Quiet Resistance?

[ZZMom]

Question for Coaches or Parents Who Have Experienced Similar,

My little daughter (turned 5 on Tuesday) has always had a tendency to have what we call "silent temper tantrums." That is, if she becomes unhappy or doesn't get what she wants she just stops whatever she is doing and stands without moving, refuses to talk or move, and generally withdraws. The summer before last, she had to miss a field trip at her preschool because the teachers were unable to carry her (which is what she wanted) and keep up with the rest of the children. She was made to miss the next field trip and it was explained to her clearly why she was missing it.

All it took was one missed field trip and she was much more compliant and she learned that silent temper tantrums were a non-starter on field trips.

She's been moved to a developmental program in her gym and mostly gets along fine but the coach noted her "quiet resistance" during a couple of classes. These episodes usually happen when she becomes frustrated. Most recently, the group moved to a skill she has been having trouble with and rather than even try the skill, she just stopped and stood there, refusing to look at or talk to the teacher.

So... basically, this is a child who doesn't really act out but might just freeze in the middle of practice without you knowing why. I knew why in the case above because I knew she was frustrated by the skill but her coach had no idea what was going on.

I've see two different coaching approaches to this unfortunate habit of hers.

1. Coach one removed her from the group as soon as it was clear that she was starting to go in to one of these episodes and told her she could rejoin the group when she was ready. Result: She sat stubbornly for a while (10-15 minutes) and then rejoined the group.

2. Coach two tried to her to reason with her and even lifted her and moved her to put her in line, etc. Coach two seemed to feel really bad that ZZ was upset (which made me feel bad). Result: After 10-15 minutes, she recovered and decided to participate.

Sorry for being long-winded but wanted to give you the full story of the alternatives I've seen.

Question: How would you handle this type of child (keeping in mind that this is a preschooler). And, to take coach one's approach one step further, do you think it would be helpful to have the child taken home for the day by their parent rather than just temporarily removed from the group?

As little ZZ's mom, I recognize that these are really her version of temper tantrums and do not want to allow her to get away with them. She loves gymnastics and asks to go every day (she goes twice a week). Her quiet temper tantrums are not a function of her not enjoying whatever the activity is, just how she deals with frustration or not getting what she wants.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Best Wishes,

ZZMom

 

[CoachGoofy]

I had a stop-and-do-nothing kid a few months ago. She was a few years older than your daughter, but roughly the same precipitant--frustration or asking her to do something other than what she wanted to do.

When she just stopped, she had a choice going for a drink to regain her composure, or to sit out & come back when she was ready. We had a couple other stipulations (like no, you may not sit out in the middle of a piece of equipment, especially not one in use).

That's probably how I'd handle it with a 5 year old too. I may ask after a couple minutes if she was ready to come back and try *insert here*, but I don't like making stuff like that a big deal if I don't have to for a number of reasons.

 

[ginnymac]

I would go with the "you may sit out or go get a drink until you are ready to come back and work". If she really likes gymnastics, she won't want to be out too long.

The problem would be if she is always ready to "rejoin" once the activity that is difficult is over. If this becomes a pattern of avoidance, another technique may be necessary.

"I know this is a challenging activity, but why don't you get a quick drink and then come in and try it again" or something like that. Or, maybe giving her a set # of attempts may help her to understand that the challenging activity won't be going on forever. "Why don't you take a 1 minute break (I'd even use a timer) and then come and try _____ 3 times". Maybe being more concrete would help.

She can't always miss practicing the things that she doesn't like or are difficult. That would not be setting up a good lifelong strategy!!

HTH!

 

[bogwoppit]

My beloved DD was just like this at five. After goiing through this for a while. I actually told her if she did it one more time at gym she was going to be pulled out. SHe did it, then I took her out of gym for three months. SHe begged to go back daily, I told her that she wasn't going back for three months and until she had learned that she cannot behave that way in a class I was paying for. She went back and the stubborn silent moments went away.

