Why won't her coaches allow her BHS?

[Bella's Mom]

Bella loves doing her back handspring on our tramp at home. She does it quite nicely and is proud of herself for figuring it out. She feels so confident with it that tonight she was throwing ROBHS on the tramp. She has some form breaks that even my untrained eye can see, but I believe that with a bit of coaching, she will fix those.

Whenever she shows her coach that she can land her BHS on the tramp, the coach simply tells her "We aren't working on backhandsprings today." No praise whatsoever. She's not cold about it, just not very enthusiastic at all. Given how warm and wonderful her coach is all the other times, it really stands out.

They rarely work on BHS during regular practice, but Bella is dying to try on one the floor. I won't allow it at home because I have NO idea how to spot such a stunt. I feel like she's getting blown off at the gym.

So my question is, if she is able to land it on a tramp and has shown the desire to learn it, why is her coach discouraging it at the gym? Is there an underlying reason that has to do with her growth as a gymnast? I'm sure there's a logical explanation....I'd just like to know what it is.

 

[gymcoach34]

At that level my focus would not be on a bhs, but rather a great handstand, front and back limbers and walkovers, great cartwheels that "step in" and improving roundoffs. If the gymnast were strong enough, I would definitely start doing bhs drills. (Honestly, a gymnast at that level that chucks a backhandspring on a back yard tramp just means my having to reteach it again later.)

Its hard to teach a really good backhandspring- so its very frustrating to coaches when kids do them on a backyard tramp. (Its also a safety factor- I would not trust the strength & consistency of a child at this level- not to go crooked, bend her arms, etc.).

Im not sure what your coach is thinking (you can always ask) but that is one of my pet peeves at L4 (parents spotting/ teaching kids the bhs at home)-so im sure its something similar at Level 2.5.

 

[wordsmith]

Is Bella in a team or team developmental program? If she is, my best guess is that her coach recognizes the "bad habits" that can develop from those who don't go through proper progressions that reinforces good shapes and technique that will build a strong foundation for future skills to sit upon. Her coach would basically have to "undo" some of the muscle-memory your daughter is developing for every "incorrect" backhandspring she does on her own. It is more difficult for a team coach to "unfix" skills once they are incorrectly learned.

Given the right attributes and sufficient athletic talent and maturity, I can probably teach a flyaway off bars to some types, within a day. But it won't be pretty; and it won't lead to double back flyaways. Or....I can invest a long term plan of mostly nothing but drilling- modeling the right swing and body shaping, getting the gymnast comfortable, relaxed, and consistent with their release point, etc., and end up with a great flyaway that will lead to more advanced dismounts.

It's like the tortoise and the hare....which of the two gymnasts is really more "advanced" and ahead of the other? The one who got her flyaway by "chucking it", or the one who never gets to turn her flyaway over until everything that precedes it is "picture perfect"? One learned a flyaway in a day...the other doesn't do one until maybe months later?


For rec, the "chuck it" approach is probably just fine, so long as it's safe. Who cares about perfect form and execution? But it won't lead to more advanced skills later down the road but will create lots of problems for a competitive gymnast trying to achieve longevity in the sport.

 

[gymnut1]

2 good posts.
I also cringe when a child tells me they can BHS on the tramp at home. I have never seen one that I like. And those bad habits can be killer to undo. Not many 6-7 year olds (unless they do an awful lot of hours and conditioning) have the strength for the arch dish snap or push through the shoulders. And with a tramp they don't need the snap to get over so they don't snap they pike.
It can look neat but be completely wrong! If you want your child to have a decent BHS don't let her do it at home is my advice. But it is a shame her coach didn't explain to her - I am quite open with the kids and their parents. Her coach is right but maybe not expressing herself the best way to your dd.

As an example in my group of 6 year olds one learned to back hip circle on her chin up bar at home. She was the only one who could do it. Now 6 months later they can all do it but hers is the worst. I just can't break the bad habits she made. It has been a learning curve for me a coach as well.

Have her practise press handstands instead - her coach will be more impressed if she can do 5 of those in a row! Stick to split tuck straddle and switch leap jumps on the trampoline. Our kids are not allowed to do 'knee drops' either.

 

[gymnastjess]

Removed post as this was a thread for coaches to answer. Please try to make sure you are posting in the right forum and answering the right question.

