WAG Choreography

[gymbeam]

I’m not sure about how much choreography affects scores, but I do wonder if affects college interest. Those college girls really entertain!

 

[mommyof1]

I don’t know anything about the scoring, but as a spectator I’ve noticed that the routines with weak choreography tend to be weaker in terms of performance as well. When the choreography looks like actual dance and fits the music well, it seems easier for the gymnast to really get into the routine and put forth maximum effort. Insipid choreography appears to be associated with sluggish performances.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

. When the choreography looks like actual dance and fits the music well, it seems easier for the gymnast to really get into the routine and put forth maximum effort.

The important part of music and coreography is it fits the gymnast and the gymnast is into it. That’s what gets them into the routine and why they put forth maximum effort.

One kid at our gym has salsa type music. She loves it her routine is awesome.

Another has music from a fairytale, very ballet like. It’s stunning.

Switch the pieces between the kids and it would be a disaster. Miss Salsa is just never going to be a ballet girl. And Miss Ballet never a salsa girl.

All things being equal skill wise. You get a judge who is more partial to salsa, the salsa kid might have an edge. Next meet you get a judge more partial to ballet, the ballet kid might have an edge.

But if their skills and tumbling are off neither is scoring well.

And its also a matter of taste. The Katelyn Ohashi routine currently trending all over. Amazing floor. Me not a fan of the music. Too many changes for my taste. Breaks up the flow of the routine. I find it distracting. And I’ve been party to all the gymmies conversations on my kids team about it. They all seem to like her last routine better because of the music. Everyone of them says as amazing as the routine is, they “like” the last one better.

 

[stillhoping]

The important part of music and coreography is it fits the gymnast

The routine dd had last year had music selected just for her and was choreographed with her mannerisms and movement style in mind. This year, she got a handed down routine and music. This year’s routine doesn’t fit her as well, but she’s really trying. There’s about a 0.3 drop in her scores, so not dramatically different, enough to go from scoring low 9s to high 8s.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The routine dd had last year had music selected just for her and was choreographed with her mannerisms and movement style in mind. This year, she got a handed down routine and music. This year’s routine doesn’t fit her as well, but she’s really trying. There’s about a 0.3 drop in her scores, so not dramatically different, enough to go from scoring low 9s to high 8s.

So she is not really invested.

Was it a timing issue as in when she moved.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Yes, I think her routine is more difficult now; and yes I do think she’s grown.

It seems like the consensus is that judges aren’t taking deductions for choreography. That’s very reassuring. At our old gym, some parents requested an outside choreographer, so then all of the optionals were required to use her. It was expensive, but the routines looked really nice. It’s good know that it really doesn’t matter what the choreography is.

It does actually matter, it's just not a major portion of the score.

 

[stillhoping]

So she is not really invested.

Was it a timing issue as in when she moved.

I think she’s really trying to sell the routine, it’s just not a good fit for her. I wouldn’t say she’s not invested. She likes her gym a lot, and has set a goal for herself to score really well. So, it’s not a timing issue in the sense that we moved at a bad time or moved too close to the start of the season. Dd was very happy to move. The gym did run out of time for choreography, so many got a recycled routine or had to use the same one again for an additional year instead of getting a new one. In that sense, it’s a timing issue, because there just wasn’t enough time for all of the kids.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I think she’s really trying to sell the routine, it’s just not a good fit for her. I wouldn’t say she’s not invested. She likes her gym a lot, and has set a goal for herself to score really well. So, it’s not a timing issue in the sense that we moved at a bad time or moved too close to the start of the season. Dd was very happy to move. The gym did run out of time for choreography, so many got a recycled routine or had to use the same one again for an additional year instead of getting a new one. In that sense, it’s a timing issue, because there just wasn’t enough time for all of the kids.

So the priority for next season is music she wants and the coreography will follow.

 

[Jazzjerz]

Some parents have even discussed getting dance private lessons on the side to at least modify the routines they have and make them on beat with the music.

If it’s to the point where they are not even on beat with the music (and that’s how it’s choreographed), then it would seem to me like there may be some issues. At the very least, it would indicate that there is not a lot of emphasis or attention to detail being paid to floor, and the finer points of performing the routines and skills.

