very true and if one decides on online schooling, the parent still needs to be involved and be able to fill in the gaps as they emerge, similar to traditional schooling.
WAG Modified school hours for gym
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As I've mentioned above, we altered DD's school schedule to accommodate gym. Started when she was 7 (one year earlier than most kids at our gym due to her ability), and more again this year when she just turned 9.
But she's not alone. We have schools here for grades 5 and up that cater to kids in sports. Not everyone is able to go to one (including my daughter), but other schools are usually very receptive. It's not just gymnasts leaving - it's swimmers, soccer players, dancers, basketball. It is just how the world works here.
What does DD miss? Well on Fridays it is a double period of gym and art class. She sometimes has art homework as a result. Other days, she's missed drama, music, etc. But not consistently, so she gets what is required. We work with the principal and her teacher and they are very supportive.
My personal choice? I wouldn't homeschool, but that is because it doesn't fit with our life as opposed to me thinking it is a lesser form of learning. Homeschooling also isn't as prevalent here as it sounds it is in the States. DD also loves school from the social aspect, and would balk if I proposed her not going. So modified school schedule it is.
I guess all of this is to say, she's a regular kid, who does regular stuff, but is also a dedicated young gymnast. She's not missing out on stuff because of those choices we've jointly made. I think it is inappropriate to paint everyone with the same brush, and indicate that it is wrong for all young kids carte blanche. What works for her may not work for everyone, but it does work for her, and many of her teammates. Because we make it work. And one day if she decides to quit, she won't have given up much if anything to get to the level she was at.
But she's not alone. We have schools here for grades 5 and up that cater to kids in sports. Not everyone is able to go to one (including my daughter), but other schools are usually very receptive. It's not just gymnasts leaving - it's swimmers, soccer players, dancers, basketball. It is just how the world works here.
What does DD miss? Well on Fridays it is a double period of gym and art class. She sometimes has art homework as a result. Other days, she's missed drama, music, etc. But not consistently, so she gets what is required. We work with the principal and her teacher and they are very supportive.
My personal choice? I wouldn't homeschool, but that is because it doesn't fit with our life as opposed to me thinking it is a lesser form of learning. Homeschooling also isn't as prevalent here as it sounds it is in the States. DD also loves school from the social aspect, and would balk if I proposed her not going. So modified school schedule it is.
I guess all of this is to say, she's a regular kid, who does regular stuff, but is also a dedicated young gymnast. She's not missing out on stuff because of those choices we've jointly made. I think it is inappropriate to paint everyone with the same brush, and indicate that it is wrong for all young kids carte blanche. What works for her may not work for everyone, but it does work for her, and many of her teammates. Because we make it work. And one day if she decides to quit, she won't have given up much if anything to get to the level she was at.
gracyomalley
Proud Parent
There are so many educational choices at the elementary school level, and none of them seriously effect what college a kid goes to - just look at homeschooling stats!
However....it is NEVER correct to assume that the learning will "just happen" - whether a kid be in public, private, modified, on-line, or entirely homeschool....it takes parental involvement, research and time. It is absolutely true that low level elementary learning can take as little as 2-3 hours a day....but it still needs to be quality....That's where some of the kids who do "gym-school" programs fall behind....
I would never recommend a parent to choose to homeschool a 7 year old just for a sport...but I do think that if family life is better and a kid happier with a modified schedule and the school will work with them - go for it! See....that's a modified schedule for the kids overall happiness, not just for gymnastics...
Over here our schools are very flexible - with part-time, full time on line, homeschool and take one or 2 classes, etc....most public school kids get PE exemptions. Many middle school and up kids do half day, homeschool/on-line (through the public school - approved, accredited classes with credits) for a couple of classes. Its the private schools that are more difficult to work with!
We homeschool because from pre-school the kids didn't "fit the mold". Now with 2 in middle school it has meant that all three are accomplished violinists, one at advanced adult level, and all three are gymnasts, (L5-L8). All three score in the top precentiles on standardized tests (except in spelling for the severely dyslexic one). All three have multiple friends, are active in church, spend time with family, do chores on the farm,, etc. When DD need privates she can do them when other kids are at school. They do, however , school year round, and either myself or my parents have to be available to them to make sure they are really learning - we also "hire out" certain subjects to either the local public school system or other resources.
All that is to say, its not a light decision to make, but also not one that doesn't work well for many families.
Morning workouts would be quite developmentally appropriate for younger kids, and a modified school schedule so they can spend more time with gym friends and with family and not be so tired - a win-win situation. Socialization at school is extremely over-rated!!! But don't do it to make an Olympian - do it if it fits your family and would allow, if your child wants it down the road, for their path to lead where ever it will....
