WAG Gymnast and a coach parent

[gymisforeveryone]

I coach an 8 year old gymnast whose mother did gymnastics in the past. Her mum is my assistant coach and has been over a year. She is a wonderful assistant for me and she's really good with the kids. She's a warm and steady person but demanding coach and does great job. The problem is her daughter. She has started to fool around at practices, has fake injuries and pains sometimes, complains a lot, doesn't seem to focus and sometimes cheats on conditioning.

She HAS some real natural talent and last year she was always the first one to get new skills and the one I picked to demonstrate skills and drills etc. She was also the first one to compete. At the beginning of this fall season we regrouped kids and placed 7 new kids into this group. So we had 5 old gymnasts and 7 new, all turning 8 in 2013. The new kids were good and had more strength and more skills because they had been practicing longer hours than our old group in 2012-2013. I think it was quite hard for her to adjust to longer training sessions and hard work needed to success and get new skills. And the hardest part for her must have been to realize she's not the "best" in the group anymore.

Now she's driving her mum nuts at every practice. Her mum is very strict with the rules and work ethic and makes kids work hard and doesn't allow any fooling around or cheating. But when it comes to her daughter... She doesn't like her daughter's behavior and sometimes she yells at her, sometimes she tries to ignore, sometimes she comes to me and asks me to discipline her daughter. Nothing seems to work really.

Her mother has told me daughter sometimes refuses to go to practice etc. Her mother has to take her to the gym anyway because she's committed to the group and can't leave the kid home alone. I don't want this kid to quit because I think she LIKES the sport but just wants to resist against her mum. I could imagine every kid in the group could behave like this if their parent was coaching them.

If the kid quit her mother would quit also and that's not what I want either! She's a great coach and it would be hard to find a new assistant.

My mum was my coach when I was a kid and I can tell I wasn't really an angel at her practices and I back talked A LOT. But when someone else coached me I didn't say a half word against the coach.

What would you do in this situation?

 

[mommyof1]

From a parental perspective, I found that after my daughter reached the age of about 4 or 5 it became a real battle for me or my husband to teach her anything. Swimming, tennis, music... she just does not want to learn it from us (even if we used to get paid to teach it to other people's kids!). As soon as we put her in a class or lessons and someone else is teaching her, she is enthusiastic and cooperative. Is it possible to have the mom work with another group, at least for a while? That would take the mother-daughter dynamic out of the equation and give you and the mom a chance to figure out if there are other issues at play.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

I agree that the child and mom should be in separate groups.

 

[2gymmies]

Very few can coach their own kid successfully. For all involved split them up!

 

[Quadqueen]

Agree on splitting them up, if possible. I used to coach rec/pre-team, and I moved groups whenever my DD was moving up to my group. I told my boss there was NO WAY I was coaching my daughter - that would never be a good experience for either of us!!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

split them up.

 

[wallinbl]

The girl is doing it because she wants her mother's attention, and can't handle the other girls getting it. Splitting them up may or may not help if this is the case, as she'll just fake an injury that "requires" her mom to pull away from coaching and come see her.

If it were me and my kid, I'd explain that I understood she really likes my attention and doesn't want to share it, but that it's important to learn to do so (my kids tend to be receptive to the "it's important to learn this" line of argument). I'd tell her that if she did disruptive things, she'd be removed from class to sit by herself. That causes the disruptions to get less attention from mom rather than more attention.

 

[bogwoppit]

Split them up if at all possible.

I spent lots of time at a gym where the coaches kids, one in particular, ended up ruling the roost. It will get ugly unless you can put a lid on it.

 

[gymdog]

If she has to stay with the mom I recommend she completely ignore her and not push her. And try to be consistent in that. Right now she's baiting mom with her behavior. If she says she doesn't want to go, I would say "that's fine, you can sit and watch". Hurt? "That's fine, you can sit and watch". Fooling around? "You're not doing it. That's fine, you can sit and watch."

