Martha Conference Call

[Empowered]

Per the transcript I read, though she said it wasn't 100% final, Martha says she expects Gabby to compete AA. She also confirmed she will not be competing the Amanar.

Not going to offer an opinion, just sharing the news. Notes from the call are posted on thegymter.net if anyone else is interested.

 

[notthatmom]

Does anyone know why she isn't going to compete the Amanar? And how many gymnasts are allowed to compete AA?

 

[Flyaway]

It kinda bugs me that it's probably pre-determined. I get that it's probably better for team unity if they all know going in, but still. I would like to see the capable gymnasts (Douglas, Raisman and Hernandez) battle it out for the second spot.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Does anyone know why she isn't going to compete the Amanar? And how many gymnasts are allowed to compete AA?

The qualifying round of the competition is qualifying for team, all-around and event finals. Each team has 5 and puts up 4 on each event. There isn't a limit to how many can compete AA in qualifying (except for mathmatically, at least one has to do AA and other 4 gymnasts can do 3 events, or at other end team could have 4 gymnasts all do AA and 5th gymnasts sit).

If Gaby is going to do UB in qualifying(the event she was primarily brought to do and I don't think Marta would have a girl sit in qualifying and then go up in team final), that means there are only two slots left, which means only two of Simone, Aly and Laurie can compete bars. Kocian will of course take one of the slots.

It isn't so much that Gabby is being given an AA spot as it is there are only 4 spots on UB, and she and Madison take two of those.

 

[raenndrops]

The qualifying round of the competition is qualifying for team, all-around and event finals. Each team has 5 and puts up 4 on each event. There isn't a limit to how many can compete AA in qualifying (except for mathmatically, at least one has to do AA and other 4 gymnasts can do 3 events, or at other end team could have 4 gymnasts all do AA and 5th gymnasts sit).

If Gaby is going to do UB in qualifying(the event she was primarily brought to do and I don't think Marta would have a girl sit in qualifying and then go up in team final), that means there are only two slots left, which means only two of Simone, Aly and Laurie can compete bars. Kocian will of course take one of the slots.

It isn't so much that Gabby is being given an AA spot as it is there are only 4 spots on UB, and she and Madison take two of those.

And Simone and Laurie will take the other two bar spots.

 

[wandrewsjr]

The reality is, the best thing for the tam is to have the best gymnasts on each event go on each event, not let the best 3 AA's "battle it out" for the two AA spots.

I think many people forget that Gabby, Aly and Jordon all did AA in qualifying at last O's not just so they could "battle it out" for the 2 spots, but because they were all also in the top 4 on UB on that 5 member team. Maroneys bars were pretty crazy. I think Aly was beating her by a point at that time.

 

[Empowered]

In reality the United States could throw up their 4 weakest routines on all events and still qualify to team finals. The idea that the difference between Aly's bar score (being the lowest) and Gabby's 15.1 would somehow keep the US out of the team final is laughable. The team final is a clean slate, 3 up, 3 count. What happens in the qualifying round has ZERO bearing on the team final.

That being the reality, I feel the US should send up the 3 strongest AA athletes and the bar specialist to maximize medal chances. I do not believe that based on the international strength on uneven bars that Gabby would be a factor in a final. She might qualify in 7th or 8th, but barring massive mistakes she will not medal.

That being said, if you want to make a case for Gabby being stronger in the AA than Aly or Laurie, that's something that could be debated at length up and down till the cows come home. However trying to make it seem like the US MUST have their 4 best bar routines in qualifying is disingenuous at best. It's frankly just not the case.

 

[wandrewsjr]

In reality the United States could throw up their 4 weakest routines on all events and still qualify to team finals. The idea that the difference between Aly's bar score (being the lowest) and Gabby's 15.1 would somehow keep the US out of the team final is laughable. The team final is a clean slate, 3 up, 3 count. What happens in the qualifying round has ZERO bearing on the team final.

That being the reality, I feel the US should send up the 3 strongest AA athletes and the bar specialist to maximize medal chances. I do not believe that based on the international strength on uneven bars that Gabby would be a factor in a final. She might qualify in 7th or 8th, but barring massive mistakes she will not medal.

That being said, if you want to make a case for Gabby being stronger in the AA than Aly or Laurie, that's something that could be debated at length up and down till the cows come home. However trying to make it seem like the US MUST have their 4 best bar routines in qualifying is disingenuous at best. It's frankly just not the case.

Did not mean to come close to implying that the top 4 UB MUST (sheesh...bold, capital and italics?!) do qualifying. If I did, did not mean too. I do think that the 3 who will go in team final should go in qualifying. Do you think Gabby should be used in team final on UB?

 

[wandrewsjr]

I would argue with your assertion that what happens in qualifying doesn't matter in team final. Mathematically, no. Many other facets of what goes into competition on the largest stage in the world, yes.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Gabby has a better chance of meddling on UB than the 3rd best US all-arounder (since she can't even possibly enter the final).

