Parents So, our gym doesn't have a pit...

[gymgal]

Ok, I have to ask because this just doesn't make sense to me - how in the world does digging a hole in concrete cost $100,000. I completely understand that the equipment would be expensive, but I can't imagine more than $10,000 for the tramp, padding, blocks. Then $10k for the hole., unless you are talking about all the duplicate equipment attached to it like another Vt, bars, etc. Even so, $100 grand seems like overkill, especially if we are talking about your average gym that trains up through 10 and college prospects. Am I missing something?

 

[agymmom]

dunno - of those pictures, is a resi pit a hole in the ground with a mat? and the square blocks are foam pits? (We don't have a pit at our gym and (I think) I have only ever seen a loose foam pit.

 

[DisMom]

WOW! Thanks, everyone, for such a spirited discussion! I guess I picked a good topic for my first post!

What does your daughter want out of gymnastics? The olympics, a scholarship, to be good and learn some cool stuff, to be with her friends? What do you want her to get out of it?

I think if your DD is focussed on being the absolute best she can be (whatever that may be), the social side is irrelevant to her, and she wants to make the sacrifices that come with higher level gymnastics, then I'd be looking around for a gym that has good coaching and the equipment necessary, like dunno says.

If she's happy where she is, with no particular ambition, just enjoys doing gym and being with her school friends is important to her, then it sounds like you have a safe, convenient gym for that, which is better than bad coaching with pits.

How high does your gym go? I'd probably leave her there until she maxes out and is starting to learn advanced skills that really do need a pit.

These are good questions! Well, my DD is only 9, so as of right now, she thinks the sky is the limit. She knows that Olympics aren't likely, but she would like to go all the way to elite and/or compete at the college level. And you are right...the social aspect is already secondary to her. She has come out and said that she would leave her friends at this gym in a heartbeat for a "better" gym. I'm not sure what "better" means to her...this is a conversation we have to have soon.

Our current gym only goes to Level 7. We have had higher levels in the past, though. And our boys' team goes to L10. But they travel to another gym once/week to use their pit!

My guess is that this will be her last year at this gym as she will be an optional by the end of this year (or they may move her up mid-season).

compared to what other gyms that have 9's, 10's and elites? successful is a relative term. and your former gym didn't know how to use a pit. this does not make pits bad. it's the people that use them incorrectly. and if i'm remembering correctly, and i'm sure you will corect me if i'm wrong, but wasn't your former gym the one with the pit that wasn't big enough for any use at all?

and i'm glad you mentioned boys. does your gym have any boys doing triples off rings and high bar? how about yurchenko doubles either twisting or flipping? handspring double fronts? handspring double front 1/2's? how about triple backs on floor? how about any tumbling for that matter that you see at the collegiate or olympic level?

there is no ice cubes chance in hell that any of the above can be learned without pits, resi's and in some cases spotting belts. and sometimes a combination of all 3. but it starts with the pits. plain and simple.

so i hope you understand that where a coach decides to work is a deal breaker for them if the gym does not have pits. how they teach what we teach coupled with the shelf life of their bicep tendons, knees and back leaves a prudent coach no alternative in coaching high level gymnastics without the training devices.

some of you don't seem to understand, because of where you are in the gymnastics continuum, that coaches can't be in the way or beneath some of the gymnastics that gymnasts perform. 1st, the athletes wouldn't have it any other way. 2ndly, you would have coaches becoming catastrophically injured. some of you need to "brush up on your Shakespeare" before you start opining about the efficacy, safety and practicality of pits versus spotting.

Thank you SO much for this opinion. And just to be clear, when you say advanced gymnasts/advanced skills...are you meaning L7 and up? Or just 9s and 10s? Thanks!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Ok, I have to ask because this just doesn't make sense to me - how in the world does digging a hole in concrete cost $100,000. I completely understand that the equipment would be expensive, but I can't imagine more than $10,000 for the tramp, padding, blocks. Then $10k for the hole., unless you are talking about all the duplicate equipment attached to it like another Vt, bars, etc. Even so, $100 grand seems like overkill, especially if we are talking about your average gym that trains up through 10 and college prospects. Am I missing something?

approx $80 a square foot to excavate, construct and pour back walls. what on earth do you think an olympic size pool costs? 10 grand?? geesh. do the math on the number i gave you and that will give you the square footage with a 6 foot depth. i've told you all before...you have no idea how expensive a good training facility can cost. and i said i have both mens and womens. i said i have 12 apparatus that go in to this pit simultaneously without anyone hitting each other. do you understand how big the pit has to be to accommodate that? watch this video and educate yourselves. i would post my own but that would give me away.