It is all about control, the y cannot control what is going on and it is their way of trying to make things work for them. They need to learn that life is not always going to wait for them.

Good luck, my kid is still strong willed, but she has learned that that this is not acceptable, and that if she wants to be part of a team she has to play by the rules, even if she doesn't like them.

 

[nevertooold]

It is all about control, the y cannot control what is going on and it is their way of trying to make things work for them. They need to learn that life is not always going to wait for them.

Agreed.

The problem with just letting them stew for a few minutes and come back on their own is that the truly stubborn ones may not give it up and it becomes a battle of wills. A truly stubborn 5 yr old can wear down the best intentioned of adults. And it is unfair to and distracting to the children who are behaving appropriately.

How about a brisk hand held walk to the lobby and say to mom "I'm very sorry, but gymnastics is for girls who want to have fun and try new things and that doesn't seem to be what Susie wants to do"

If you cannot take them out, I would suggest coach saying to parent in front of child after class "I'm very worried that this class is too challenging for Susie, she seems frustrated and doesn't want to try, please talk to her and find out if she would be happier in a different class. I don't want to make her unhappy, we all love Susie here and want to see her learn and have fun, but in THIS class we expect the girls to work hard, try new things, do as they are asked, etc."

I think giving any attention to the behaviour could encourage it. All the girls get frustrated. All the girls might like a few minutes to wander to the water fountain or sit and veg for a few. Why should that be offered to the one who isn't being compliant?

 

[gymdog]

I don't really play around with these kinds of behavior issues. Don't want to do it? I'll ask you every turn to take your turn...and offer alternative progressions...but if you don't take your turn in a timely manner the next kid is up. I had a kid doing a similar thing the other week (about the same level and age, a little older) and I mostly ignored it (except to request she stand up a few times, since I don't allow sitting on the floor for no reason). Eventually it got to the point of disruption and that point I pulled her aside and told her "this is not how we do class, you need to get in line and finish class" and she more or less did so. She is early school age, I have a little more leeway for kids who aren't school age yet.

Pleading and begging is NOT the way to go; that's giving in to undesirable behavior. I also wouldn't tend to make a kid sit out unless they're disruptive. Usually I have found with kids at this age level a very direct and no nonsense tone is the most effective thing overall. I have surprisingly good results just saying firmly "stand up, we're in class and you need to do class now." If they refuse I'd just ignore them and make them continue to move with the class. I make it clear when their turn is and that I'd like them to take it, clear enough apparently since I've never had a parent complain.

 

[coachmolly]

I think giving any attention to the behaviour could encourage it. All the girls get frustrated. All the girls might like a few minutes to wander to the water fountain or sit and veg for a few. Why should that be offered to the one who isn't being compliant?

I think this is very true. The more attention they get, the more they think it's acceptable. Honestly, if a child in my class exhibited this kind of behavior I would give them the option of returning to class or going to sit in time out. If they continued to be unresponsive I would turn my attention back to the rest of the class and allow that child to continue standing in place. It's their choice to participate in class and I'm not going to fight with them too much to get them to come back at the expense of the other students.
Have you found any techniques that work at home when your DD exhibits this kind of behavior? It might be helpful for the coaches if you can offer them a few tips on how to combat this behavior.

 

[gymcoach34]

As her coach, I would definitly want to know that this is a common reaction to her frustration, as well as some ideas as to what you have found works best. The coach might not know your daughter well enough to figure things out that quickly. If they are on the younger/ less experienced side, a quick chat is definitely necessary.

 

[ZZMom]

Thanks All

Thanks for all your input!

I think I will watch this for one more class and then (if it recurs) talk to the teacher about having her come out of class and be taken home if she does not cooperate. She's generally had a bit of a tough week due to having way to much sugar available and a bit more than usual stimulation (Halloween followed by her 5th birthday followed two days later by her brothers birthday).