Sorry for the multiple posts in a row, kept hitting post before finished all my thoughts!

 

[Sasha]

I do think that the 3 who will go in team final should go in qualifying.

This seems to be a point that has some different opinions. What are your thoughts on the importance of using the same athlete in both qualifying and team finals?

I am guessing it might feel risky for a team to put an athlete in team finals without 'testing' her in the qualifications perhaps? To give her the experience on that apparatus, in that arena, in front of a live crowd in quals first? Or more to do with the 'message' that it sends about an athlete? Not sure, trying to understand the mindset and what would be 'bad' if they sat Gabby in quals, but used her in finals.

Personally, I have to admit that I would prefer to see both Aly and Laurie compete AA. This is because both of them have a real shot of being the AA Silver Medalist, as well as this would be a very good battle and may the best athlete win (well, win 2nd to Simone, but still...). However, that said, I understand the mathematical reasons for having Gabby do AA. If Gabby does AA, then USA will still (likely) take Gold (Simone) and Silver (Laurie or Aly, whichever does AA), AND there is an outside shot of Gabby medaling on bars. So an extra potential medal for USA count. So I get it. It still makes me sad as I think Aly and Laurie are both so deserving of an AA shot (more than Gabby, score-wise right now), but I get it.

 

[Empowered]

Do I think she's necessary? No. I think the US is by and away so superior that the scores of Kocian, Hernandez and Biles are more than enough. Would I use her to rest Biles? Yes. Would I make Aly or Laurie give up an AA spot to her? 100% no. Do I think it's fair to hold 99% of the athletes to a standard of being 100% at trials while giving one athlete extra time? Absolutely not and I will not apologize for that.

The US will likely hit 16 for 16 in qualifying. This team doesn't miss when it counts. So I would respectfully argue that no matter which 4 bar routines are competed in qualifying, this team will be fine.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

 

[wandrewsjr]

This seems to be a point that has some different opinions. What are your thoughts on the importance of using the same athlete in both qualifying and team finals?

I am guessing it might feel risky for a team to put an athlete in team finals without 'testing' her in the qualifications perhaps? To give her the experience on that apparatus, in that arena, in front of a live crowd in quals first? Or more to do with the 'message' that it sends about an athlete? Not sure, trying to understand the mindset and what would be 'bad' if they sat Gabby in quals, but used her in finals.

Personally, I have to admit that I would prefer to see both Aly and Laurie compete AA. This is because both of them have a real shot of being the AA Silver Medalist, as well as this would be a very good battle and may the best athlete win (well, win 2nd to Simone, but still...). However, that said, I understand the mathematical reasons for having Gabby do AA. If Gabby does AA, then USA will still (likely) take Gold (Simone) and Silver (Laurie or Aly, whichever does AA), AND there is an outside shot of Gabby medaling on bars. So an extra potential medal for USA count. So I get it. It still makes me sad as I think Aly and Laurie are both so deserving of an AA shot (more than Gabby, score-wise right now), but I get it.

Completely understand the sentiment about wanting Aly and Laurie to have a shot. Aly is, personally, my favorite gymnast on the team. I would love to see her have an AA redemption shot, but I understand the reasons Marta may put up a team in qualifying that would not give Aly this opportunity.

As for the team....

Arena experience - yes, the first time an athlete experiences that arena on an event shouldn't be in the 3 up 3 count pressure of the team final. The opportunity to compete on event first in qualifying should be used.

Team confidence - having the 3 athletes that will go in the 3 up 3 count final hit in qualifying can build the teams confidence for finals.

Team is paramount - the primary goal of the US team is to bring home the team gold, having a gymnast who you want to go in team final sit in qualifying undermines this with the team.

Just a couple I can think of off top of my head, wrote out quickly so hope they don't sound silly. Anyone with actual experience in this kind of arena please chime in!

 

[wandrewsjr]

Completely understand the sentiment about wanting Aly and Laurie to have a shot. Aly is, personally, my favorite gymnast on the team. I would love to see her have an AA redemption shot, but I understand the reasons Marta may put up a team in qualifying that would not give Aly this opportunity.

As for the team....

Arena experience - yes, the first time an athlete experiences that arena on an event shouldn't be in the 3 up 3 count pressure of the team final. The opportunity to compete on event first in qualifying should be used.

Team confidence - having the 3 athletes that will go in the 3 up 3 count final hit in qualifying can build the teams confidence for finals.

Team is paramount - the primary goal of the US team is to bring home the team gold, having a gymnast who you want to go in team final sit in qualifying undermines this with the team.

Just a couple I can think of off top of my head, wrote out quickly so hope they don't sound silly. Anyone with actual experience in this kind of arena please chime in!