International Gymnastics Camp : Summer Gymnastics Camp Training in Pennsylvania

 

[Deleted member D3987]

dunno - of those pictures, is a resi pit a hole in the ground with a mat? and the square blocks are foam pits? (We don't have a pit at our gym and (I think) I have only ever seen a loose foam pit.

yes, that is correct. a mat in a hole instead of loose foam cubes.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

WOW! Thanks, everyone, for such a spirited discussion! I guess I picked a good topic for my first post!



These are good questions! Well, my DD is only 9, so as of right now, she thinks the sky is the limit. She knows that Olympics aren't likely, but she would like to go all the way to elite and/or compete at the college level. And you are right...the social aspect is already secondary to her. She has come out and said that she would leave her friends at this gym in a heartbeat for a "better" gym. I'm not sure what "better" means to her...this is a conversation we have to have soon.

Our current gym only goes to Level 7. We have had higher levels in the past, though. And our boys' team goes to L10. But they travel to another gym once/week to use their pit!

My guess is that this will be her last year at this gym as she will be an optional by the end of this year (or they may move her up mid-season).



Thank you SO much for this opinion. And just to be clear, when you say advanced gymnasts/advanced skills...are you meaning L7 and up? Or just 9s and 10s? Thanks!

my opinion is that the kids need to start as young as possible being trained in the use of pits. it's sequential just as gymnastics is.

 

[ZZMom]

I agree with Dunno about kids starting to work into a pit as early as possible. My older DD started to work into a pit a bit later and found it very "scary" for a while. My little DD's whole pre-team group has learned their squat ons (with a big jump up toward an imaginary high bar) with minimal spotting on a pit bar.

Best Wishes,

ZZMom

 

[LizzieLac]

approx $80 a square foot to excavate, construct and pour back walls. what on earth do you think an olympic size pool costs? 10 grand?? geesh. do the math on the number i gave you and that will give you the square footage with a 6 foot depth. i've told you all before...you have no idea how expensive a good training facility can cost. and i said i have both mens and womens. i said i have 12 apparatus that go in to this pit simultaneously without anyone hitting each other. do you understand how big the pit has to be to accommodate that? watch this video and educate yourselves. i would post my own but that would give me away.

International Gymnastics Camp : Summer Gymnastics Camp Training in Pennsylvania

Right, but another option is building it above the ground, as I mentioned. It less expensive for lumber. We have a vault runway that goes into one end and pit bars at the other. That being said, you would be surprised how much just the foam costs!!

 

[gymgal]

approx $80 a square foot to excavate, construct and pour back walls. what on earth do you think an olympic size pool costs? 10 grand?? geesh. do the math on the number i gave you and that will give you the square footage with a 6 foot depth. i've told you all before...you have no idea how expensive a good training facility can cost. and i said i have both mens and womens. i said i have 12 apparatus that go in to this pit simultaneously without anyone hitting each other. do you understand how big the pit has to be to accommodate that? watch this video and educate yourselves. i would post my own but that would give me away.

Lol - I have never seen you write so much on any topic!

I may be the only one to misunderstand, but I did not take your original $100 grand comment about the pit to mean your gym specifically. I thought you were talking in general terms and while I can see the larger gyms having the need for such an expense, I'm betting most gyms in the US do not have pits remotely close to the size you are talking about.

And $80/ sq ft sounds very high. Maybe you live in a very remote area or a super expensive metro area, but our area averages $50/sq ft for pools, which are a lot more complicated than pits.

As a side note, I can't even imagine a gym that is big enough to be running up to twelve different groups in a pit at the same time! It must be massive! How many gymnasts do you have?

 

[DisMom]

Lol - I have never seen you write so much on any topic!