I definitely know that this is a stubborness issue that cannot be tolerated in the class. We'll also be watching more closely to any incidents of this at home and make sure we are are not reinforcing the negative behavior at home.

Thanks again for your help!

ZZMom

 

[NGL780309]

This may come across as harsh, but I'd grab my kid and haul her to the car and tell her she was never going back if she ever behaved that way again. I have a 5 year old and I don't put up with much. It's not doing them any favors to allow it. It's better to teach them the appropriate way to deal with frustrations.

As a teacher I'm much nicer to other kids than my own. I will often try distraction. If a kid is throwing a tantrum of any kind or refusing to participate I will often ask them to be my helper or show another kid to do something they are really good at. Sometimes I will ask them to join and if they don't I will stop and pull out something really, really fun. Then say I'm really sad that they chose not to follow directions. That usually nips that behavior in the bud.

Question for Coaches or Parents Who Have Experienced Similar,

My little daughter (turned 5 on Tuesday) has always had a tendency to have what we call "silent temper tantrums." That is, if she becomes unhappy or doesn't get what she wants she just stops whatever she is doing and stands without moving, refuses to talk or move, and generally withdraws. The summer before last, she had to miss a field trip at her preschool because the teachers were unable to carry her (which is what she wanted) and keep up with the rest of the children. She was made to miss the next field trip and it was explained to her clearly why she was missing it.

All it took was one missed field trip and she was much more compliant and she learned that silent temper tantrums were a non-starter on field trips.

She's been moved to a developmental program in her gym and mostly gets along fine but the coach noted her "quiet resistance" during a couple of classes. These episodes usually happen when she becomes frustrated. Most recently, the group moved to a skill she has been having trouble with and rather than even try the skill, she just stopped and stood there, refusing to look at or talk to the teacher.

So... basically, this is a child who doesn't really act out but might just freeze in the middle of practice without you knowing why. I knew why in the case above because I knew she was frustrated by the skill but her coach had no idea what was going on.

I've see two different coaching approaches to this unfortunate habit of hers.

1. Coach one removed her from the group as soon as it was clear that she was starting to go in to one of these episodes and told her she could rejoin the group when she was ready. Result: She sat stubbornly for a while (10-15 minutes) and then rejoined the group.

2. Coach two tried to her to reason with her and even lifted her and moved her to put her in line, etc. Coach two seemed to feel really bad that ZZ was upset (which made me feel bad). Result: After 10-15 minutes, she recovered and decided to participate.

Sorry for being long-winded but wanted to give you the full story of the alternatives I've seen.

Question: How would you handle this type of child (keeping in mind that this is a preschooler). And, to take coach one's approach one step further, do you think it would be helpful to have the child taken home for the day by their parent rather than just temporarily removed from the group?

As little ZZ's mom, I recognize that these are really her version of temper tantrums and do not want to allow her to get away with them. She loves gymnastics and asks to go every day (she goes twice a week). Her quiet temper tantrums are not a function of her not enjoying whatever the activity is, just how she deals with frustration or not getting what she wants.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Best Wishes,

ZZMom

 

[cher062]

This is my field of expertise and I have been in the Early childhood field for over 20 years. For any type of "tantrum"or "defiant" behavior the best thing to do move the child to a safe place and keep an eye to make sure they are safe but basilcy ignore them until they are ready to come back. Reasoning doesn't work because they are upset and really arent listening to you. If you start talking to them and trying to reason you give the child the control of the situation and promote that behavior to continue. The behavior got the results the child wanted basicly. Just like anyone else if it works they will keep doing it.

I'm with Coach 1's approach. I would add a component of extra praise when they act the way you want. Give the attention to the behavior you are looking to promote.

I don't think I would send them home because usually no matter what you do most tantrums usually don't last much longer than 30 min (yes I know there are some stubborn ones out there that last alot longer).

