Negative Coaching - need advice or support

[flowermom]

My daughter is a Level 9 gymnast and recently switched to a nationally known gym. One of her coaches treats the girls with distrust, sarcasm, and verbal disparagement. Many of the girls in her group 'cheat' on the conditioning (which is very intense). Before my daughter started at this gym, she had proved herself as quite talented (winning most meets she participated in), but had not had the same intense conditioning/strength regimen (and had not participated in TOPS), so had a long way to go in this area. However, she is extremely coachable and driven to succeed and respectful of her coaches.

So...one of the coaches at our new gym constantly tells the girls they aren't trying (even when they are) and disparages them for wasting her time. The biggest issue I have is that this coach doesn't trust her gymnasts (and, granted, maybe she shouldn't trust all of them). But my daughter and some of her team mates are working at 95-100% at all times. My girl doesn't cheat during conditioning by doing less sets, etc., which many of the girls do, which leads her to be slower in finishing sets of conditioning. Therefore, the coach disparages her for being slow and not trying, when she is following the coach's orders exactly and giving it her all. The coach also accuses her of cheating on conditioning, when my girl doesn't cheat. "You'll never make it in high level gymnastics if you cheat like this." The coach assumes everyone is trying to get out of sets, but can't have her eyes on everyone at all times. So she just assumes they have cheated and makes them do more sets. As an athlete who always wants to please her coaches and show that she's working hard, this has become extremely disheartening to my gymnast. Sometimes she cries because she's so frustrated with the criticism for things she has been falsely accused of. Also, she had an injury, recently, and her ortho prescribed splinting and rest for her hand, which meant she had to miss a meet. I communicated with the coaches and got no response. After the meet, this coach told my girl that splinting was 'overkill' and she should have kept training and then rolled her eyes.

I have kept my mouth closed, but, tonight, my daughter was in tears for the whole 45 minutes home. She told me she feels like she causes so many problems by being emotional at gymnastics and thinks she should apologize to her main coach (who is great). I said I wanted to contact the disparaging coach and talk to her about it and my daughter said "OH, No, don't do that...it will only make it worse!"

My feeling is that this is not healthy. It reminds me of a family in which the child has to try to be perfect to avoid the wrath of the parents, but gets the criticized anyway, so just starts trying anything to avoid making
waves and the anger that is not appropriate. "I must have done something wrong." thinks the child. I don't like it. I want my girl to hold on to her passion and drive to succeed at gymnastics and also feel safe and understood and respected for her honesty and commitment and hard work.

Sorry so long. Any thoughts?

 

[flowermom]

Negative coach - I don't think it's right...

My daughter is a Level 9 gymnast and recently switched to a nationally
known gym. One of her coaches treats the girls with distrust, sarcasm,
and verbal disparagement. Many of the girls in her group 'cheat' on the
conditioning (which is very intense). Before my daughter started at
this gym, she had proved herself as quite talented (winning most meets
she participated in), but had not had the same intense
conditioning/strength regimen (and had not participated in TOPS), so had
a long way to go in this area. However, she is extremely coachable and
driven to succeed and respectful of her coaches.

So...one of the coaches at our new gym constantly tells the girls they
aren't trying (even when they are) and disparages them for wasting her
time. The biggest issue I have is that this coach doesn't trust her
gymnasts (and, granted, maybe she shouldn't trust all of them). But my
daughter and some of her team mates are working at 95-100% at all times.
My girl doesn't cheat during conditioning by doing less sets, etc.,
which many of the girls do, which leads her to be slower in finishing
sets of conditioning. Therefore, the coach disparages her for being
slow and not trying, when she is following the coach's orders exactly
and giving it her all. The coach also accuses her of cheating on
conditioning, when my girl doesn't cheat. "You'll never make it in high
level gymnastics if you cheat like this." The coach assumes everyone
is trying to get out of sets, but can't have her eyes on everyone at all
times. So she just assumes they have cheated and makes them do more
sets. As an athlete who always wants to please her coaches and show
that she's working hard, this has become extremely disheartening to my
gymnast. Sometimes she cries because she's so frustrated with the
criticism for things she has been falsely accused of. Also, she had an
injury, recently, and her ortho prescribed splinting and rest for her
hand, which meant she had to miss a meet. I communicated with the
coaches and got no response. After the meet, this coach told my girl
that splinting was 'overkill' and she should have kept training and then
rolled her eyes. Another stab in the heart, given the doctor and I decided she couldn't participate in the meet, not my daughter.