I may be the only one to misunderstand, but I did not take your original $100 grand comment about the pit to mean your gym specifically. I thought you were talking in general terms and while I can see the larger gyms having the need for such an expense, I'm betting most gyms in the US do not have pits remotely close to the size you are talking about.

And $80/ sq ft sounds very high. Maybe you live in a very remote area or a super expensive metro area, but our area averages $50/sq ft for pools, which are a lot more complicated than pits.

As a side note, I can't even imagine a gym that is big enough to be running up to twelve different groups in a pit at the same time! It must be massive! How many gymnasts do you have?

Obviously I am not an expert here as I am the one who started the thread...lol! BUT...I know that our current gym WANTS to put in a pit and they said they need to raise $100K to do it. So I am guessing that is somewhat of a standard price. The problem is that our gym is currently renting the space they are in. And I totally understand the owner not wanting to spend that kind of money and do major excavation when they don't own the building. You can take all of your equipment with you, but you can't move a hole in the ground!

 

[wgagym]

approx $80 a square foot to excavate, construct and pour back walls. what on earth do you think an olympic size pool costs? 10 grand?? geesh. do the math on the number i gave you and that will give you the square footage with a 6 foot depth. i've told you all before...you have no idea how expensive a good training facility can cost. and i said i have both mens and womens. i said i have 12 apparatus that go in to this pit simultaneously without anyone hitting each other. do you understand how big the pit has to be to accommodate that? watch this video and educate yourselves. i would post my own but that would give me away.

International Gymnastics Camp : Summer Gymnastics Camp Training in Pennsylvania

Now that is a great pit!! I am in the midst of expansion and we will have 2 pits. I thought I did pretty good when I got three different apparatus going into each pit

 

[JessLW]

With your DD already talking about wanting to switch gyms for better training, and with your current gym having no pits and no kids above L7, I'd move her sooner rather than later. She gains nothing from hanging around at the old gym if you've already decided a switch is inevitable. Usually the kids are reluctant to leave their friends and coaches but if she's not reluctant, just go for it. No, the commute will not be fun, but you're basically telling us here that you've already made the decision. I think lots of people here will tell you that once the decision is made, you just need to switch asap, like pulling off a band-aid. Lingering around helps no one.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Now that is a great pit!! I am in the midst of expansion and we will have 2 pits. I thought I did pretty good when I got three different apparatus going into each pit

that is good. that's how most of us started. it comes and grows all in due time.

 

[iwannacoach]

Pit envy, pit envy, pit envy, and even more pit envy...............Now that's "some pit!"

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Lol - I have never seen you write so much on any topic!

I may be the only one to misunderstand, but I did not take your original $100 grand comment about the pit to mean your gym specifically. I thought you were talking in general terms and while I can see the larger gyms having the need for such an expense, I'm betting most gyms in the US do not have pits remotely close to the size you are talking about.

And $80/ sq ft sounds very high. Maybe you live in a very remote area or a super expensive metro area, but our area averages $50/sq ft for pools, which are a lot more complicated than pits.

As a side note, I can't even imagine a gym that is big enough to be running up to twelve different groups in a pit at the same time! It must be massive! How many gymnasts do you have?

$80 is about the national average. some owners have paid more. and you couldn't be more wrong about pools being more complicated than pits. it's just not so. i know from experience and fact. and i have both. and i'm not talking about constructing a pool in the side of a mountain in Hollywood.

the building codes that must be complied with for gym pits far exceed anything anywhere in the country where pools are constructed. i used an Olympic pool as an example. but the construction parameters and costs are much more. a pool is not even more expensive to maintain when you consider the cost of foam cubes having to be replaced every 5-10 years.