However....it is NEVER correct to assume that the learning will "just happen" - whether a kid be in public, private, modified, on-line, or entirely homeschool....it takes parental involvement, research and time. It is absolutely true that low level elementary learning can take as little as 2-3 hours a day....but it still needs to be quality....That's where some of the kids who do "gym-school" programs fall behind....
I would never recommend a parent to choose to homeschool a 7 year old just for a sport...but I do think that if family life is better and a kid happier with a modified schedule and the school will work with them - go for it! See....that's a modified schedule for the kids overall happiness, not just for gymnastics...
Over here our schools are very flexible - with part-time, full time on line, homeschool and take one or 2 classes, etc....most public school kids get PE exemptions. Many middle school and up kids do half day, homeschool/on-line (through the public school - approved, accredited classes with credits) for a couple of classes. Its the private schools that are more difficult to work with!
We homeschool because from pre-school the kids didn't "fit the mold". Now with 2 in middle school it has meant that all three are accomplished violinists, one at advanced adult level, and all three are gymnasts, (L5-L8). All three score in the top precentiles on standardized tests (except in spelling for the severely dyslexic one). All three have multiple friends, are active in church, spend time with family, do chores on the farm,, etc. When DD need privates she can do them when other kids are at school. They do, however , school year round, and either myself or my parents have to be available to them to make sure they are really learning - we also "hire out" certain subjects to either the local public school system or other resources.
All that is to say, its not a light decision to make, but also not one that doesn't work well for many families.
Morning workouts would be quite developmentally appropriate for younger kids, and a modified school schedule so they can spend more time with gym friends and with family and not be so tired - a win-win situation. Socialization at school is extremely over-rated!!! But don't do it to make an Olympian - do it if it fits your family and would allow, if your child wants it down the road, for their path to lead where ever it will....
. Correction - learning will ALWAYS happen. It just may not be what the parent/government deems relevant..
Dd was homeschooled for a while. She is glad to be back in pub school. At age 13 friends other than at the gym matter. School dances matter. And yes, boys matter too. Her school does allow her early release. But it's not publicized. And we don't abuse it. She is hoping to go elite. Basically I want her to be happy and healthy. If elite is important to her I support it. The road from age 7 to 13 has been an eye opener for us in this sport. Love the sport but it is brutal and many, many of girls who at level 4 thought they were "lifers" have already gone. Most of her friends from level 4 have left the sport. It is hard to know what those years will hold. She has had 3 broken bones but God has blessed her with no permanent injuries.
I have noticed everyone warns of burn out. I have to say not doing gymnastics is not the end of the world. I believe with my daughters can do attitude and work ethic she would be successful at anything she takes on. It might sting a little to actually not be watching her do gym. She has natural talent which is a plus to go along with hard work and love of the sport. My son on the other hand is not a naturally talented baseball player but works very hard and loves to play. My oldest daughter finds no interests in any sport, but she is 10 and reads like they are going to burn all the books tomorrow, it's what she loves to do. They may all change several times before college and that's ok, but I know whatever they do they will give it their best shot.
Also if homeschool or alternative schooling doesn't work for any child. You can easily go back to what works and catch up to where they need to be.
Also if homeschool or alternative schooling doesn't work for any child. You can easily go back to what works and catch up to where they need to be.
COz
Proud Parent
We're about to begin homeschooling for reasons unrelated to gymnastics.
Homeschooling is not an irrevocable decision Particularly at elementary level!
We're keeping this firmly in mind.
Homeschooling is not an irrevocable decision
Particularly at elementary level!Midwestmommy
Proud Parent
If a parent makes an academic choice for a few years that does not work for a child, and the parent feels he child can "easily go back to what works and catch up to where they need to be...."..... is the bar for academics being set a little low? I think a very strong (however you get it) early educational foundation of the basics is critical to success as kids get older and subject matter gets more complex. I think education should be a young child's (elementary age) first priority. My daughter spends a lot of time in the gym, but if her academics would start to slip, I would ask her to cut back gym hours.
I think there are a lot owners of fantastic gyms, including some with girls on the national team, who would agree. We don't need the old model from some other countries from years back (maybe now still) that don't care about kids who are "collateral damage" but only care about churning out a champion. In the U.S. we at least pretend we care about each and every child, and should be careful not to ever get on board with a "system" that creates tons of broken little bodies and sacrificed educations so that a gym owner with an extreme attitude can make money or even get that one in a million elite..... Such collateral damage is actually supposedly not acceptable in the U.S. I think almost all U.S. gym owners would totally agree, but there are a few cropping up (perhaps some of them from other countries) who are selling some pretty lofty dreams at perhaps a great price, parents be careful.... There are many thousands of 24 year olds making over $60,000 in engineering, there are probably less than 20 in gymnastics....