 

[Deleted member 14190]

This is right up my alley, since I coached both of my kids and had two very different results. So here goes,,,, for the same reason we ask parents not to view is Almost the same for a coach to not teach his/her own child. The only difference is the coach is actually the coach, instead of being just a parent viewing and sometimes you can get away with this. However if you talk to most coaches you will find out that in large they were wildly unsuccessful in teaching his/her own child. In short, there is NO cure on your end and the burden falls on the mom/coach. (I will circle back to that at the end)
About my experience. My oldest did graduate and end up competing in college with me as her main vault/bar coach until then. We had rules about never talking about gym at home or in the car, EVER, unless it was about choosing colleges etc (remember that)... But the bottom line is, it just barely worked for her and I feel she would have done a little better having another coach instead of me. And this boils down to work ethic, and a constant learning curve on my end. Kudos to my DD because it really was her laid back personality and competitive nature that got her through it all.... My youngest on the other hand was a prime example of what happens to most kids over time with parental pressure in the gym. Problem were, not taking corrections and major fear issues developed which resulted in losing skills. I say the word developed because she was VERY brave early on and would chuck things until the pressure was too much and she just shut down... (taught herself back walkover and standing back handspring, then a few years later stopped doing both...) So I actually ended up pulling her off team because after about a year I could see that the fear issues were changing her personality at home and I needed to take the pressure off. It was a tough choice to make, but years later I can tell you it was a good decision. FYI, she started doing standing back handsprings again in the grass (self taught again) last summer....
Now back to your situation. In short this is what we worked on in the gym to make things work between myself and my kids. I as the coach COMPLETELY backed the other coaches in any disciplinary action they would take on my kids. And when I say the word BACKED that means that I DID NOT talk to my kids about it EVER, I just ignored it and turned a blind eye. (yes, to back is to completely ignore) This took a while for me to figure out, but getting the child to understand that they are in complete control of the coach that they are with is very important, and the fact that I NEVER addressed these problems with them only solidified this. That's it,,, If the mom/coach at your gyms is talking to her DD about any problems at home (TO HELP), she is actually creating a monster. She should not be helping to discipline, she should not be helping with ANYTHING. She should not be listening to her DD complain about this coach or that kid etc.... She needs to stand there and listen to her DD get in trouble and turn away and NEVER talk to her about it... Tell her what you need from her, but good luck,,, If mom/coach won't listen then its out of your hands.

 

[surfergirl]

I coach an 8 year old gymnast whose mother did gymnastics in the past. Her mum is my assistant coach and has been over a year. She is a wonderful assistant for me and she's really good with the kids. She's a warm and steady person but demanding coach and does great job. The problem is her daughter. She has started to fool around at practices, has fake injuries and pains sometimes, complains a lot, doesn't seem to focus and sometimes cheats on conditioning.

She HAS some real natural talent and last year she was always the first one to get new skills and the one I picked to demonstrate skills and drills etc. She was also the first one to compete. At the beginning of this fall season we regrouped kids and placed 7 new kids into this group. So we had 5 old gymnasts and 7 new, all turning 8 in 2013. The new kids were good and had more strength and more skills because they had been practicing longer hours than our old group in 2012-2013. I think it was quite hard for her to adjust to longer training sessions and hard work needed to success and get new skills. And the hardest part for her must have been to realize she's not the "best" in the group anymore.

Now she's driving her mum nuts at every practice. Her mum is very strict with the rules and work ethic and makes kids work hard and doesn't allow any fooling around or cheating. But when it comes to her daughter... She doesn't like her daughter's behavior and sometimes she yells at her, sometimes she tries to ignore, sometimes she comes to me and asks me to discipline her daughter. Nothing seems to work really.

Her mother has told me daughter sometimes refuses to go to practice etc. Her mother has to take her to the gym anyway because she's committed to the group and can't leave the kid home alone. I don't want this kid to quit because I think she LIKES the sport but just wants to resist against her mum. I could imagine every kid in the group could behave like this if their parent was coaching them.

If the kid quit her mother would quit also and that's not what I want either! She's a great coach and it would be hard to find a new assistant.

My mum was my coach when I was a kid and I can tell I wasn't really an angel at her practices and I back talked A LOT. But when someone else coached me I didn't say a half word against the coach.

What would you do in this situation?