 

[gymjoy]

This is my field of expertise and I have been in the Early childhood field for over 20 years. For any type of "tantrum"or "defiant" behavior the best thing to do move the child to a safe place and keep an eye to make sure they are safe but basilcy ignore them until they are ready to come back. Reasoning doesn't work because they are upset and really arent listening to you. If you start talking to them and trying to reason you give the child the control of the situation and promote that behavior to continue. The behavior got the results the child wanted basicly. Just like anyone else if it works they will keep doing it.

I'm with Coach 1's approach. I would add a component of extra praise when they act the way you want. Give the attention to the behavior you are looking to promote.

I don't think I would send them home because usually no matter what you do most tantrums usually don't last much longer than 30 min (yes I know there are some stubborn ones out there that last alot longer).

I wish my son had had you in pre-school. He, too, is a child with the Quiet Resistance syndrome - except he would lay face down on the floor so as not to see anyone. No matter how often I talked with his teacher about appropriate measures to curb this behavior (You know, I'd only raised him for 5 years - I might know something!!), she insisted on nagging him, berating him, and when he did participate her praise was sarcastic and back-handed. I became so angry that he has been home-schooled ever since.

I did what you suggest above for the same reason - he is not listening when he is in that state. He needs a few minutes to gather himself - it usually takes 5 or 10 minutes. (even now at 10yo. though he doesn't lay on the floor anymore, you just see the emotions on his face.)

For ZZmom, I think coach one is taking the right track with this behavior. Yes, it is stubbornness, but it arises out of a need - not a need for deviance, as was the label thrust on my son, but a need to deal with their emotions/frustrations in their heads, on their own.

My one tweak on cher's advise is that I find my son is not motivated by lavish praise ( it has the opposite effect of shutting him down), but by understated praise and feeling respected. For example, if he is having a hard time at his tennis lesson, his coach will send him off court to get a drink (which is the signal they both use when my son needs to gather himself together - he can ask for a drink, or be told to get one.) When he returns and plays well he hates to hear about his triumph over his emotions/frustrations. Coach just says - nice job today, keeping working on that serve it is almost there.

 

[ZZMom]

Thanks again for these additional posts. I also agree with coach 1 since though they are trying to be helpful, coach 2 is in a way reinforcing the behavior by trying to reason with ZZ and taking time away from the rest of the class. I want to eliminate the attention for the tantrum while still giving her an opportunity to recover and go on with the activity she loves.

Thanks again to all who replied.

Best Wishes,

ZZMom

 

[ZZMom]

Sadly - Getting Worse

So, we did talk to the teacher (coach two) and requested that she bring ZZ to us to sit out if she was having issues (what coach one would have done). She has class twice a week and last Thursday did a little better after I talked to her before class about "listening to the teacher the first time" (something they learn at her preschool - where she has NO problems). She still had some issues that I thought should have warranted a "sit out" but the teacher didn't bring her out so...

Today, it was just awful. She was totally resistent and the teacher kept trying to reason with her throughout the class but never had her sit out. The teacher was obviously frustrated and was losing her cool a bit with ZZ which the other kids seemed to pick up on. Right at the end of class, one of them shoved her HARD into the wall when they were waiting for their turns on tramp (both were bouncing when they should have been waiting for their turn). ZZ started crying and the coach picked her up and put her on the floor and told the girl who shoved her to "go ahead honey."

After class the teacher came over the told me that "ZZ is being disruptive by not cooperating so I may have to have her sit out." What a great idea! Why didn't we think of that? Oh that's right, it was us who requested it. She said this in front of other parents and acted as though it was her idea rather than saying that she was agreeing with our suggestion. I told her that I thought this was a wonderful idea but also told her that I didn't think it was okay for her to reward a child who physically pushed another child the way she had. She said "ZZ was bouncing when she wasn't supposed to be." I said, "Well, weren't they both bouncing when they weren't supposed to be? Why does that make it okay for one preschooler to push another into a wall?"