 

[10.0]

My 0.2 cents. I HATE kids learning back hand springs on trampolines, especially a kid like yours who is young and very teachable. The thing you do on trampoline and what you need to do on the floor are 2 completly different skills almost. Kids who learn on trampoline do not learn to block off their arms as the trampoline absorbs the impact, they also don't learn how to really jump into the bhs as the trampoline gives the bounce so then I get them and we attempt it on floor and it is a dangerous mess. I'd rather coach a child to do a bhs from the ground up than one who learned to chuck it on their back yard trampoline. I could chuck a double back on the tramp today is I wanted, it does not mean I will ever have it on the floor. I don't know if your gym does it or if they do coach during it but you may try open gym or even a private if you want to give her a special treat of learning a bhs for all her effort in gymnastics. They most likely are not going to teach her one during class until closer to level 4.

 

[Aussie_coach]

As you can see from the many responses it is something coaches tend to dislike when a kid teaches herself the back handspring.

I have a different belief, I feel that if she has taught herself and is showing her BHS to her coach then the coach should be working on it with her. If the coach doesn't she will continue to do her own self taught version at home which will have technical errors she will continue to practice those technical errors and she will get very good at doing it wrong.

Most coaches respond to this by telling their kids that they are not allowed to do them at home, but this rarely works. The kids are going to continue to do it at home, and if they don't they will just get frustrated as they desperately want too.

However, the coach is probably trying to avoid other girls copying and thinking its a good idea to try them at home themselves.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

My daughter was trying to do them by herself at a very young age because all of her siblings did them on the trampoline. I took her to a coach that was very strict on progressions and shapes because I didn't want her to pick up any bad habits. This really had a good outcome because coming from a coach she listened and it slowed down the process because she understood better what needed to be accomplished first and the importance of the shapes. By 4 years old she was doing round off multiples with great form on the floor. I know they say that you shouldn't have 4 year olds doing this but she was going to do it with or without my help. I would rather she do it correctly.

 

[gymdog]

Well if they aren't working on back handsprings in the class I think that is a pretty straightforward answer. Most L2 classes don't focus on the BHS. It is not a private lesson so they probably can't work with just one child on it if they are not focusing on that. I haven't seen her skills so I can't say, but it may also be the coach's opinion that she is not ready to do this skill to the standard expected for competitive gymnastics (which is different than just being able to do it). In addition they probably don't want to encourage using a backyard trampoline to learn flips since it creates bad habits and also can be potentially dangerous.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Bella loves doing her back handspring on our tramp at home. She does it quite nicely and is proud of herself for figuring it out. She feels so confident with it that tonight she was throwing ROBHS on the tramp. She has some form breaks that even my untrained eye can see, but I believe that with a bit of coaching, she will fix those.

Whenever she shows her coach that she can land her BHS on the tramp, the coach simply tells her "We aren't working on backhandsprings today." No praise whatsoever. She's not cold about it, just not very enthusiastic at all. Given how warm and wonderful her coach is all the other times, it really stands out.

They rarely work on BHS during regular practice, but Bella is dying to try on one the floor. I won't allow it at home because I have NO idea how to spot such a stunt. I feel like she's getting blown off at the gym.

So my question is, if she is able to land it on a tramp and has shown the desire to learn it, why is her coach discouraging it at the gym? Is there an underlying reason that has to do with her growth as a gymnast? I'm sure there's a logical explanation....I'd just like to know what it is.

some reason you can't just ask the coach?

 

[lilgymmie7]

"Not many 6-7 year olds (unless they do an awful lot of hours and conditioning) have the strength for the arch dish snap or push through the shoulders. And with a tramp they don't need the snap to get over so they don't snap they pike." by Gymnut.

DD had her robhs at 4 and really perfected it by 5. She didn't learn on tramp. but rather by jumping on our couch. No amount of telling her to STOP worked. She'd watch us turn our backs and she would get back at it. DD's current gym does however break the bh into parts and does teach it on tramp. It seems to work for the kids.

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

IMO- sign her up for a tumbling class at your gym in addition to her team training. If she's on a team right now the focus on my DD's team is getting the Level 3 routines memorized and perfected to begin competing next month. My guess is that the coach isn't interested in working on BHS with the kids right now b/c he/she is working on strength building and routines (this is assuming your DD will compete this year).

