Parents Level 4 question

[Stephanie Bishop]

Hi All,

My daughter is Level 4 (just turned 9) and just finished up her meet season with a 35.5 at States. Her coach just informed us she'd like to move her over from the JO program to Prep Op. The reason being she states "she's not focused enough and she's not sure she has the dedication it takes". Daughter is devastated at the thought of leaving her team who are all now starting level 5 conditioning. I suggested repeating Level 4 but they thought she'd be bored? Daughter has all the skills and does not struggle with the movements at all, just her focus. I believe the coach may have to ask her multiple times to point toes/straight legs etc.) I'm hesitant to make such a big move at such a young age. Should we insist that she be given a bit more time? Thanks in advance!!

 

[l.c.o]

I guess I would say that you need to consider your DD's long-term goals. Perhaps have a chat with her - about needing to focus more, etc.

I don't know that I think a 35.5 for a first-year level 4 who just turned 9 is a "bad" score. That was probably about average for my DD her first season. Going off your DD's age, level, and score alone, I'd be hesitant to agree that she should move to Xcel (old prep op). Are you at a particularly competitive gym with a super-selective JO program? If that's the case, you may want to at least consider other local gym options and get a second opinion.

Now, playing devil's advocate, I obviously don't see your DD practice or compete; is she distracting other kids? Horsing around unsafely? Ignoring corrections? Truly ignoring coaches? Blowing off conditioning? I mean, it's possible that perhaps moving to Xcel might be in her best interest if she isn't in it 100%... With level 5+, hours and conditioning generally really ramp up, and skills take longer to master. It can lead to additional boredom/frustration. They really need to love it to get some of these scary skills... and a true lack of focus can lead to them being more easily hurt as skills get more difficult.

Again, playing devil's advocate here - only you and your DD know how practices are going, how much drive she has, and what the eventual goals are. Dream of L10 and/or college gym? Definitely stay JO if you can. Just want to do flippy things and burn off energy? Maybe move to Xcel. No shame in either choice - but definitely consider the situation from all sides.

FWIW, if she's got all her L4 skills pretty solid, she genuinely may be bored if she can't work on skills above L4 at practice. That wasn't necessarily just a line from coach. So, something else to consider. Some kids are just fine with repeating and not working higher skills.

 

[txgymfan]

Have a serious talk with her. If she really wants to stay with JO set up a meeting with both of you and the coach and see if she can stay on, possibly on a trial basis. In the meantime look at other gyms in the area without discussing it with her.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Have a serious talk with her. If she really wants to stay with JO set up a meeting with both of you and the coach and see if she can stay on, possibly on a trial basis. In the meantime look at other gyms in the area without discussing it with her.

Yep

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Nothing wrong with a 35.5 Level 4 9 year old. No way should she go to prep op. If lack of focus means she is not pointing toes/straightening legs, these are things that improve with age and maturity. Shame on the gym if that is their reason for giving up on her. If she is skipping turns being disruptive, cheating on conditioning etc. then she needs talking to and a chance to buckle under. Clear expectations and a time line for improvement. if the gym isn't willing to do that, then I would find another gym.. Once you get out of JO, it could be hard to get back in. Her score would have placed her 6th out of 43 in the state in our Jr 9 division at state this year. Do what you can to keep her in JO.

 

[2gymkids]

Wow, I have a new Level 4 who is struggling to hit 30 but I can't imagine that they'll suggest Excel at the end of the season....she will likely repeat 4, though. I would sit down and talk with her to see what she wants to do and then talk to the coach and see if you can tease out what's going on. If she wants to go to Excel, then that's fine, but there is nothing wrong with a 35 for a 9 year old L4!

 

[profmom]

I agree that you need to talk with the coaches more to see what the issue is. Unless you're in a really competitive environment and at a really competitive gym, scoring in the 35s at states is not an indication of a failure to progress. This may be hard to hear, but I think you need to ask them whether there are specific concerns about attitude or behavior during practice, and whether these things might be remediable. Something's a little off about this story -- it's hard to imagine most coaches wanting to boot a decently performing compulsory kid out of JO because of some minor issues with focus during practice. (If that were the case, I don't think boys' gymnastics would exist.)

 

[gymbeam]

First, hugs. To have even reached level 4 at a super competitive gym is a huge accomplishment and, no doubt, also required a lot of investment on your part. So I know you are feeling a ping of hurt at thinking her path may be changing from what you had envisioned. It's 100% natural.

At a very selective gym such as yours, you will see girls referred to the Xcel program who would actually be great JO candidates at other respectable gyms. It is a tough to pill to swallow sometimes but when a gym has the numbers of girls coming through that allow them to be so selective, they sometimes do end up letting some really good girls go to be able to focus their time on the highest achievers. Programs like these have very specific timelines so when they say your child isn't working within their program it doesn't mean she wouldn't work wonderfully within someone else's. Of course they aren't going to tell you try another JO program though, they are going to want you to stay at their business so they refer to their Xcel team... Can't blame them for that, they are running a business, but just don't expect them to tell you she would do great somewhere else with different JO timelines and requirements.