I know I'm venting but I'm wondering if this coach is going to be able to deal with this particular child.

I know the behavior is difficult but ZZ was doing very well in her other class (also twice a week) so I know it is not gymnastics that is the problem. Also, ZZ has reason to have this trouble. We think she shuts down when she is sad or frustrated because she spent the first 9 months of her life living in an orphanage. She was not in the best condition when we adopted her. We think she shuts down because at a young age, her needs weren't met. No amount of reasoning with her when she is in this state helps. She just needs to time to pull herself together.

Maybe this has moved beyond a question.

 

[Sarah'sMom]

I really feel for your difficulty here. I can feel in your post your frustration in wanting to help your child with these issues. I wish I had something to offer in the way of a suggestion that could help. I'm just not sure. So I offer my support and understand at how difficult it must be. And, for my suggestion, I'm wondering if your daughter is going twice a week. If so, does she have coach 1 one day and coach 2 the other day? If so, you might consider having her just have class with coach 1 for awhile with just 1 class a week. Maybe coach 1 can help you with this a bit better. Take care. I hope you see the light at the end of the tunnel soon.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

So, we did talk to the teacher (coach two) and requested that she bring ZZ to us to sit out if she was having issues (what coach one would have done). She has class twice a week and last Thursday did a little better after I talked to her before class about "listening to the teacher the first time" (something they learn at her preschool - where she has NO problems). She still had some issues that I thought should have warranted a "sit out" but the teacher didn't bring her out so...

Today, it was just awful. She was totally resistent and the teacher kept trying to reason with her throughout the class but never had her sit out. The teacher was obviously frustrated and was losing her cool a bit with ZZ which the other kids seemed to pick up on. Right at the end of class, one of them shoved her HARD into the wall when they were waiting for their turns on tramp (both were bouncing when they should have been waiting for their turn). ZZ started crying and the coach picked her up and put her on the floor and told the girl who shoved her to "go ahead honey."

After class the teacher came over the told me that "ZZ is being disruptive by not cooperating so I may have to have her sit out." What a great idea! Why didn't we think of that? Oh that's right, it was us who requested it. She said this in front of other parents and acted as though it was her idea rather than saying that she was agreeing with our suggestion. I told her that I thought this was a wonderful idea but also told her that I didn't think it was okay for her to reward a child who physically pushed another child the way she had. She said "ZZ was bouncing when she wasn't supposed to be." I said, "Well, weren't they both bouncing when they weren't supposed to be? Why does that make it okay for one preschooler to push another into a wall?"

I know I'm venting but I'm wondering if this coach is going to be able to deal with this particular child.

I know the behavior is difficult but ZZ was doing very well in her other class (also twice a week) so I know it is not gymnastics that is the problem. Also, ZZ has reason to have this trouble. We think she shuts down when she is sad or frustrated because she spent the first 9 months of her life living in an orphanage. She was not in the best condition when we adopted her. We think she shuts down because at a young age, her needs weren't met. No amount of reasoning with her when she is in this state helps. She just needs to time to pull herself together.

Maybe this has moved beyond a question.

todays coaches must deal with much more than i when i started coaching as a young coach. and unfortunately for everyone, dealing with issues that coaches will never be adequately trained for or educated in. as a parent i sincerely sympathize with your plight. ***sad sigh***

 

[coachmolly]

