Would this make you mad?

[NGL780309]

So I posted before about DD's team having their first meet where they pretty much bombed bars. They have two bar workouts left next week before the 2nd meet due to Labor Day. So last night at practice they are getting ready for bars and then they start conditioning. The parents were like what is going on. They had conditioned at the beginning of practice.

It turns out one girl had said something mean to another girl and to quote, "the whole team has to pay for it". I completely disagree. Deal with the one child who said something mean. Don't keep everyone from practicing bars because of one child. I'm mad and I didn't even pay a lot of money for this next meet seeing as my child isn't even competing. I don't bring her to the gym to be punished because someone else said something mean.

More and more little things like this are starting to make me really question our choice of gym.

 

[10.0]

Would it make me mad? Honestly it depends. From a parents perspective probably yes, if the story I heard was exactly how it went down. From I coaches prespective I have actually done that myself, granted not when they have a meet coming up and have a lot to work on and not for long periods of time but gymnastics is also a team sport. I do team building activities and well as team "re grouping" if you want to call it that. This also depends on age. But usually when one girl says a mean thing to another, others are joining in too, by throwing down a little lets regroup and do 25 pushups and maybe next time we'll stand quietly in line and not name call does do the trick. Same thing goes for splits and stuff no one gets out until every one is in, seems to work quite well. SO not knowing the whole situatuion I can't give you an answer as to if that would make me mad.

 

[gymnut1]

I think it would make me cross so near a meet but maybe the coach is trying to make a point and is sorting out a long running problem that is affecting the longer term training atmosphere.

 

[DbacksMom75]

It is to promote a "group think" mentality so the kids realize that they are one unit and what affects one affects them all. What the above poster said is very true, if one child starts picking on another it is only a matter of time before she recruits minions to pick on the child with her. Better to send a clear message now that it will not be tolerated then to allow it to escalate the whole year.
If anything the conditioning will make them better and stronger. I would be more mad if they were being forced to do wall sits for extended periods of time or refused a water break.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

see how crazy the sport can be?

 

[DbacksMom75]

Honestly competitive cheerleading is way more cut throat and crazy then gymnastics. This sport you have pushy driven parents that want their child to be an olympian. In cheer you have crazy psycho moms that want their child to be a "star" and will do anything, say anything to get them there.
My oldest daughter had a team FALL APART because one girl decided to be the "mean girl" and target my child and one other. The coaches refused to acknowledge it and it spun out of control until a group shoving match broke out during practice between the two "cliques". The team suffered the whole year and never placed high because the kids all hated each other. If the original girl's behavior had been nipped in the bud and an example set of what behavior is expected it never would have gotten so out of control.
The levels of psycho parents go as such:
1. Pageant moms-by far the craziest
2. Cheer/Dance moms
3. Gymnastic moms
4. Soccer/Football moms

 

[All Chalked Up]

Well, I would be angry because I would have to miss bars before a competition. I think the better idea would be to have the one child condition. Then the rest of the team could realize, "well that will happen to me if I'm mean also". If there wasn't a competition that weekend, I would be mad, but understand.

 

[NGL780309]

The coach told us after practice why they had to condition so the info came directly from the source. To add more details to the story the younger girl (7) told the older girl (11), who is also the coaches sister and the other coaches daughter, that her ears were big.

First off there has not been a problem with the girls being mean to each other at all. If anything the older girl is always bossing around the younger girls and acting like she can do whatever she wants since the coach is her sister and the other her mother. Second I don't think the comment was that horrible. I don't know the other girls intention or if they were joking around and the older girl just got her feelings hurt. Half the girls were setting up bar stations and the other half were putting away vault stations. So many of the girls weren't even present for the ear comment. My child in particular was with me getting a breathing treatment because she was coughing. So it wasn't a situation where all the girls were standing around picking on one girl.

I'm a teacher and when someone says something mean my main objective is to educate the offender to think about how their comment hurt the other person and then perhaps give them a consequence. A 7 year old might not always think before they speak. I think the whole group punishment was unwarranted. Address the problem with those involved.

I'm also very surprised to hear so many coaches agree with it when in a previous thread there seemed to be a pretty strong no towards conditioning as punishment.

I for one have no problem with a group punishment being given for the majority of a group not listening or talking too much etc. This happens at the gym plenty and I've never complained. I did have a problem with this situation and two other situations. One where the coach told a girl that if she bent her arms on her backhandspring the whole group would condition and another where the girls had to do extra conditioning if they didn't help at a car wash. It's summer and the gym gave us just around 10 days notice that they were having a car wash. You had to sell $50 worth of tickets. We were leaving to go out of town, as were many other people, and paid our $50. I found out when we got back a month later that girls that didn't attend, even if they paid, had to do extra conditioning. My DD wasn't there for the extra conditioning, but I felt like that was wrong. Vacation plans are made way in advance. A child shouldn't be punished because their parent had already made other plans.