 

[Bella's Mom]

Im not sure what your coach is thinking (you can always ask) but that is one of my pet peeves at L4 (parents spotting/ teaching kids the bhs at home)-so im sure its something similar at Level 2.5.

I most definitely am not teaching or spotting tricks. Believe me! I have NO qualifications to do so. LOL

Have her practise press handstands instead - her coach will be more impressed if she can do 5 of those in a row! Stick to split tuck straddle and switch leap jumps on the trampoline. Our kids are not allowed to do 'knee drops' either.

I'll see if I can get her to change her focus on the trampoline. And the press handstands as well.

Well if they aren't working on back handsprings in the class I think that is a pretty straightforward answer. Most L2 classes don't focus on the BHS. It is not a private lesson so they probably can't work with just one child on it if they are not focusing on that.

LOL. The internet is so funny. I find myself assuming that everyone knows my precise situation. *smacks forehead* Her pre-team class has a total of two girls. It is SWEET! It's like getting private lessons for a class price.

some reason you can't just ask the coach?

None at all. Just found myself awake at 2AM and this popped in my head. I knew that the people here are always so helpful and that I would probably get several satisfactory ideas to ponder before our next gym night.

--------------------
Thank you all for the wisdom. My philosophy tends to be more in line with AussieCoach, not just gymnastics but any kind of "teaching" situation. I'm all about the learn at your own pace education philosophies.

But I KNEW there had to be a reason her coach was discouraging it and I REALLY appreciate everyone taking the time to explain how different the tramp is from the floor and how it will be a challenge for her to unlearn the bad habits she is teaching herself.

I will try the re-direction approach and see if that helps. I might casually bring up the BHS to her coach and if the coach is just really adamant, then I am the MOM so if nothing else, I'll put the kabosh (sp??) on it.

And winter is coming so the tramp will be inaccessible for several months.

 

[mariposa]

I will tell you my DDs story. She didn't teach herself a BHS, but she was at a gym with a very different philosophy of training, getting girls to team. She didn't do progressions hardly at all and by 5 was throwing back handsprings that she shouldn't have been even trying. I was clueless at the time. It took her a VERY long time at her new gym (that really doesn't rush the BHS, does lots of shapes and progressions) to fix her bad habits on her ROBHS. She still sometimes will do one like she used to and it has been 1 1/2 years since she switched gyms.

I would strongly encourage her (actually in MY house, MY rules, so my kid simply would not be doing them at home if I told her not to! They don't want to see how quickly I can sell the trampoline!!) not to do them at home.

Bad habits are really hard to break, especially if she will not be learning them correctly at her gym for awhile, she could have a long time trying to fix it and get it right, which will be very frustrating for her. My DD was 6 turning 7 when she switched gyms (she had been a 5 turning 6 year old level 4 at her old gym) and it was so hard for her to re-learn things. She was regressed back to only doing round offs and she didn't get why when she had been doing her ROBHS for almost a year already. Lots of tears. In our case, couldn't have been avoided except by staying at her old gym. In your case, easily avoided!

 

[10.0]

I could completly hijack this thread and go down another road that bugs me to no end. I guess I was a lucky kid IMO as I went to a "rec" gym in the beginning where there were no real levels and only fun meets with other rec. gyms. Thing is they still went off of USAG and taught the skills properly but kids didn't get bored. By the time I left I had round off bhs bt on floor, correctly, kips and squat on's on bars, a hand spring vault over the table as well as half on's and cart wheels and back walk overs on beam and I only finished in the medium-ish level, I also had all my core skills. We didn't have to forever be working on and perfecting rotuines so we did a lot of oher skills. I did however want to go to the Olympics and after a few years of the rec. thing my parents realized I wasn't going to let it go so I went to an elite gym, they also had rec. to to a point pre-team was girls working on getting all their level 5 skills and team and competition did not start until level 5, we also uptrained a lot. And this gym only wanted dedicated kids and parents on team so the others stayed in rec. Little kids tend to get bored easily, many of them do not understand the purpose in good form and don't care about meets and winning medals but they love doing fun tricks! I liked that system and I wish competition began at level 4 ( 1 year to get used to competitions before you have to get scores to move up) I think levels 1-3 should be about fun and skill building, I bet a lot more kids would stay interested if they got to work different skills. I just decided to go off on my own rant, I am not saying this has anything to do with your specific situation, I just see it happening a lot.