I have kept my mouth closed, but, tonight, my daughter was in tears for
the whole 45 minutes home. She told me she feels like she causes so
many problems by being emotional at gymnastics and thinks she should
apologize to her main coach (who is great) for causing problems. I said I wanted to contact
the disparaging coach and talk to her about it and my daughter said "OH,
No, don't do that...it will only make it worse!"

My feeling is that this is not healthy. It reminds me of a family in
which the child has to try to be perfect to avoid the wrath of the
parents, but gets the criticized anyway, so just starts trying anything
to avoid making waves and avoid the anger (that is not appropriate). "I must have done
something wrong." thinks the child. I don't like it. I want my girl to
hold on to her passion and drive to succeed at gymnastics and also feel
safe and understood and respected for her honesty and commitment and
hard work.

Sorry so long. Any thoughts?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yikes! run........................................................................................................................................

 

[txgymfan]

No child should be treated that way. Find a new gym or to quote Dunno "YIKES!".

It does not matter if they train olympians or stop at rec. Some world famous gymnasts have tolerated being treated like that because they thought it was the only way, IMHO nothing, no placement, no money, nothing is worth making a child feel horrible.

 

[txgymfan]

LOL, Dunno I typed my response before I saw yours. Maybe I have been on this forum for too long.

Sorry for the OT Bog!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and have you all noticed that you never see these kinds of posts under mens gymnastics?

 

[AlwaysCuriousMom]

How old is your DD?

It's different if DD was so young: 8/9/ maybe10... but at a certain point she will have to deal with this situation in life and learn to adjust. At level 9, I'm thinking maybe your DD is 11/12+ yrs. old? Of course, one option would be to find a new gym that suits your DD... but another option would be to teach DD to mentally give this coach "the hand" whenever she opens her mouth. But mother knows her DD best.

Good luck!

 

[flowermom]

Thank you for your thoughts. I made an appointment to speak to the coach. My daughter is 12, BTW, but as she enters adolescence, i don't want her learning the wrong lesson (that she should shut up and take it). I believe people should treat each other with respect, whether they are adults or children. coaches or gymnasts. I want her to respect her coaches, but also feel respected. If she ignores the abuse, she will only grow resentful, and find ways to cope with it. I want her to build a relationshipwith her coaches that is positive and encourages her to strive. Not one than beats her down.

 

[Faith]

If she's not enjoying it, it's destroying her self esteem, and she's in tears over her gym, she'll quit sooner rather than later. SHe's 12, so has what, at least 4/5 years in the sport? Is she really going to last that long in this gym under this coach?

My own experience was something similar- I moved to a "top" gym at 11, but the coaching style was very bullying. I lasted 6 months before quitting completely, feeling I just wasn't good enough, and I started to hate training.

Good for you for not wanting your child in this environment. I think you are completely right and I'd have exactly the same concerns with my DD. Speak to the coaches and see what they say.

 

[bogwoppit]

I think with a 12 year old L9 that I'd just leave. She is so young and so talented and that coach is just an idiot and a bully. It is not worth ruining a 12 year olds self esteem. If your ultimate parenting goal is to raise a strong, brave, confident child, then this coach/gym should not be part of your teaching kit.

It seems there are lots of bully coaches out there, a real shame as it brings so many problems to a sport we all love.

I am truly sorry that your little girl is being bullied in the gym, please do not let it continue, tears do happen in the gym, but this is not okay at all.