I don't think any perspective makes this situation sit well with me.

 

[10.0]

Well you were not very clear in your first post. In that situation I would not have had the entire group condition and please let me say since I am one of the coaches you speak of that posted on the not conditioning for punishment thread. I DO NOT believe in conditioning as a form of punishment, the kids may see it that way but I make it clear to them it is a re-grouping, it is really hard to mouth off and touch other kids and such when you are doing pushups. I also tell them conditioning makes them stronger and better gymnasts. Also as a coach you have to pick your battles, for me personally a girl telling another girl her ears were big would have resulted in me asking her if she thought that was a nice thing and asking if she was sorry and asking her to tell the other girl that she was sorry, then on with bars. I think it is ridiculous for your kid to have to do extra conditioning because you could not attend a car wash, especially if you also had to pay to make up for it. Your gym sounds like it does use conditioning as punishment and it sounds bad from your post. You sound really unhappy and if what you said is true you have every right to be and maybe it is time to go gym shopping.

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

I think there are instances where group conditioning as a punishment is appropriate. Not all the time, not as a general rule. Most of the time I think the offending gymnast(s) should do the conditioning.

From the additional info you have provided, I would be gym shopping. Good Luck to you and your daughter in your gym journey

 

[MdGymMom01]

Honestly competitive cheerleading is way more cut throat and crazy then gymnastics. This sport you have pushy driven parents that want their child to be an olympian. In cheer you have crazy psycho moms that want their child to be a "star" and will do anything, say anything to get them there.
My oldest daughter had a team FALL APART because one girl decided to be the "mean girl" and target my child and one other. The coaches refused to acknowledge it and it spun out of control until a group shoving match broke out during practice between the two "cliques". The team suffered the whole year and never placed high because the kids all hated each other. If the original girl's behavior had been nipped in the bud and an example set of what behavior is expected it never would have gotten so out of control.
The levels of psycho parents go as such:
1. Pageant moms-by far the craziest
2. Cheer/Dance moms
3. Gymnastic moms
4. Soccer/Football moms

I so know what you are saying Dbacksmom. Yes the cheer world can be very vicious and cut throat. I have seen it with my own eyes. And no "Worlds Ring" or "Championship Jacket" is worth putting my kid through the nastiness, cliques and jealousy of these kids and parents. No thank you.

 

[NGL780309]

I'm really not unhappy most of the time. It's just these little situations that I don't see as being right. The benefits are still outweighing the negatives at this point. I just need to vent sometimes. You know what you feel is right as a parent, but you want to know that you aren't crazy in your feelings and instincts. Plus DD is just 5. I'm not prepared to rearrange our lives to drive to another gym for a 5 year old. She could decide she's done with gym next week.

The frustrating thing about the car wash was that it wasn't the child's fault they couldn't come and it was a gym wide carwash, yet only the Level 4 coaches made the girls condition who missed. It wasn't a requirement to attend. It's not like they were told you must help or else and girls this age don't have control over their schedule.

The good thing is that my DD doesn't mind conditioning at all. She loves running in particular so she is often oblivious that she is being punished for something. They had to run the stairs too which my DD LOVES because I absolutely forbid her from playing on our stairs at home.

 

[gymcoach26]

A little bit of a side not from a coaches perspective..
I think it is very common for bars to be a kids hardest event, especially for young new team members. It's pretty typical for new level 4's to bomb on bars at their first meet. It would seem like they should practice their routines over and over to get better, but they are probably bombing because they don't have the strength and bar awareness yet. Conditioning might actually benefit their routines more than practicing routines.
The situation you described though does not sound ok with me, but I was just trying to see the bright side of the situation.

 

[NGL780309]

I agree about the conditioning part being helpful on bars. Most of them are bombing because they just don't have the skills yet. I don't think it's in any way the coaches fault, they aren't miracle workers afterall. My child in particular, while not competing, can do all the skills with the exception of going over on her mill circle lately. I don't think strength is her issue. Her issue is doing a routine and understanding that it's a routine from start to finish. She'll get on the bar and do the routine up to her shoot thru and then sit on the bar for 30 seconds while she fixes her hair or scratches her leg. Then she'll finish her routine. Or she'll do the routine, but look around after every skill to see what someone else is doing. Those that do have the skills are kind of in the same boat. They can do the skills, but need to practice doing an entire routine start to finish and simulating that feel of being in a competition. It's not like they can practice bar routines at home you know?