A couple of my daughter's friends are homeschooled and their parents do a fabulous job (and both have a stay at home parent to do it). They are not homeschooling because of gymnastics though, both started before their kids set foot in a gym... I think schools should try to work with kids who are actual elites to do some modified scheduling, some online classes etc. In fact there are some kids I know very well who do this with success....however, all of them are 7th graders are older. And homeschooling may be the right choice for some high level gymnasts who are older, but gyms that require it for large numbers of gymnasts--just my humble opinion, but I think their motivations are their own business model not the kids.
Requiring homeschooling to "get the advantage" isn't unique to gymnastics, it's pretty controversial in sports where it crops up. In Minnesota one "online" hockey school was even so bold as to try to enter the state tournament as a high school, despite breaking almost every rule in the High School League about off season training, ice time, eligiblity requirements. In that state, girls high school hockey is a feeder for Division 1 and the top girls play high school hockey through their senior year of high school at their school (unlike boys hockey or gymnastics). Everyone in the hockey community was aware that the "school" part was kind of a joke. That school was forced to withdraw from the tournament because of the eligibility rule-breaking, and their whole season was erased off the office record books. Prime example of parents who drank a little too much of the Kool Aid and the kids are the ones who paid the price.
I think there are a lot owners of fantastic gyms, including some with girls on the national team, who would agree. We don't need the old model from some other countries from years back (maybe now still) that don't care about kids who are "collateral damage" but only care about churning out a champion. In the U.S. we at least pretend we care about each and every child, and should be careful not to ever get on board with a "system" that creates tons of broken little bodies and sacrificed educations so that a gym owner with an extreme attitude can make money or even get that one in a million elite..... Such collateral damage is actually supposedly not acceptable in the U.S. I think almost all U.S. gym owners would totally agree, but there are a few cropping up (perhaps some of them from other countries) who are selling some pretty lofty dreams at perhaps a great price, parents be careful.... There are many thousands of 24 year olds making over $60,000 in engineering, there are probably less than 20 in gymnastics....
A couple of my daughter's friends are homeschooled and their parents do a fabulous job (and both have a stay at home parent to do it). They are not homeschooling because of gymnastics though, both started before their kids set foot in a gym... I think schools should try to work with kids who are actual elites to do some modified scheduling, some online classes etc. In fact there are some kids I know very well who do this with success....however, all of them are 7th graders are older. And homeschooling may be the right choice for some high level gymnasts who are older, but gyms that require it for large numbers of gymnasts--just my humble opinion, but I think their motivations are their own business model not the kids.
Requiring homeschooling to "get the advantage" isn't unique to gymnastics, it's pretty controversial in sports where it crops up. In Minnesota one "online" hockey school was even so bold as to try to enter the state tournament as a high school, despite breaking almost every rule in the High School League about off season training, ice time, eligiblity requirements. In that state, girls high school hockey is a feeder for Division 1 and the top girls play high school hockey through their senior year of high school at their school (unlike boys hockey or gymnastics). Everyone in the hockey community was aware that the "school" part was kind of a joke. That school was forced to withdraw from the tournament because of the eligibility rule-breaking, and their whole season was erased off the office record books. Prime example of parents who drank a little too much of the Kool Aid and the kids are the ones who paid the price.
Gyms generally make most of their money from recreational classes. Early years of education are important. If your child struggles with school already at 8 then do whatever's best to help them succeed. Being "caught up" if one attempt at alternative education is not impossible or life destroying. No one is setting the bar low if they are any type of student athlete, gymnastics or any other sport. They are raising the bar if anything. There are no set in stone rules for success in life. My wife's uncle barely graduated high school and is a self made millionaire. If he wrote you a letter you would think a 5 year old wrote it. While my wife's sister has an IQ of 154 has a degree in biology with a minor in chemistry. She could blow you away with how smart she is, but has no drive to do anything. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. Student athlete's are some of the most successful people in the country. I applaud any kid who takes on the challenge of a demanding sport while keeping their academics in order, regardless of how they do it.
Midwestmommy
Proud Parent
While I agree some folks can barely graduate high school and become wildly successful, it's statistically not very likely for most kids. I agree that gyms generally make money from recreational classes, that is part of what I mean by the business model--if they can get the team kids in for more hours while other kids are not available, then there is more gym space at night for recreational classes. I too am a huge advocate of athletics--and there are some elite athletes very near and dear to my heart...if I wasn't my daughter wouldn't be a gymnast. My child doesn't struggle at all (it's the opposite), but I don't want her to "coast" academically. Because she is smart enough to do so if allowed .. I think time spent on education (just like on training) is very important, and you can't just "catch up" to where they "need to be" unless you lower the standard. Same as gymnastics training, there just aren't very many "shortcuts." I'm not saying you are suggested shortcuts, and I didn't mean to offend you..... I just was giving my opinion on "Buyer Beware" as it pertains to what some people are selling very young athletes.....