88 cents a cube for 6X6X6 & $2.10 a cube for 8X8X8 both meet or exceed CFR 117 and have been flame retardant treated. an average size pit hole will have 15,000 cubes. do the math. the bigger the hole the more foam you need. i have 1 hole that has over 40,000 cubes of 6X6X6 cubes of 32lb density CFR 117 treated foam.

these costs are the current averages, depending on where you live it may cost you more and you must pay for shipping which adds several thousand dollars to the cost AND the prices are dependent on the price of oil. you still want to debate me on any of this?

and these costs don't include the tramp bottom. where you came up with your cost is beyond me. i have another hole that is 32 feet wide X 22 foot deep end to end. the trampoline for this 1 hole cost $18,000. triple stitched 8 inches in and flaps sewn on to keep the foam from falling in the void between the tramp bed and the cement floor beneath. those 2 features cost an additional $4,000. a pit fluffer from Mancino would cost me approx $60,000 to put in. what else you want to know? currently Penn State is the only program in the country with this device. when the price comes down i will purchase 1 of these also.

to the poster referring to above ground pits. yes, they are cost efficient but you must have the required ceiling height to do so. most don't which is why we dig down. and some municipalities since the Rhode Island nightclub fire will not allow wood. and no longer fire treated wood. they require steel. and some agencies will not allow you to build up at all due to fire regulations and the sprinkler systems. now what do you think that might cost? for what you get and what it can be used for it's still more cost effective to dig down. i know these things, okay?

Kids First/Queen City Gymnastics owned by Jeff Metger has a gym that is 80,000 square feet. mine is 20,000. you can't imagine just how much pit you can put in if you have the resources and funds. and there are several gyms in the USA in between both of ours and they have huge pits. the camps didn't invent these things. we did...the club owner industry.

and i haven't counted lately, but our enrollment is up there over 400. and i've written much more than this on other topics. this one is very important and i don't want anyone to be misinformed or misguided.

 

[MeetDirector]

^^^^^OUTSTANDING!!
Dunno, you are the master and your knowledge on this subject, let alone everything else gymnastics, is beyond reproach. I tip my hat to you, sir!

 

[DisMom]

^^^^ AGREE!

I am learning SO MUCH! Thanks to all who are contributing to this discussion!

 

[gymgal]

$80 is about the national average. some owners have paid more. and you couldn't be more wrong about pools being more complicated than pits. it's just not so. i know from experience and fact. and i have both. the building codes that must be complied with for gym pits far exceed anything anywhere in the country where pools are constructed. i used an Olympic pool as an example. but the construction parameters and costs are much more. a pool is not even more expensive to maintain when you consider the cost of foam cubes having to be replaced every 5-10 years. 88 cents a cube for 6X6X6 & $2.10 a cube for 8X8X8 both meet or exceed CFR 117 and have been flame retardant treated. an average size pit hole will have 15,000 cubes. do the math. the bigger the hole the more foam you need. i have 1 hole that has over 40,000 cubes of 6X6X6 cubes of 32lb density CFR 117 treated foam. these costs are the current averages, depending on where you live it may cost you more and you must pay for shipping which adds several thousand dollars to the cost. you still want to debate me on any of this?

and i haven't counted lately, but our enrollment is up there over 400.

I wasn't debating you... I was looking for clarification for us parents who have not experienced such expansive gyms and pits. It's hard to know for sure from the video, but that pit looks more than double (maybe even triple) any we have seen in the gyms we have been in for meets. So when you mention $100k for pits, and I (or any other parent in smaller gyms) don't have the experience of such a huge pits, it doesn't make sense - hence the confusion and request for clarification.

 

[DisMom]

With your DD already talking about wanting to switch gyms for better training, and with your current gym having no pits and no kids above L7, I'd move her sooner rather than later. She gains nothing from hanging around at the old gym if you've already decided a switch is inevitable. Usually the kids are reluctant to leave their friends and coaches but if she's not reluctant, just go for it. No, the commute will not be fun, but you're basically telling us here that you've already made the decision. I think lots of people here will tell you that once the decision is made, you just need to switch asap, like pulling off a band-aid. Lingering around helps no one.

Well, I am not 100% sure that we are switching...but yes, about 75% of the way there. If my gymnast was my only kid, it would be a no-brainer. But I have 2 other kids and I have to take them and their crazy schedules into consideration as well.

I completely agree that if a switch is to be made, do it sooner rather than later. However, we have started competition season now, so she can't switch until after States, which is in April. I am actually glad about this. That gives us 5 months to really think, research, investigate, and make sure that (1) switching is the right thing for us; and (2) which gym we should switch to. I only want to switch gyms once.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Pit envy, pit envy, pit envy, and even more pit envy...............Now that's "some pit!"

you still want to question the $100,000 cost?