When I said "anyone with actual experience", I meant unlike me! Read it again and thought it came off the wrong way!

 

[wandrewsjr]

Do I think she's necessary? No. I think the US is by and away so superior that the scores of Kocian, Hernandez and Biles are more than enough. Would I use her to rest Biles? Yes. Would I make Aly or Laurie give up an AA spot to her? 100% no. Do I think it's fair to hold 99% of the athletes to a standard of being 100% at trials while giving one athlete extra time? Absolutely not and I will not apologize for that.

The US will likely hit 16 for 16 in qualifying. This team doesn't miss when it counts. So I would respectfully argue that no matter which 4 bar routines are competed in qualifying, this team will be fine.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

There are definitely many possible opinions, and no right one, on team lineup with a team this deep and talented. But if we are still discussing the "unfairness" of the trials and the team chosen...some one PM me when it's over!

 

[raenndrops]

Do I think she's necessary? No. I think the US is by and away so superior that the scores of Kocian, Hernandez and Biles are more than enough. Would I use her to rest Biles? Yes. Would I make Aly or Laurie give up an AA spot to her? 100% no. Do I think it's fair to hold 99% of the athletes to a standard of being 100% at trials while giving one athlete extra time? Absolutely not and I will not apologize for that.

The US will likely hit 16 for 16 in qualifying. This team doesn't miss when it counts. So I would respectfully argue that no matter which 4 bar routines are competed in qualifying, this team will be fine.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

But Nobody was actually 100% at Trials… AND it was supposed to be a combination of P&Gs and Trials… and the top 5 combined from the 2 meets are the 5 on the team.
If you rest Biles on UB in qualifying, then Biles is out of the Individual AA. Remember: All individual events and individual AA competitors are set in Qualifying. Therefore - Biles needs to compete AA in Qualifying. Kocian and Gabby should both compete Bars (to qualify for Individual Bar Finals). That leaves one left to do Bars in qualifying. Laurie was almost a point ahead of Aly at Trials and over 2 points ahead at P&Gs. That leaves Aly out of Bars qualifying and out of the All Around. Kocian is the weakest vaulter with the lowest D score. Aly has the Amanar. So Kocian is out on vault. That leaves Aly and Kocian out as AA options. Might as well let Gabby try. When she gets beat by Simone and Laurie, hell - at least she had a shot.

 

[Empowered]

Who's resting Biles in qualifying? I'm talking finals hence the 3 names. I'm talking sitting Gabby in qualifying a la Maggie at worlds.

I do agree though that I think she finishes third behind whoever gets the nod making it a moot point.

 

[raenndrops]

Who's resting Biles in qualifying? I'm talking finals hence the 3 names. I'm talking sitting Gabby in qualifying a la Maggie at worlds.

I do agree though that I think she finishes third behind whoever gets the nod making it a moot point.

But still… if you sit Gabby in Qualifying, she is ineligible for Individual Bars Finals. She may not win, but she has a shot.

 

[Empowered]

But still… if you sit Gabby in Qualifying, she is ineligible for Individual Bars Finals. She may not win, but she has a shot.

By that logic so does Laurie with a hit routine. She and Gabby each have a 6.5 start value with a hit routine. I think a lot of people here are assuming Martha is going with the 4 strongest bar workers meaning Simone, Laurie and Gabby are vying for the AA, however there's a better chance Martha goes with reputation and past results and puts Aly in the AA over Laurie.

And this is where I start to take issue. I don't think you get to use the strongest bar workers, most medals argument to put Gabby in the lineup, but then sit Laurie in favor of Aly when Laurie is superior to Aly on bars even on an off day. This is where to quote Daggett "the sport loses fans." We see an argument used to justify one thing for one athlete, then the opposite thing done in favor of a different athlete? Am I making sense here?

 

[gymdog]

In reality the United States could throw up their 4 weakest routines on all events and still qualify to team finals. The idea that the difference between Aly's bar score (being the lowest) and Gabby's 15.1 would somehow keep the US out of the team final is laughable. The team final is a clean slate, 3 up, 3 count. What happens in the qualifying round has ZERO bearing on the team final.

That being the reality, I feel the US should send up the 3 strongest AA athletes and the bar specialist to maximize medal chances. I do not believe that based on the international strength on uneven bars that Gabby would be a factor in a final. She might qualify in 7th or 8th, but barring massive mistakes she will not medal.

That being said, if you want to make a case for Gabby being stronger in the AA than Aly or Laurie, that's something that could be debated at length up and down till the cows come home. However trying to make it seem like the US MUST have their 4 best bar routines in qualifying is disingenuous at best. It's frankly just not the case.

Yes but I'm sure Martha wants to use team qualifying to see how the lineups that they are going to actually use will score with the exact combination of judges they have. So in that sense it is important.