There are plenty of amazing athletes who didn't focus on the student part who are NOT the most successful people in the country, some of them really crash and burn (not too many gymnasts, but I could list dozens of male athletes in different sports)... many of them who didn't even get a college degree out of the deal.
There are plenty of amazing athletes who didn't focus on the student part who are NOT the most successful people in the country, some of them really crash and burn (not too many gymnasts, but I could list dozens of male athletes in different sports)... many of them who didn't even get a college degree out of the deal.
I think it was part of another thread like this, not a separate thread about NCAA. It is definitely harder to navigate the NCAA maze of requirements when you are homeschooling or using a virtual school but not impossible. They have articles on their site specifically for homeschoolers.
2gymnastand1soccerplayer
Proud Parent
Well I just got back from picking dd up from gym, and I had the formal sit down meeting with her coach. He told me his long term plan for her and how he wants it to work out. I took in all of you comments into consideration and told him what information I have collected on this topic and together we came up with the idea of deferring modified schedule for another year and reevaluate where we're at in a year from now. We have also decided next year we're not going to do tops next year, we're going to drop one of the weeknight classes and put it on Sunday instead, so she will have 2 weeknight classes ( most likely Monday and Wednesday) and 2 weekend classes ( Saturday and Sunday) we mostly decided to wait a year because then she will be 8 turning 9 the school year it happens. Thanks you fur all of your comments it really helped
http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/alternative-schooling-and-issues-with-colleges.41297/
Sounds like you are talking about the one I had started.
raenndrops
Coach
That is why you make sure the student goes back to a "regular" school for senior year... even if they only go for 1/2 a day and take 1-2 classes... then the online credits are converted to regular credits and the colleges will accept them, lol.
My dd leaves school 45 minutes early each day. She is in 5 th grade and her school is very accomodating. Her gym only has a homeschool schedule where they go to gym from 830-1130 and school 12-2:45 and gym from 3-6. Or a modified schedule from 2-730.. We only have about 10 optionals that are very young either level 8(5 th grade) or 10(8 th grade)..it is split 50/50 actually she is the only level 8 that does not homeschool. It works great for us but... She gets on the bus for school at 7:10 and heads roght to gym at 1:45 and gets home at 7:45 to start homework etc... She is fine with the crazy schedule, and is very happy that she gets to do school and gym. Both ways work well for the gymnasts...
My DD (just turned 10 March 20th) is competing L7 in January and she is homeschooled. She does not do morning practices--she still works out with the same training group she had when she was in school. After discussing this with her and with HC, we (all 3 of us) decided the best option for her was to homeschool and remain with her practice group. I don't know if the coach is fast-tracking her or not--she is the youngest on her team--but she wasn't getting out of school until 4 and had to be at the gym at 5. School lunch came at noon and she had nothing to eat until I picked her up at 4. Thus, the basis for our choice wasn't the fast-tracking, but the time crunch in the evening. Now that she eats dinner around 4 and goes to gym at 5, her skills have skyrocketed, her attitude is better (she's not doing all that physical conditioning on an empty belly), and she is A LOT happier. I know this is not the same situation as yours, but my advice to you is do what you believe is best for your daughter. She is quite young and my concern would be that she would peak to soon and then get bored or burnt out. But only you can make that decision...(BTW, in TX, schools will allow for off-campus PE. We have a couple of middle and high school girls who take advantage of this and leave one class period earlier than their peers. This only applies to middle and high-schoolers, so DD does not have this option. Check to see if you have something similar--the school will know).
Wooooo. I was homeschooled half of 2nd grade through 12th grade (pulled out because of having cancer and my mom is a teacher and decided why doesn't she just teach her own kids, so nothing to do with gymnastics) but online schooling is a big time commitment. I did only one online school class, spanish, it took more time than all my other classes (including math which usually took a bit) online schooling is more flexible not necessarily faster but what you described in fast tracking to get through 6 years in 3 years including highschool where classes get tougher seems very very difficult and unrealistic. Especially with gymnastics on top of it.
This is if you were being serious and not just expressing the dreams of a 12 year old!
If that's the case then let her keep on dreaming!
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DKA, sounds like you have one of the best school solutions I have seen. With a public school that gets out at 2.30 and your dd only missing 45 a day, she gets an almost full school day and gets home at a reasonable (for gymnasts) hour. Does she have gym on Sat or Sun too? I think you won the schedule lottery.
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