Parents Last Meet before States....still struggling with Vault Fears

[lilgymmie7]

I'm also afraid every gym will be the same...I've heard such stories other places. I never wanted to be a gym hopping family

I was attempting to read all of the other posts before posting,but I had to comment that "No" not all gyms are the same. I am going to ask: (Disclaimer: I don't mean all foreign coaches are this way!) Are Sophia's coaches European? I ask only because their take on pain and fear is so different from what we as Americans see pain and fear as.
My older DD's coaches who were European would have probably reacted in the same way as Sophia's coaches. Whether good or bad, as a parent, we all have to decide what is best for our own children. Like the other posters, I could never subject my own to that kind of treatment. I did pull her from their gym.
Leaving a child to vault for a lengthy amount of time in an attempt to get her over the "fear" to me wouldn't accomplish the goal. But If it is a belief that he/she has from their country and it has worked on the children back in their home country, then I can see how it might be an obvious resolution for that same coach. Children from all countries, walks of life, etc. are so different. However, coaches may not have the knowledge of what psychologically works for every child. Are there many coaches out there that do invest in courses dealing with child/adolescent psychology? We are lucky that at DD's new gym the majority of the coaches hold a psychology or education degree. It provides me with that piece of mind with little DD that her psyche will also be nurtured as her talent is developed.

 

[lilgymmie7]

It won't be easy to leave, but in the long run, Sophia will be thankful and so will you. Hopefully you can find her a gym where they treat kids kindly. I always wonder when I see gyms that produce really good gymnasts what the kids had to go through to get there. Not that ALL gyms that have really good quality gymnastics and score very high are like that, but so many ARE. I am happy with our middle of the road gym. Our girls do well, maybe not scoring 37s, but they are happy and their emotional well being is safe. Maybe some of the moms in your area that are on this board can give you suggestions of where to go/where to avoid. I would watch the coaches from any gyms you are checking out closely at States, see how they treat the kids. Watch the non-verbal cues, you can tell a lot from that. Though I guess many coaches hide that side from the general public and save their cruelty for in the gym. Not always though. I quickly eliminated a gym from the list of gyms to check out when I watched a coach get MAD at a girl that messed up at the meet, as if the girl wanted to mess up her routine.

That was exactly what I did when looking for a new gym for DD. I did go to meets that the other gyms I was interested for DD were at. Every meet I went to where her current coaches were at I saw the same thing. Win or loose, fall or hit, her coaches ALL hugged the gymnasts. They at times get more excited than the gymmie does when the kid hits a routine! That to me is really all I was searching for little DD. She is a social butterfly who attaches to everyone around her. I needed to feel that in my absence she would have adults in her life that were just as invested in her well being as I am. I think I hit the jack pot! Sophia is sooo talented! ANY gym would snatch her up! She really needs to be at a gym who is looking to create a total package gymnast. Emotional well being is key to the success of a gymnast. My earlier post was trying to emphasize that some coaches have limited experience in reaching all gymnasts especially younger ones. Some gymnasts who are subjected to that kind of negative treatment might never be effected. But if Sophia's fear is mounting that is your red flag. It doesn't work for her.
Little DD's HC is such a funny person. The goofiness you see in DD's videos from HC is what you see in the gym day in and day out! It really works for DD! Good luck finding a great fit for Sophia. I can just imagine what more we can see from her when she feels 'emotionally' well! Kid is so awesome already!! I can't wait to see that!! Keep us posted!

 

[Panda-girl's Mom]

It is ashame that this is happening so close to states. Personally any coach who is not happy about how amazing your daughter is doing and complaining about a 37 in a meet or your daughters vault of an 8.8 is just nuts IMHO. Good for you saying something to the coach and shame on him for behaving that way towards both you and your daughter, it is not right. I would definitely let the owner know about the situation. If your daughter continues in this sport for a long time you are going to have to develop some trust between the coaches and yourself that they know what is best for your daughter concerning her gymnastics by behaving this way as a parent how could you possible trust them. Move on and maybe some of daughters friends will also consider moving on with you. She will also make new friends. Good luck there are lots of gyms out there.

 

[scanlri]

I have been reading this forum since January, but this is my 1st post. Please excuse any naivete on my part. I am so sad to hear that Sophia is going through this. My little one is a 7 year old L5 competing in the same state, and we LOVE it when we are at the same meet and get to watch Sophia!

We are at a very small gym where the coaches are loving and supportive. I have been asked many times why I don't take my little one to a more "serious" gym. While I have (and still do) considered it, I have always worried about how she might react to different coaching styles. I can't imagine that she would still have a love for the sport if it was not a positive environment.

I sure hope that the next two weeks go by fast and uneventful. We look forward to seeing your little one at states!

 

[cadybearsmommy]

Wow, I was thinking you posted earlier this year that the coaches were being very careful not to push or pressure Sophia, so I am thinking this must be a new problem, or is this a new coach? Either way it is unacceptable. A gymnast should not be punished for being afraid. Sophia is a very talented little girl with a lot of potential, being treated like this could be detrimental to her future in this sport. I would not wait to pull her, I would do it now.