 

[Azgymmiemom]

Honestly competitive cheerleading is way more cut throat and crazy then gymnastics. This sport you have pushy driven parents that want their child to be an olympian. In cheer you have crazy psycho moms that want their child to be a "star" and will do anything, say anything to get them there.
My oldest daughter had a team FALL APART because one girl decided to be the "mean girl" and target my child and one other. The coaches refused to acknowledge it and it spun out of control until a group shoving match broke out during practice between the two "cliques". The team suffered the whole year and never placed high because the kids all hated each other. If the original girl's behavior had been nipped in the bud and an example set of what behavior is expected it never would have gotten so out of control.
The levels of psycho parents go as such:
1. Pageant moms-by far the craziest
2. Cheer/Dance moms
3. Gymnastic moms
4. Soccer/Football moms

You forgot a biggie...little league moms...and dads!! Whoo, boy, I have stories!! lol

On another note, I've heard of other gyms in the area that will punish all the kids with conditioning if one is late to gym...funny, seeing as most of these kids can't drive...

wonder how well it would go over if they tried to make the parents do the conditioning for getting them there late...?

 

[MdGymMom01]

On another note, I've heard of other gyms in the area that will punish all the kids with conditioning if one is late to gym...funny, seeing as most of these kids can't drive...

wonder how well it would go over if they tried to make the parents do the conditioning for getting them there late...?

Love it!!! That would teach the parents to maybe be on time for now on!!! I agree that punishing the child for being late to practice is not fair. It's NOT the kids fault. What they should do is talk to the parents about the lateness and give them the "verbal warning".

 

[mariposa]

I really, really dislike punishment to a group for the actions of one. At DDs old gym, it was very common. At her gym now, it isn't common, but it happens. I do not like it, but unless my DD complains, I just accept it as the coaching style of that particular coach. I think it is very ineffective, but I think it happens at almost every gym, I would have to take her out of this sport (which has crossed my mind MANY times) and she probably would have to stay out of every sport, so I just deal with it and listen to her on it. She knows my feelings and she also knows why some coaches think it works.

It is very frustrating when it is meet season and it seems they aren't doing things to get ready for meets. Been there, done that, it is tough. I know that at my DDs gym, even during meet season they aren't always focused on routines, routines, routines. She likes that, so it works for her. There are other gyms that are the super high scorers that are like that, it wouldn't work for my kid, she loves uptraining and conditioning and "fun days".

 

[NGL780309]

I feel the same way. My kid doesn't seem to mind so I just let it be. That's why I'm so glad to have a place like chalkbuck to vent about how wrong I think it is! It makes me feel better and then I can go back to the gym without all these negative thoughts brewing. It just helps to get it out and have someone agree with you.

I really, really dislike punishment to a group for the actions of one. At DDs old gym, it was very common. At her gym now, it isn't common, but it happens. I do not like it, but unless my DD complains, I just accept it as the coaching style of that particular coach. I think it is very ineffective, but I think it happens at almost every gym, I would have to take her out of this sport (which has crossed my mind MANY times) and she probably would have to stay out of every sport, so I just deal with it and listen to her on it. She knows my feelings and she also knows why some coaches think it works.

It is very frustrating when it is meet season and it seems they aren't doing things to get ready for meets. Been there, done that, it is tough. I know that at my DDs gym, even during meet season they aren't always focused on routines, routines, routines. She likes that, so it works for her. There are other gyms that are the super high scorers that are like that, it wouldn't work for my kid, she loves uptraining and conditioning and "fun days".

 

[Gymnasticsgirl521]

I have to say I agree with group punishment/conditioning. They are a team and they need to learn to treat each other with respect. It that requires them to condition as punishment then so be it. DD had this when girls were goofing when they were 3-4 years old. One goofed around they all had to run laps. It was a peer presure situation and now we don't have to deal with it at all.

The coach now will "pick" on someone in practice to fix their form so to speek and well if they don't step up while they are choosen the entire level has to condition extra. It has helped with team building. They team is thankful for the person to step up and it helps the bond. Mind you if you fail your team well better luck next time.

Football they are punished as a team for their mistakes. Same for ice hockey and Lacrosse. What makes gymnastics different. They are individuals competing for the good of the team.

 

[gymmomof1]

You forgot a biggie...little league moms...and dads!! Whoo, boy, I have stories!! lol

On another note, I've heard of other gyms in the area that will punish all the kids with conditioning if one is late to gym...funny, seeing as most of these kids can't drive...

wonder how well it would go over if they tried to make the parents do the conditioning for getting them there late...?

Funny you should say this, over the summer my DD coach said to the older girls who drive it will be push ups for every min. you are late and for the girls who parents drive, the parent will do the push ups haha--