 

[MaryA]

Slightly OT, but this discussion brings to mind an interesting contradition at our gym (one of many things that drive me crazy). The HC has a trampoline in her yard for her kids and is a big proponent of girls on the team getting them. We won't have one... not only am I worried about safety and liability issues, but our yard is on a hill so we couldn't even have one if we wanted one. (My dd asks, if our yard wasn't on a hill, then could we get one? I say "sure" because I figure the chances of our yard leveling itself off any time soon are not good.) However, the HC has expressed concern about the Acro class my daughter takes at the local dance studio because she's afraid she'll learn bad form! Certainly form isn't stressed in the class as much as it is in gymnastics, but it's got to be better than her figuring it out on her own on the trampoline! I'm feeling somewhat vindicated by reading the posts here by the coaches. Anyway, my daughter's floor skills are consistantly high, so I'm going to keep her in Acro because she loves it! Thanks for letting me vent!

 

[gymdog]

LOL. The internet is so funny. I find myself assuming that everyone knows my precise situation. *smacks forehead* Her pre-team class has a total of two girls. It is SWEET! It's like getting private lessons for a class price.

Hmm. I don't know then. It might be the opinion of the coach to take slow progressions and she may want to see some more signs of readiness, or a stronger RO (to accelerate the progression from standing BHS to RO BHS). I don't like teaching BHS on tramp. I think the bounce can make it a little harder for them to control the push back (i.e. they go too high). I just prefer to teach it on the floor. I probably start doing spotted drills pretty early though, but I wouldn't focus on it until the RO is strong. Then I push for both standing BHS and RO BHS. But I feel they have to be ready for pretty intensive work because it is very demanding work where they need to show me consistency and good technique to continue.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I most definitely am not teaching or spotting tricks. Believe me! I have NO qualifications to do so. LOL



I'll see if I can get her to change her focus on the trampoline. And the press handstands as well.



LOL. The internet is so funny. I find myself assuming that everyone knows my precise situation. *smacks forehead* Her pre-team class has a total of two girls. It is SWEET! It's like getting private lessons for a class price.



None at all. Just found myself awake at 2AM and this popped in my head. I knew that the people here are always so helpful and that I would probably get several satisfactory ideas to ponder before our next gym night.

--------------------
Thank you all for the wisdom. My philosophy tends to be more in line with AussieCoach, not just gymnastics but any kind of "teaching" situation. I'm all about the learn at your own pace education philosophies.

But I KNEW there had to be a reason her coach was discouraging it and I REALLY appreciate everyone taking the time to explain how different the tramp is from the floor and how it will be a challenge for her to unlearn the bad habits she is teaching herself.

I will try the re-direction approach and see if that helps. I might casually bring up the BHS to her coach and if the coach is just really adamant, then I am the MOM so if nothing else, I'll put the kabosh (sp??) on it.

And winter is coming so the tramp will be inaccessible for several months.

man...don't you just hate that? (in bold)

 

[Bella's Mom]

man...don't you just hate that? (in bold)

LOL.....Yeah, insomnia really kinda sucks.

 

[jdf]

Slightly OT, but this discussion brings to mind an interesting contradition at our gym (one of many things that drive me crazy). The HC has a trampoline in her yard for her kids and is a big proponent of girls on the team getting them. We won't have one... not only am I worried about safety and liability issues, but our yard is on a hill so we couldn't even have one if we wanted one. (My dd asks, if our yard wasn't on a hill, then could we get one? I say "sure" because I figure the chances of our yard leveling itself off any time soon are not good.) However, the HC has expressed concern about the Acro class my daughter takes at the local dance studio because she's afraid she'll learn bad form! Certainly form isn't stressed in the class as much as it is in gymnastics, but it's got to be better than her figuring it out on her own on the trampoline! I'm feeling somewhat vindicated by reading the posts here by the coaches. Anyway, my daughter's floor skills are consistantly high, so I'm going to keep her in Acro because she loves it! Thanks for letting me vent!

I think back yard tramps are too dangerous- what do other people think?