What are they trying to teach?

[ZZMom]

What could a coach be trying to teach a child if they had them:

1. Cast
2. Return to front support
3. Lean forward
4. Back up to front support.
5. Repeat

The child is my six year old in a developmental program. The program is almost exclusively focused on developing strength and flexibility since the gym's philosphy is that early training should focus on these and the skills will follow. My daughter's group has been on bars maybe twice in the past month. When we came to the gym five months ago, ZZ could do a chin-up pullover, three pretty good casts and a back hip circle all by herself on a regular bar set. Not sure if she can any of that anymore. And, of the eight girls in her group she was the only one who followed the above scenario. The rest did chin up pullover followed by casts and in a couple of cases back hip circles.

I was a gymnast and my older dd was a level 10 and I can't say I've ever seen this drill? She said it was "boring" and didn't know why she was doing it.

Thanks for your help.

ZZMom

 

[iwannacoach]

I the order and context you've given, it sound as though the coach is trying to instill the idea of "leaning" forward for a cast. If it works your daughter may be one of the few that can cast properly.

 

[ZZMom]

I the order and context you've given, it sound as though the coach is trying to instill the idea of "leaning" forward for a cast. If it works your daughter may be one of the few that can cast properly.

Thanks iwannacoach. I would have thought this except that I forgot to mention that step 2 where she was asked to lean forward, it wasn't just a lean over the bar, it was a lean all the way down until she was hanging at right angles to the floor. Also, the coach wasn't assisting in any way. She just stood back and had her do the steps. I definitely agree that learning to lean over the bar is extremely important to a good cast but that wasn't what this looked like. I know I'm not explaining it well and it may have been what they were going for but just didn't look like any way I've ever seen it taught. I think the worst part of it was that the coach didn't explain what she was trying to teach ZZ so I'm not sure if she learned anything.

Thanks again.

Best Wishes,

ZZMom

 

[gymdog]

Thanks iwannacoach. I would have thought this except that I forgot to mention that step 2 where she was asked to lean forward, it wasn't just a lean over the bar, it was a lean all the way down until she was hanging at right angles to the floor. Also, the coach wasn't assisting in any way. She just stood back and had her do the steps. I definitely agree that learning to lean over the bar is extremely important to a good cast but that wasn't what this looked like. I know I'm not explaining it well and it may have been what they were going for but just didn't look like any way I've ever seen it taught. I think the worst part of it was that the coach didn't explain what she was trying to teach ZZ so I'm not sure if she learned anything.

Thanks again.

Best Wishes,

ZZMom

Hmm. Based on that I'm guessing it had something to do with the shift at the end of the circle, which a lot of little kids struggle with. But they should have explained why clearly enough so that she would know, otherwise it will not help her as much if she cannot understand and relate it. But really that's only my best guess if she was leaning over that far.

How does this program do in level 4? I agree with focusing on strength, but bar basics are very important. They should be doing casts, glides, and hip circles every practice in my opinion. Certainly pullovers. But I suppose they may ramp up a lot in level 4 and just want to teach everything then. I have seen some programs do that successfully, I guess.

I would probably talk to the coach and say your daughter mentioned she didn't know what she was working on on bars. Then they can hopefully explain it better to her.

 

[AmandaLynn]

I'd tend to agree that the lean over and push back up would be to learn the wrist shift action. You say that your DD had a pull over and a back hip circle. Did she have them in the sense that she did them correctly? Or does she tend to get stuck on top of the bar, then struggle to get to her support? If she's getting "stuck", I can totally see why the coach would be doing this drill. Though, I'd assume that most coaches would explain to the kids why they were doing it.

 

[wallinbl]

I'd assume that most coaches would explain to the kids why they were doing it.

Sometimes knowing what you're trying to correct can cause subconscious changes in how you do the drill.

 

[AmandaLynn]

I suppose. But this is a SUPER basic drill.

 

[gymdog]

I suppose. But this is a SUPER basic drill.

Yeah..and with a little kid I really feel they aren't as likely to make the correction otherwise. At this age I would say it's a very uncommon teaching technique to not explain to them.

 

[ZZMom]

Thanks everyone! After reading your replies and thinking about this, it seems likely that the goal of the drill was for her to improve how she gets to a front support from her pullover. She tends to get a bit "stuck" in her pullover from the point where her legs are over the bar so it is likely that she hasn't mastered how to shift her hands properly here, etc. She doesn't have the same problem with her back hip circle because she has momentum going around the bar. I guess my only gripe is that the coach didn't explain what they working on.

Thanks again for your help!

ZZMom

 

[CreateMagic]

Thanks everyone! After reading your replies and thinking about this, it seems likely that the goal of the drill was for her to improve how she gets to a front support from her pullover. She tends to get a bit "stuck" in her pullover from the point where her legs are over the bar so it is likely that she hasn't mastered how to shift her hands properly here, etc. She doesn't have the same problem with her back hip circle because she has momentum going around the bar. I guess my only gripe is that the coach didn't explain what they working on.

Thanks again for your help!

ZZMom

I'd encourage your daughter to ask! I love it when my little one ask me why we are doing something....it shows me they are interested in their training, not just learning big skills. Sometimes, as coaches, we don't always reqlize we haven't given enough explanation. For example: I've always had my kids (1st year prep rookies) working glides-- naturally, as an early progression to kips. Well, I noticed that the girls were goofing off at that station and not always doing it properly (or even doing it at all!!!). I couldn't figure out why my normally motivated team wouldn't want to get closer to that kip. So I asked them one day how they we going to be able get their kips if they didn't have good glides... Their response? "What's a kip?". My error was that I not only assumed they knew the nature of the drill--I forgot they had never seen a kip before! Our gym has only had a team for 2 years, and this was the first year we had a JO team, level 4 only! After I showed them a kip, and explained that this was a level 5 skill--higher than anyone in the gym!!!--I haven't seen much goofing off at that station!

 

[ZZMom]

How does this program do in level 4? I agree with focusing on strength, but bar basics are very important. They should be doing casts, glides, and hip circles every practice in my opinion. Certainly pullovers. But I suppose they may ramp up a lot in level 4 and just want to teach everything then. I have seen some programs do that successfully, I guess.

Thanks Gymdog, Just realized I forgot to answer your question. The program actually does really well at all levels. The level fours were state champions and so were the level tens and a lot of the levels in between. They do ramp up skills at level four but I think they are also really selective about who they put in their team program.

 

[ZZMom]

I'd encourage your daughter to ask! I love it when my little one ask me why we are doing something....!

I love this! I've always encouraged my kids to ask questions, but for some reason it didn't occur to me with my little six year old. I'll definitely suggest it to her for future situations like this.

Best wishes,

ZZMom

 

[gymdog]

Thanks Gymdog, Just realized I forgot to answer your question. The program actually does really well at all levels. The level fours were state champions and so were the level tens and a lot of the levels in between. They do ramp up skills at level four but I think they are also really selective about who they put in their team program.

Yeah, I've seen programs do that. In that case they usually want to just mostly teach them everything in level 4 except the most basic of skills, so they don't come in with bad habits. It works out fine as long as they do ramp up the skills, which it sounds like is certainly the case in this program.

 

[niklum]

I agree with the other posts that the drill is likely to learn the wrist shift. I would have to see her pullover and BHC to say if it's relevant to your daughter, though. I've had a number of gymnasts come to me from other programs or other coaches already having those two skills, and I had to start them over to learn the right way because the wrist shift was never properly learned. This is the reason why I'm a strong advocate of learning it right the first time!