 

[surfergirl]

Hi. I started coaching my daughter when she was 2 and she is now 8. (I coach her for cheer/tumbling, some bars and beam. Additionally, she has been in various gyms to compete in team gymnastics). There were a few years that were rough. She knew the rules while I was coaching and the rules at home were different. She could get away with more at the gym. I stayed consistent with the rules, and her behavior has improved a lot. She doesn't get any special treatment because she is my daughter. Sometimes she is quite mad about that. I don't care, and I make that obvious while I am coaching. If I am coaching her, I never send her to someone else for consequences for what she did to me. That would undermine my authority. That said, it is very hard to coach your own child.

I think each coach/parent needs to find what works for them. I am happy to coach my daughter 1-2 days a week and let someone else do it the rest of the time. Less stress. If I were in your shoes I would have a meeting with the coach to discuss some strategies for handling the child.

 

[iwannacoach]

Given the choice of coaching my own child, or doing headstands in a dung heap.......?

Dung heap headstands any and every day........ even the hot, sticky humid days.

You ought to present the matter to the child in the same light you presented it here. It may help her understand that you're taking the matter up because you care about her and her mother, and she may feel up to the task of addressing the issue with your help. Partly by changing her demeanor, and partly by coming to terms with her mother about the double jeopardy of experiencing the worst of her gymnastics practices in the gym, and again at home.

I have a simple rule I've asked my wife and kids to live by while in our home. That is to keep our home a place where each and all of us can feel safe from everything negative from the world beyond our homes walls. You just can't have a home and family that thrives without that.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Splitting them up would be ideal but it's not possible really. I can't move the daughter to another group because this is the only group for this age and level. I don't want to move her down and moving her up because of this would be unfair.

It's also a logistical problem. The mother has two kids, both do gym and for the younger one who is also talented the hours will increase in near future. So it wouldn't be possible for the family to drive two kids to practices and then for the mum to coach at different time and maybe in different place also. The kids would hang in gym at that time because they are so young and can't be home alone.

So if the kid quit the mum would quit coaching. She has a full time job and everything and isn't THAT passionate about the sport, she wouldn't continue if her kids weren't involved.

We have talked about the situation with her and she agrees we have a problem. I understand how hard it must be to be a mum at home but a coach at gym. The kid seems to expect a little special treatment but because she doesn't get any she acts up.

I think I'll talk to her again and suggest she totally ignores her daughter's bad behavior and only praises good behavior and corrects her gymnastics and spots her. But it's hard to draw a line between correcting her gymnastics and correcting her behavior.

 

[Sasha]

I like the responses that put more responsibility on the parent-coach here. The girl is 8 (not 4). Of course it is a huge challenge to teach your own kid (my DH does this in another sport), but a certain level of behavioral responsibility is expected at that age, parent coach or not. Clear expectations and consistent consequences (sitting out, extra conditioning, whatever) is what I would do if I was the parent and my DD was pushing boundaries. I second the suggestion by gymdog, delivered in a matter-of-fact way without the parent showing any emotional affect. Just keep attending to her other students who are behaving properly. Good luck! Much easier said than executed, I know.

If she has to stay with the mom I recommend she completely ignore her and not push her. And try to be consistent in that. Right now she's baiting mom with her behavior. If she says she doesn't want to go, I would say "that's fine, you can sit and watch". Hurt? "That's fine, you can sit and watch". Fooling around? "You're not doing it. That's fine, you can sit and watch."

 

[gymdog]

I second the suggestion by gymdog, delivered in a matter-of-fact way without the parent showing any emotional affect. Just keep attending to her other students who are behaving properly. Good luck! Much easier said than executed, I know.

It is much easier said than done. I remember Mary Lee Tracy's ten coaching rules to live by or whatever that she put out awhile ago, and one of then was "most of your attention should be directed at the hardest workers not the kids who aren't doing it" or something along those lines. It sounds obvious in some ways but it is SO hard in practice and I have to make a conscious effort.

I always want to treat all the kids fairly but this is really so true and the truth is sometimes a kid is trying to show you they need a little break either physically or emotionally. So if a kid isn't doing what my group is, I just send them to an easier drill that they can do very easily and supervise it in a way that looks to them like I'm not (I never recommend sending kids to a different area or allowing any unsupervised activity in reality). Since I've been doing this approach it will usually result in the child who wasn't making corrections and flopping around into getting the skill after a little solo work and thus improving their confidence and work within the group.