 

[Granny Smith]

Talk to the coach, see how it goes. I really doubt that the coach is going to change, but I do think that is the 1st step. After the conversation, if the coach's behavior continues then you will have to make the decision to leave. I would continue to talk to your dd and tell her constantly that this coach's behavior is not acceptable and that is not how you treat people. She needs to know that. I think sometimes kids really don't know better and if we as parents do not tell them right or wrong, then they will assume that behavior is acceptable.

Let your dd know that you HAVE to say something. In all good consciousness, you would not be a good parent if you let this go.

I've had to deal with the same reaction from my dd, but the scenario was different. I just couldn't let it go and I told her that. She didn't want me to say anything, she actually wasn't even the one who told me what happened, but I found out and tough luck chuck if she thought I wasn't going to speak up.

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

that really stinks. in my opinion it needs to be addressed. it is not healthy for your DD. sorry she is going through this.

 

[maryRS]

That does not sound healthy at all. I feel for your daughter. I would address it, but I also think, giving that you said it is a nationally known gym (I'm guessing successful?) they are not going to change their ways. I would probably look to move her out of there, as it seems to be very detrimental to her emotional health and will only get worse. While I'm not at all condoning this type of behavior by the coaches, I think it sucks. Some kids though, are able to handle it better than others. Like I said, it doesn't make it right, but I think if I thought my daughter was not dealing with it well, I would look to move her.

My daughter is a Level 9 gymnast and recently switched to a nationally
known gym. One of her coaches treats the girls with distrust, sarcasm,
and verbal disparagement. Many of the girls in her group 'cheat' on the
conditioning (which is very intense). Before my daughter started at
this gym, she had proved herself as quite talented (winning most meets
she participated in), but had not had the same intense
conditioning/strength regimen (and had not participated in TOPS), so had
a long way to go in this area. However, she is extremely coachable and
driven to succeed and respectful of her coaches.

So...one of the coaches at our new gym constantly tells the girls they
aren't trying (even when they are) and disparages them for wasting her
time. The biggest issue I have is that this coach doesn't trust her
gymnasts (and, granted, maybe she shouldn't trust all of them). But my
daughter and some of her team mates are working at 95-100% at all times.
My girl doesn't cheat during conditioning by doing less sets, etc.,
which many of the girls do, which leads her to be slower in finishing
sets of conditioning. Therefore, the coach disparages her for being
slow and not trying, when she is following the coach's orders exactly
and giving it her all. The coach also accuses her of cheating on
conditioning, when my girl doesn't cheat. "You'll never make it in high
level gymnastics if you cheat like this." The coach assumes everyone
is trying to get out of sets, but can't have her eyes on everyone at all
times. So she just assumes they have cheated and makes them do more
sets. As an athlete who always wants to please her coaches and show
that she's working hard, this has become extremely disheartening to my
gymnast. Sometimes she cries because she's so frustrated with the
criticism for things she has been falsely accused of. Also, she had an
injury, recently, and her ortho prescribed splinting and rest for her
hand, which meant she had to miss a meet. I communicated with the
coaches and got no response. After the meet, this coach told my girl
that splinting was 'overkill' and she should have kept training and then
rolled her eyes. Another stab in the heart, given the doctor and I decided she couldn't participate in the meet, not my daughter.

I have kept my mouth closed, but, tonight, my daughter was in tears for
the whole 45 minutes home. She told me she feels like she causes so
many problems by being emotional at gymnastics and thinks she should
apologize to her main coach (who is great) for causing problems. I said I wanted to contact
the disparaging coach and talk to her about it and my daughter said "OH,
No, don't do that...it will only make it worse!"

My feeling is that this is not healthy. It reminds me of a family in
which the child has to try to be perfect to avoid the wrath of the
parents, but gets the criticized anyway, so just starts trying anything
to avoid making waves and avoid the anger (that is not appropriate). "I must have done
something wrong." thinks the child. I don't like it. I want my girl to
hold on to her passion and drive to succeed at gymnastics and also feel
safe and understood and respected for her honesty and commitment and
hard work.

Sorry so long. Any thoughts?

 

[bogwoppit]

Merged the threads to keep the answers in one place.