 

[lovofu]

Thanks for all the perspective.....they did not push her by moving her up to level 6 and letting her complete her level 5 year. They have always had high expectations for her and very little positive reinforcement!

 

[MdGymMom01]

Lovofu--if I am understanding you correctly, she has had the same coaches and has been in this environment with "very little positive reinforcement" for a while now, correct? If this is the case, then it looks like this type of environment isn't working too well for her any more. Some kids can handle very little direction and reinforcement because they are just that driven and motivated. But there does come a time (when the skills get harder and you run into fear) when you do need some feedback (especially positive feedback) to get you through the tough times. I agree with the others that this type of yelling, belittling and public humiliation is NOT good in any way. Sophia is a very sweet, polite, hard-working and talented girl that does not deserve this type of treatment.

Sometimes there just comes a time where the current coaching system is no longer working and/or motivating and it is time to move on. I hope you can find a good fit for your family and Sophia soon. Negative coaching environments can be lethal to a gymmie's self esteem and confidence. And sometimes just a few months in a negative environment like that can take years to reverse. Hang in there and the best of luck to both of you. Go with your gut and do what you feel is right for Sophia. Your instincts rarely will steer you wrong.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I just have to add to what others are saying, yes, I would get the heck out of there as well! Sophia has always looked like she is so happy in the gym and having such fun. You definitely do NOT need some coach belittling her and you!! That is not necessary and is definitely harmful to her if she wants to continue in this sport. If I remember correctly, you had been to another gym a few miles down the road before you were at your current gym, right? Is there a chance to go back there? I know they do wonders w/their optional girls... One of them who is on a first year college scholarship is a friend of ours, a very sweet girl w/really great parents. She had actually been at one of the most competitive gyms before getting burned out and going to A. I don't know where you live, but there are really a LOT of good gym choices in the northern Virginia area. My DD is at a very small gym right now w/lots of positive coaching and she has overcome a lot of her fears and mental blocks and has been doing great the past year! Good luck at States and with your decision to stay or go.

PS. I actually recognized Sophia at the L8/9/10 states meet. You both walked right in front of me, but thought I'd freak you out by saying anything to either you or her! My DD and I both thought she was adorable.

 

[lovofu]

Oh I so wish you had said something...how fun to meet a fellow CB parent!!!

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

If we happen to be at some of the same meets next year, I definitely will!!! Don't know yet whether DD will move to L8 or not... she needs those bar skills, but has from now until next November to work on them.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

Not sure where you are located, but we were super impressed with the coach from Dulles. Small team, but he was wonderful with his little bitty Level 4s at our home meet (even when they fell) and we all noticed and were impressed with how great his Level 7s were on bars at the State meet.

That's my DD's coach!!! And he IS wonderful, along with the Owner of the gym!!

 

[mtbmom]

I'm also afraid every gym will be the same...I've heard such stories other places. I never wanted to be a gym hopping family

I felt the same way. My only regret with changing gyms is not having done it sooner. Our new gym has high expectations for the girls but always treats them with respect. Don't leave your daughter in an abusive situation. It will cause damage, I promise you. I'm speaking from experience. My daughter is still getting through the damage from her previous gym. She is doing very well now, but there are still a few things to get through.

 

[flippersmom]

Good luck to you and your DD.

I took my DD out of a gym this year because of too many negatives. Lying and manipulation by owner/coach, telling my daughter her scores were too high and that she did not deserve them, telling her she would never get backhandspring/backhandspring on beam.

I value my daughter more than any medal she could ever win. She did not want to leave at first, but is now so happy. She went from that, to coaches her support and encourage her, and made her cookies after she successfully did her backhandspring/backhandspring at a meet. Even then different in the gymnast themselves is noticeable, they are much happier as a whole.

I hope you find a gym that will give Sophia everything she needs to continue to be successful in and out of the gym!

 

[lovofu]

Thanks everyone.....lots to think about...talked to the HC's wife tonight and she didn't understand what the big deal was with vaulting that much and didn't understand why I was upset. Said I was too close and why should I care and I was too intense! OY VEY.....why should I care???? Because I'm her MOM.

 

[nevertooold]

Thanks everyone.....lots to think about...talked to the HC's wife tonight and she didn't understand what the big deal was with vaulting that much and didn't understand why I was upset. Said I was too close and why should I care and I was too intense! OY VEY.....why should I care???? Because I'm her MOM.

Just curious bc I know your team is super small, is it unusual for the girls to work independently? Is it possible within the context of your small team that your DD coach was trying to help her rather than punish her by having her spend extra time on the one event she struggles with.
I can't know but I'm just wondering. Everything has to be taken in context, and for some small teams a child being sent to work independently is not unusual.