I'm so sorry for your frustrations in the gym, but I really commend you for coming up with a reasonable solution and presenting it to the coach, it's just unfortunate the coach isn't choosing to use it.
As far as the other child pushing your dd, she needed to be punished. I don't care if the child who was pushed was not following directions, cut in line, whatever, pushing is never okay.
Have you explained your dd's personal circumstances with the coaches? Just told them about her background and suggested why her behavior can be a little difficult at times? I know when I have a child who has some behavioral issues from time to time and don't know why, it can be really frustrating. I find I have a lot more patience when the parents have explained the situation to me and I can empathize much more with the situation.
Also, I know she's young, maybe a little too young for this, but could you maybe find a way to get her to express her frustration in other ways? Let her know it's okay to say that she's frustrated, she doesn't understand, she's upset, those kinds of things. I have had a number of kids who are just afraid to tell the coach when they are scared or frustrated so they just display that emotion in some other behavior- crying, saying they are sick or tired, acting out, etc. It can sometimes help when I explain to them that it's okay to be upset or afraid and if they just tell me I can try to find a way to fix things. I can definitely see this being the problem if your dd isn't especially comfortable with this new coach.
I'm sure I didn't provide any help for your situation, but I'm so sorry you and your dd are going through this. I think you have a good grasp on the situation, acknowledging both areas where your dd can improve and areas where the coach can improve instead of just seeing one side of the story; I wish more parents had such a flexible and proactive approach when their children were acting out in class!

 

[bogwoppit]

THe right coach is key for a little one like this. My DD has been with the same coach since she was 3, except for her little break, and this coach totally gets her and works with her strengths.

I can totally feel that you are needing more than this coach can give, but your DD does enjoy gym. Would you consider talking to the head coach, tell her the whole story, including your adoption and how you feel that might be a factor. YOu might get a good response and more support.

I am sure this is very tough for you, but the fact that you care so much to want to make it better for her is a great thing.

 

[nevertooold]

Working with children who have spent time in orphanages is a unique and challenging situation for which most coaches are ill prepared. We have happened to have multiple children in our developmental and team program who have been adopted from orphanages abroad and encountered many unique situations with them. I can only URGE you to place your child in a class with an ADULT instructor, the most understanding and nurturing one you can find and explain your situation to them fully and explicitly. Tell them what works at home and what works at school, and anything else that you think will help them understand the situation.

My original response was not taking into account your child's unique situation. I have been lucky to be guided by an adoptive mother who is also a nurse and has done a TON of research on what works for these kids and what does not. You have to help your child's coach help your child, and that will be easier if the coach is an adult, a parent, or a born nurturer.

I will say, that I have made exceptions for some of these children that I would not make for others that come from more developmentally nurturing backgrounds. One had to sit next to me, practically on my lap, regardless of what we were doing, for a good year, and even now, 5 yrs later, when she is in a funk, I know she just needs to be close to me to pull her back in. Another NEEDS to be pushed constantly, she cannot push herself and always looks for the easy road, and without her parent knowing this and helping us see this in her we would not recognize it.

And we have also had orphanage adopted students with NO perceivable issues. They are all unique.

Good luck to you and ZZ!!

 

[ZZMom]

Thank you!

Thank you all for your kind and thoughful responses. In my original post, I hesitated to fully disclose the situation with my daughter since I don't want to place blame for everything that happens with ZZ on her early life.

Honestly, to this point, we have never had an issue that required a full discussion of her background with a teacher. She has done well in preschool (where she also takes a dance class). We did have to sit her out of a field trip as I mentioned in my first post due to this freezing behavior but the issue was resolved easily by making sure she understood the consequences of her actions.

I had a long, tearful discussion with my older daughter tonight who is a former level 10 gymnast and has coached for three years. She thinks I should have a sit down with the coach and the head coach of the gym and explain the full situation of ZZ's life and how she does test adults and responds best to understanding that if she acts out she will have to sit out. That no one will be mad at her but she does need to behave. She thinks that once the coach bonds with ZZ, they will be able to work through things without in different ways.

I really appreciate how well some of the coaches here expressed their understanding of this situation. Any child who spends part of their life in an institution has special needs.

But as my beautiful older daughter told me tonight. This should NOT be a big deal. ZZ has never been a problem anywhere else. If the coach isn't willing to work with us to create the structure and support ZZ needs, we'll simply take her where they will.

Best Wishes

ZZMom