 

[JessLookin]

This one brought me out of lurkerdom. Talk to the coach. Escalate to HC and owner if there is no change. If the bullying behavior continues, get out fast. No gymnastics success is worth the damage to your child.

I want my girl to hold on to her passion and drive to succeed at gymnastics and also feel safe and understood and respected for her honesty and commitment and hard work.

My daughter was a happy, successful gymnast at a nationally known gym. When she was a 12-year old L9, the coaching team changed. Her experiences became similar to your daughter's. I spoke with the coaches involved, the HC, kept the owner informed. Each time I did so, the situation improved for a short time, then went back to "normal". After more than a year of this, her passion and self-confidence were gone. She felt that they valued her only as a "motor wonder" (quoting the excellent article from Psychology and Gymnastics in another thread).

She quit gymnastics (changing gyms was not an option). She hasn't found a new passion, and she still struggles with self-esteem, but she is a happier person.

 

[bookworm]

I agree with the posters too...I don't care if she is at a "Nationally known gym", get her out of there because the behavior is not going to change. Talking to HC/owner will be a folly because they will see it as a nuisance and if you don't like their system, tough...you might be fed a line about change but behavior like you describe is ingrained in them and is bullying and in the end, nothing will be different from a coaching perspective..the only difference will be your daughter's self esteem will be in the toilet and she will hate gymnastics ...definitely not worth staying there....

 

[bookworm]

and have you all noticed that you never see these kinds of posts under mens gymnastics?

Funny that you mention that Dunno because I DID notice that...do you think it's because with the boys, they aren't in the really higher levels until college , and therefore older (and big enough) and coaches wouldn't think of saying those things to "men"? I think with girls, they are usually younger when they hit the high levels and usually hitting adolescence and vulnerable to these cutting remarks...interesting observation, Dunno.

 

[kecks]

Boys are just different. When you coach boys (as a woman...) you can do and say things that would destroy a female athlete. boys/men just don't take it that seriously. just look at the way most of them interact with one another. roughhousing all the way. girls are different and in an elite sports environment often much more seriously much earlier. they also do work harder *for* their coach. boys usually don't want to please you. they want to get better, they want to win, they want to show how great they are. the girls often want to work *for* the coach, they want to please. not always, but often. you have to know this when coaching females, especially young ones, and act acordingly. using abusive bullying tactics is much easier when the athlete is trying to please you...

 

[sportzmomov3]

I wouldn't drive 45 minutes one way for my DD to be verbally abused every day, or to witness such behavior.
You obviously know this isn't right. That's your answer.

 

[flowermom]

Thank you all for your wise words and suggestions. After first thinking I wanted this meeting to be a one-on-one, I realized (with the advice of friends and from reading your posts) that if no one else is in attendance, the coach could totally skew the content of the discussion when she shares it with the HC and others and make things more difficult for my daughter. So...I'm going to contact the HC and ask her to come and bring my husband as well. I spent a lot of time writing down everything I would like to say without editing myself. Of course, the content would never be appropriate for discussion. LOL. But, of course, it was just an exercise to help me find the core of the problem. The core is simple...First: Ask her if she thinking our daughter is motivated and working hard. Respond to what she says. If necessary, give her our opinion that daughter is highly motivated and driven and wants to please coaches. Also may mention that all coaches our daughter has worked with say she is one of the most coachable and dedicated gymnasts they have worked with. Then we will explain the situation. Main point will be: Accusing our daughter of lying, cheating on sets, or being lazy is absolutely unacceptable unless you have evidence to support your accusations. As many of you have noted, the coach will probably not change, so all we can do is lay out the boundaries. Telling her she is a bully and psychologically traumatizing the girls she coaches will probably fall on deaf ears. But we can tell her what is acceptable and unacceptable. Tough, respectful coaching that pushes girls beyond what they think they are capable of is fine. Falsely accusing them of cheating and lying are not. And criticizing them for adhering to the limits set by doctors and parents (in the case of an injury) are also off limits. We'll see how it goes. I'll post an update. Thanks again for all your thoughts.