My $0.02 ... Let the momma bear instinct have time to settle and reassess the situation. Unless it's pretty bad, worse than it looks from the outside, you might be best served by staying. I'm not sure where else in the area she is going to get the individual attention and expert coaching she is getting now. Not in a larger group at a bigger gym. She IS getting well trained in the sport, and I just don't know that the grass would be greener anywhere else local.

Just my opinion.

 

[lovofu]

So true and that's why she isn't already gone...Life isn't always easy and you have to learn to deal with all kinds of people. The HC and I just have to come to an understanding that he is who he is and I'm who I am and then go from there...we'll see.

 

[mariposa]

Just curious bc I know your team is super small, is it unusual for the girls to work independently? Is it possible within the context of your small team that your DD coach was trying to help her rather than punish her by having her spend extra time on the one event she struggles with.
I can't know but I'm just wondering. Everything has to be taken in context, and for some small teams a child being sent to work independently is not unusual.

My $0.02 ... Let the momma bear instinct have time to settle and reassess the situation. Unless it's pretty bad, worse than it looks from the outside, you might be best served by staying. I'm not sure where else in the area she is going to get the individual attention and expert coaching she is getting now. Not in a larger group at a bigger gym. She IS getting well trained in the sport, and I just don't know that the grass would be greener anywhere else local.

Just my opinion.

I would agree with you EXCEPT that the mom posted these things... And I don't care how well my kid is being "trained" if their well being isn't being taken into consideration, which considering the things mom has said, it doesn't seem like Sophia's self esteem or emotional health is on the high priority list.

Thanks for all the perspective.....they did not push her by moving her up to level 6 and letting her complete her level 5 year. They have always had high expectations for her and very little positive reinforcement!

All kids need positive reinforcement, especially when expectations are high!

unfortunately I told the coach and as a punishment made her vault for 1.5 hours Monday, 2 hours Tuesday and One Hour on Friday...alone without teammates and with no communication. He also called her out for being afraid in front of the team and refuses to speak to me. So that didn't go so well....my thought too. He told me she needs to grow up.

Bolded the parts that were huge red flags. It seems to me that training ALONE and without communication is not normal, or the mom would not be upset about it. Kids need feedback. They need to be corrected. And to "call her out for being afraid"? Sounds like brilliant coaching to me.

I agree...he told her she did bad last week with a 37.5 and for her it was low but holy cow...she has said she wishes SHE had broke her foot so she didn't have to vault.....not sure what to do except hugs hugs and more hugs

If a 37AA is "bad" then most kids suck at this sport. I am sure my DD (or her coach) would love for her to do so "bad". She didn't do bad, she did amazing and struggled with an event. Welcome to gymnastics, coach. Sophia isn't a robot. She will have off days! And if Sophia wishes her foot was broken so she didn't have to vault?? Hello? That is not the sign of a happy gymnast.

she can't really say except that she's afraid to get yelled at because she's not good at vault...so I think the fear is fear of punishment if that makes sense.

More great coaching... . I would rather my kid get a 36AA with positive coaching than an 38AA with fear and intimidation ANY DAY of the week. And there are gyms/coaches out there that have gymnasts scoring those 38s, but are still positive and encouraging and don't bully the girls.

Little kids shouldn't be afraid to not do well because they are afraid to get in trouble. Especially when they are supposed to be having FUN. Again, I don't care how technically good coaching is at a gym, if they can't teach a child in a positive, encouraging way, then they are worthless.

Bullies use fear and intimidation to get others to do what they want and that is how I see those kinds of coaches. They are just big bullies and until parents stand up to them and make them realize that they aren't going to let their kids be treated that way (and pay them for it, too!), they will just keeping being bullies.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

Great post Mariposa. I think you've summed up how most of us were feeling about Sophia's coaching!! Yes, the coaches may be super talented, but what difference does it make if the child is being beaten down emotionally and ends up quitting the sport??

 

[mpkbt]

Wow. I just read this thread and then watched her video. The female coach was my youngest dd coach when she was 2. She loved her! We watched Catalina fly through the levels and I always wondered what happened to her. This was about 8 years ago and we moved acrossed the country about a year after they came to the gym and to the US. Carlos coached the 4-6 girls and they all LOVED him.....My oldest dd was with a different coach at the time and didn't have him. I had heard that they owned a gym? Sorry this is happening to your dd. It makes it really hard to want to keep them in the sport. When we knew them, neither spoke english very well....has that changed?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

where have i been...did i read that right? vaulted for 1 1/2 hours on one night and 2 hours the next night??

okay then, no more questions on how a gymnast gets severs...or achilles tendonitis...or plantar fasciitis...or patellar tendonitis...or shin splints...or lumbar pain...or wrist tendonitis...or positive ulnar variance (puv)...or osteochondritis desecans (ocd) of the knees or elbows...or...oh...never mind. i've typed too long. my fingers and brain now need proper nourishment and recovery so i don't end up with carpal tunnel syndrome...