At this junction, you have a few options. One would be to try and negotiate her staying on as a repeating level 4 and see how that goes. Another would be to celebrate moving to Xcel so that you don't end up with a child in the gym 6 days a week for 24+ hours in the next 2-3 years. (I say that kind of jokingly, but there is some truth to it- JO at your gym will turn into a huge commitment real fast.) Lastly, you could go ahead and shop around for other gyms in the area who will keep her in JO but are more willing to work with her where she's at.

You stated one of your concerns was your daughter being moved from her circle of friends. As a mom of a child a few years ahead of yours, I'd like to let you know it is coming no matter what. After level 4, it becomes much more of an individualized path and the girls tend to no longer move as a herd any more. Even when they are moving up levels together, their training groups are going to get split up between fast trackers, high hours, low hours, day , night, etc. Not to mention, that only about 25% will probably even still be there a year or two from now. In other words, do not let the friend thing weigh too much into your decision because her group is on the verge of being divided up soon anyway and she will have to adjust to new training buddies from here on out. In fact, I imagine you're not the only parent from her level 4 team who was given the same message about their child's options moving forward.

Good luck mama! It will all work out. It may be confusing and difficult right now, but it will all work out!

 

[AgingHippie]

You stated one of your concerns was your daughter being moved from her circle of friends. As a mom of a child a few years ahead of yours, I'd like to let you know it is coming no matter what. After level 4, it becomes much more of an individualized path and the girls tend to no longer move as a herd any more. Even when they are moving up levels together, their training groups are going to get split up between fast trackers, high hours, low hours, day , night, etc. Not to mention, that only about 25% will probably even still be there a year or two from now. In other words, do not let the friend thing weigh too much into your decision because her group is on the verge of being divided up soon anyway and she will have to adjust to new training buddies from here on out. In fact, I imagine you're not the only parent from her level 4 team who was given the same message about their child's options moving forward.

If there was a love button I would hit it. This is so true.

 

[Stephanie Bishop]

Thanks everyone - you've been SO helpful!

 

[GymDad9.9]

First, hugs. To have even reached level 4 at a super competitive gym is a huge accomplishment and, no doubt, also required a lot of investment on your part. So I know you are feeling a ping of hurt at thinking her path may be changing from what you had envisioned. It's 100% natural.

At a very selective gym such as yours, you will see girls referred to the Xcel program who would actually be great JO candidates at other respectable gyms. It is a tough to pill to swallow sometimes but when a gym has the numbers of girls coming through that allow them to be so selective, they sometimes do end up letting some really good girls go to be able to focus their time on the highest achievers. Programs like these have very specific timelines so when they say your child isn't working within their program it doesn't mean she wouldn't work wonderfully within someone else's. Of course they aren't going to tell you try another JO program though, they are going to want you to stay at their business so they refer to their Xcel team... Can't blame them for that, they are running a business, but just don't expect them to tell you she would do great somewhere else with different JO timelines and requirements.

At this junction, you have a few options. One would be to try and negotiate her staying on as a repeating level 4 and see how that goes. Another would be to celebrate moving to Xcel so that you don't end up with a child in the gym 6 days a week for 24+ hours in the next 2-3 years. (I say that kind of jokingly, but there is some truth to it- JO at your gym will turn into a huge commitment real fast.) Lastly, you could go ahead and shop around for other gyms in the area who will keep her in JO but are more willing to work with her where she's at.

You stated one of your concerns was your daughter being moved from her circle of friends. As a mom of a child a few years ahead of yours, I'd like to let you know it is coming no matter what. After level 4, it becomes much more of an individualized path and the girls tend to no longer move as a herd any more. Even when they are moving up levels together, their training groups are going to get split up between fast trackers, high hours, low hours, day , night, etc. Not to mention, that only about 25% will probably even still be there a year or two from now. In other words, do not let the friend thing weigh too much into your decision because her group is on the verge of being divided up soon anyway and she will have to adjust to new training buddies from here on out. In fact, I imagine you're not the only parent from her level 4 team who was given the same message about their child's options moving forward.

Good luck mama! It will all work out. It may be confusing and difficult right now, but it will all work out!

That was an excellent overview @gymbeam.

 

[GymDad9.9]

First, hugs. To have even reached level 4 at a super competitive gym is a huge accomplishment and, no doubt, also required a lot of investment on your part. So I know you are feeling a ping of hurt at thinking her path may be changing from what you had envisioned. It's 100% natural.

At a very selective gym such as yours, you will see girls referred to the Xcel program who would actually be great JO candidates at other respectable gyms. It is a tough to pill to swallow sometimes but when a gym has the numbers of girls coming through that allow them to be so selective, they sometimes do end up letting some really good girls go to be able to focus their time on the highest achievers. Programs like these have very specific timelines so when they say your child isn't working within their program it doesn't mean she wouldn't work wonderfully within someone else's. Of course they aren't going to tell you try another JO program though, they are going to want you to stay at their business so they refer to their Xcel team... Can't blame them for that, they are running a business, but just don't expect them to tell you she would do great somewhere else with different JO timelines and requirements.

