for L6 or L7 (so they have them compete Bronze, Silver, Gold, and maybe Platinum, then score out of L4 and L5). These girls have no JO experience, so it isn't like gyms that have them compete JO... then bypass L5 and compete Xcel until they are ready for L6 or L7.

Can't speak for the rest of Region 8, but I can tell you that around middle TN, girls compete BOTH JO and Excel in 1 season. Fall for JO, Spring for Excel. A lot of gyms use Excel in the Spring to keep their JO girls competing while they can concentrate on their optional girls.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Our HC just announced today that she is not continuing in xcel next year. In our area it has become another JO- kids practicing 15 hours a week for xcel bronze and repeating the level two to three times at that. Our girls train six hours a week for xcel,bronze, and while they are progressing nicely, there is just no way for there to be a level playing field for them. Next year she is going with two tracks for IGC (one fully competitive and one only locally competitive) and usag for levels 5+.

 

[myeyeson_u]

@raenndrops DD's gym competes Xcel, compulsory and optionals. Compulsory in the fall and Xcel and Optionals in the Spring. We don't compete Bronze or Diamond. From what the HC told me before DD joined the gym, they used Silver instead of new L3, so that they wouldn't have to use the new USAG level change. Now the rest of the gyms in our state that use Xcel, I don't know if they "don't like compulsories", as you stated. And use the route you mentioned. And if the girls that compete Silver are capable of competing L4 and L5 and have the skills, then yes, they will score out of those levels. But only if coach and the gaining coach feel that they have those skills.

And to the OP, my DD is Silver, but because she had too because of the time she came to the gym and when compulsory began competing (she didn't have her kip and their first meet was in Aug. We came in July). Now that she's been there sometime and has competed, she has the skills to compete compulsory. But the only way she'll compete compulsory is if they decide to use L6 next season. And I've seen some of the judges that sit at DD's meets, sit at optionals meet. So the comment about diff judges is inaccurate. And someone mentioned something about less hours. Also inaccurate. DD & Gold practices the same amount of hours as our used to be L4's, 12 hours a week. When DD was old L4 at her old gym, she practiced LESS than she does now (9 hrs). Platinum practices 16hrs a week. Old L5/6 at her old gym practiced 12 hrs a week. And we were in Region 5. So I know what the USAG site may have for Xcel, but clearly every club uses it differently.

 

[wnl256]

And I've seen some of the judges that sit at DD's meets, sit at optionals meet. So the comment about diff judges is inaccurate.

I never said the judges were different. I said the gymnasts were judged differently. As in, judged by different standards. The judges know the difference between the levels and change their scoring accordingly. At least that's what I've seen sitting at the scoring table during meets.

 

[mariposa]

As always, some clubs will take advantage. I think USAG needs to set hour limits or guidelines. It's tough when your 4 and 7 hour a week kids are going up against those that are doing same hours as compulsories. It's against the spirit of what XCEL is supposed to be for. And compulsory fall kids shouldn't be competing in XCEL in spring meets either. Unfair for the kids doing XCEL to have less hours, be more affordable, etc.