New Rule?

[eandreano1]

hi, I was just recently at a meet ( the R5 cup) and my beam routine was solid, no wobbles or anything! But my score was a 8.475 I asked my coach why and he said that there wasa new rule on beam called feet, which is where everystep with a flat foot on beam means a tenth off!

 

[3rd_time_around]

We were at a pre-season meet, and it's purpose was so the judges could tell the coaches what the gymnasts need to do better--a critique meet. And, our gymnasts looked solid on floor and beam, but got 7's and 8's, even the great ones. We were outraged!!!! Well, one girl lost 13 tenths for "not being on high toe" on beam, and another lost 11 tenths for "not being on high toe" on floor. That is HUGE in scoring! I'm just glad it wasn't one of our expensive big meets, I would have been SO MAD! Still, it was discouraging for the girls, and hard to see those low scores when they looked so solid.

Anyway, practice yesterday was focused on ballet positions, high toe holds and walks, and basically going back to the beginning. Weird, though, I watched videos from another pre-season meet, and the scores were pretty good for some pretty sloppy gymnastics, so I don't think the judges at that meet were looking for the same things as my dd's meet. But to answer your question, yes, I do remember reading something about that on our state's USAG website, but I had no idea it would make such a difference in scoring.

 

[gymcoach34]

I believe there is a flat .10 or .20 deduction (I forget exactly right now) OVERALL (not each time) if the positions that should be on high toe, are not on high toe (pivot turns, etc). I do not think the rule is .10 each time- that is ridiculous! I hope someone in your area lets your technical committee member know that this is how the judges are interpreting this so a clarification can be sent out ASAP. I hope gym panda can look up exactly what this deduction is. Yikes!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yep gymcoach, that looks/sounds right. ^^^

 

[gympanda]

Goodness...when I hear things like someone getting 13 TENTHS taken off for not being on toe it makes me nuts!!!

There is a new deduction this year on BB & FX for Turn Value Parts not performed in high relevé each ↑.10. Meaning that any turn that receives a VALUE PART has an opportunity for a .1 deduction if not on high releve. That does NOT include pivot turns, as pivot turns are not a VALUE PART (I'm talking about L7 and up, not Prep Op.)

There are a couple of "overall" deductions that can be taken at the end of routine that might have been lumped into that number, but maybe weren't communicated that clearly.

Insufficient dynamics ↑.20
Insuff. variation in rhythm/tempo throughout ↑.20
Relaxed/incorr. footwork in non-value parts throughout ↑.20
Relaxed/incorr./insuff. leg pos./body posture &flexibility in non-value parts throughout ↑.30
Insuff. sureness of performance - throughout ↑.20 (BEAM)

 

[cftmoonlight]

I believe there is a flat .10 or .20 deduction (I forget exactly right now) OVERALL (not each time) if the positions that should be on high toe, are not on high toe (pivot turns, etc). I do not think the rule is .10 each time- that is ridiculous! I hope someone in your area lets your technical committee member know that this is how the judges are interpreting this so a clarification can be sent out ASAP. I hope gym panda can look up exactly what this deduction is. Yikes!

No I believe they have changed it so the judges can now deduct every time.

 

[gymgurl]

wait does that mean you can't walk on a flat foot ever in beam routine?

 

[gympanda]

wait does that mean you can't walk on a flat foot ever in beam routine?

No, it absolutely does not mean that. The only deduction like this is for turning Value Parts being on high toe.

 

[shadow]

thank you for making this thread!!!! i didn't find out about this until yesterday. i couldn't figure out why our girls where getting lower scores... this could be part of the problem^^

 

[3rd_time_around]

Not wanting to argue, but these girls are level 9 and 10, both second year at their levels, and scoring worse. The judge had 13 hash marks and said each one was for not being on high toe. The level 10 routine was amazing with only a wobble on the dismount. Our region's USAG website has the new rule posted with the other new rules. Our owner was livid! It was a critique meet, so the coach conferred with the judges after each rotation, and that is what they said. It was very discouraging, and like I said, practice has been focused on high toe and other dance elements since.

 

[gympanda]

Not wanting to argue, but these girls are level 9 and 10, both second year at their levels, and scoring worse. The judge had 13 hash marks and said each one was for not being on high toe. The level 10 routine was amazing with only a wobble on the dismount. Our region's USAG website has the new rule posted with the other new rules. Our owner was livid! It was a critique meet, so the coach conferred with the judges after each rotation, and that is what they said. It was very discouraging, and like I said, practice has been focused on high toe and other dance elements since.

I have no doubt that is what the judge said and did, however, it is not applying a rule that I know of. I went through the technical updates and the 'What's New in JO" document from September on the USAG website and could only find the new rule I had mentioned above: New deduction effective August 1, 2010:“Failure to perform value parts from the turn category in high releve’—Up to 0.10â€￾

I also went through the Region 8 website (which was an assumption as to where you are based on your username) and found this exact thing posted there (it's actually where I copied it from). Region 8 Gymnastics "The Best of 8 Worlds" (second section - Technical Notes). So, it is pretty clear the deduction is only applicable to Value Parts from the Turn Category, not any time during the routine they are flat footed or not in high releve. Most gymnasts are only doing one skill from the turn category in their routine, so this is why it feels so off to me to have 1.3 in high releve deductions. Likely this new rule is just being applied incorrectly in your area. It happens and is unfortunate, but good to know before the season gets into full swing.

If you have a link to where there is a rule posting saying it is .1 each time a gymnast is not in high releve during the beam routine it would be great to send along, so I can pass to my region's technical chairman for clarification if we are potentially confused in our region and should be applying that rule.

 

[fuzi]

What level are you?

If I remember correctly, there is a deduction of Up to 0.4 or 0.5 for not being on high releve throughout compulsory beam routines, plus the deduction on turns.

 

[shadow]

i just talked to a judge about this last week and she said that this was not a new rule and some judges take it differently. Some give an over all deduction and some take off for each time. also, some only take off for turns and releves and some for the whole routine. she basically said it varies between judges

 

[3rd_time_around]

Our girls went to a clinic last week and had their routines judged again, and this time the girls could talk directly to the judges. they scored 9.4's and 9.5's, so i think that first meet had some judges that were applying the rule incorrectly. It was still discouraging when it happened, but I'm hoping it was just over-zealous judges and won't happen like that again.