At this junction, you have a few options. One would be to try and negotiate her staying on as a repeating level 4 and see how that goes. Another would be to celebrate moving to Xcel so that you don't end up with a child in the gym 6 days a week for 24+ hours in the next 2-3 years. (I say that kind of jokingly, but there is some truth to it- JO at your gym will turn into a huge commitment real fast.) Lastly, you could go ahead and shop around for other gyms in the area who will keep her in JO but are more willing to work with her where she's at.

You stated one of your concerns was your daughter being moved from her circle of friends. As a mom of a child a few years ahead of yours, I'd like to let you know it is coming no matter what. After level 4, it becomes much more of an individualized path and the girls tend to no longer move as a herd any more. Even when they are moving up levels together, their training groups are going to get split up between fast trackers, high hours, low hours, day , night, etc. Not to mention, that only about 25% will probably even still be there a year or two from now. In other words, do not let the friend thing weigh too much into your decision because her group is on the verge of being divided up soon anyway and she will have to adjust to new training buddies from here on out. In fact, I imagine you're not the only parent from her level 4 team who was given the same message about their child's options moving forward.

Good luck mama! It will all work out. It may be confusing and difficult right now, but it will all work out!

That was an excellent overview @gymbeam. So good I had to reply twice.

 

[gymbeam]

Why thank you! Times 2!

 

[GymDad9.9]

Why thank you! Times 2!

You're welcome
You're welcome

 

[e'smum]

35.5 at states is a pretty good score here in our region. however, i know in other regions 36 and 37 and even 38's are what is considered good scores. i guess it all depends on how she compares to other gymnasts and where she falls in the "pack".
at our gym 35.5 signals to the coach that you are ready to move up to the next level and you will start working on next level skills.

i agree with others, talk to the coaches about why they want to make the switch. and talk to her about what she wants to do. with a 35.5 JO score, she'd transition well to Excel and would score very well in that program. but it's less hours in the gym and it may not be enough for her. good luck!

 

[3rd_time_around]

35.5 is not a bad score. Also, it's compulsories. Many a great optional was a not-spectacular compulsory. I think it's sad that this is what they base her long-term success on. I know my daughter--who was a level 10 for 4 years, went to Easterns and placed 10th AA, was told in 9th grade that she was college ready by a well-respected college coach, and who helped her Lvl 10 team win their first state title with 2 scores counting, and never repeated a level until Lvl 9--only scored 34's in Level 4 and missed most of her level 5 and 6 seasons with an injury. She was a great optional gymnast.

If your gym wants to move her to Xcel, she will probably not have the chance to move back to JO. So you need to talk to her and decide if that's ok with her and you. Xcel is a fun program, and Diamond and Platinum do about level 7/8 skills, but that's as far as it goes. If she wants to stay JO, and with her scores she totally can because that is not a bad score, you will either have to negotiate pretty hard with the gym, or find a new gym who doesn't worry so much about scores but focuses on ability and potential. I know a gym owner who doesn't worry about scores to the extent that they discourage them from gymnastics. They may let them repeat, or move up and scratch the event they are struggling with. But especially compulsories, if they are qualifying to state, they are usually moving up if they have the skills in time for the next season. (And yes, this is at a highly competitive gym).

She's only 9, she has plenty of time, and she could be an amazing optional gymnast! Or if she is ok being an Xcel and just loves the sport, then go with that. There's a lot less pressure with Xcel, and sometimes the time commitment is less. Xcel was designed to be less rigorous and demanding, and that might work for your gymnast and your family.

You have a lot to consider. I hope you can find a solution that works.

 

[Gymmommy71]

That would be a good score for a 9 year old first year L4 around me. Provided next level skills were on track I don't see why such a kid wouldn't stay in JO track in my area - we don't see a lot of 37+'s in compularies around here though, and when those happen those kids usually start skipping levels and aren't on your usual one level per year path if that puts it in perspective.

Only thing I could see is she was having major fear issues w/ L5 skills like the flyaway, tuck or beam walkover - like serious ones that persist for long periods of time. Unless your area is really competitive (maybe it is?), I would be looking at other gyms. Does your daughter know they've said this about her? How does she feel about it all?

 

[gymbeam]

That would be a good score for a 9 year old first year L4 around me. Provided next level skills were on track I don't see why such a kid wouldn't stay in JO track in my area - we don't see a lot of 37+'s in compularies around here though, and when those happen those kids usually start skipping levels and aren't on your usual one level per year path if that puts it in perspective.

Only thing I could see is she was having major fear issues w/ L5 skills like the flyaway, tuck or beam walkover - like serious ones that persist for long periods of time. Unless your area is really competitive (maybe it is?), I would be looking at other gyms. Does your daughter know they've said this about her? How does she feel about it all?

I know the area and the gym and both are very competitive. But, that means there are at least 2 or 3 other really good gyms within about 30 minutes (depending on which direction OP lives from current gym). Other programs around aren't quite as selective or particular about timelines, so at least there are options.

Even with options though, switching is always SO stressful.

PS: OP, if you return to this thread- without calling out specific programs, I'll say that to find another strong program, you'll need to go at least 30 minutes away and no closer. Feel free to PM me if you'd like!