 

[LJL07]

Lots of floor titles don’t come from the coreography, it comes from the tumbling and other skills.

You can have the most expensive and stunning coreography on the planet. And if your tumbling and leaps are not good, there might be clapping but there will be no titles.

Many a parent has sat stunned at their kids scores who had great coreography wondering why the kid with the more simply coreographed routine outscored them by a lot.

Yes and no. To give an example of both sides: one child with excellent choreography and presentation but missing a skill to get 10.0 SV got a lower score. Another child has all the necessary skills but a very hesitant presentation, some acro that will get deductions, and choreography isn't as tight as it could be. The skills are fine. That routine will also get a lower score. You really need both. And great choreography can be very simple. It doesn't have to be complicated.

 

[LJL07]

So the priority for next season is music she wants and the coreography will follow.

I really wish it were that easy. I have seen firsthand that it makes a big difference if you have a very skilled choreographer. And the judges will definitely score tight routines higher regardless of skill execution. For example, if you go to regionals where all the girls are performing strong floor routines skill-wise, the tight, crisp, well choreographed routines will definitely score higher.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Yes and no. To give an example of both sides: one child with excellent choreography and presentation but missing a skill to get 10.0 SV got a lower score. Another child has all the necessary skills but a very hesitant presentation, some acro that will get deductions, and choreography isn't as tight as it could be. The skills are fine. That routine will also get a lower score. You really need both. And great choreography can be very simple. It doesn't have to be complicated.

You missed the point.

If you hit ALL your skills cleanly and the coreography is not fancy, you will score better then a fancy stunningly coreographed routine that has missed/off skills.

Skills beat pretty dance

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I really wish it were that easy. I have seen firsthand that it makes a big difference if you have a very skilled choreographer. And the judges will definitely score tight routines higher regardless of skill execution. For example, if you go to regionals where all the girls are performing strong floor routines skill-wise, the tight, crisp, well choreographed routines will definitely score higher.

Again, you missed the point.

All things being equal skill wise. You can have the most expensive pretty coreography and music money can buy. And if the gymnast doesn’t like it and is not into it. It will not scores as well as a simpler routine the gymnast loves and is invested in.

The key being strong floor skill wise, tight, crisp. The coreography detail is splitting hairs.

And you took the comments out of context. I was responding to the poster whose gymnast daughter inherited a routine she is not invested in because of the timing of a gym change.

Of course, A change of music and coreography her daughter to something she is invested in, A new routine she has a say in and likes/loves will of course help the execution of her routine.

 

[LJL07]

Again, you missed the point.

All things being equal skill wise. You can have the most expensive pretty coreography and music money can buy. And if the gymnast doesn’t like it and is not into it. It will not scores as well as a simpler routine the gymnast loves and is invested in.

The key being strong floor skill wise, tight, crisp. The coreography detail is splitting hairs.

And you took the comments out of context. I was responding to the poster whose gymnast daughter inherited a routine she is not invested in because of the timing of a gym change.

Of course, A change of music and coreography her daughter to something she is invested in, A new routine she has a say in and likes/loves will of course help the execution of her routine.

I did not miss the point actually. Having a simple clean routine that works to the gymnast's strength is part of having good choreography. A good choreographer/floor coach will know how to tweak those things to work for the individual gymnast. If the attention to detail is not there, even if the skills are solid, the routine is not going to score as well. I have seen it with my own eyes. Even if the poster's daughter is not invested in the music or routine, if the coach or choreographer works on the attention to details and improving her presentation, it can certainly help the score go up by several tenths. It is not enough to just like the music and dance. My daughter picked out her own music this year and she likes the choreography and is therefore invested, but it is simply not working as well for her as her previous floor routine. She did not like the music at all for her previous floor routine and had no say in the music or the choreography, but the routine/choreography worked really well for her.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

My daughter picked out her own music this year and she likes the choreography and is therefore invested, but it is simply not working as well for her as her previous floor routine. She did not like the music at all for her previous floor routine and had no say in the music or the choreography, but the routine/choreography worked really well for her.

By what are you measuring "not as well". And is the coreography the only thing that has changed? No skill changes, no level change?

 

[LJL07]

By what are you measuring "not as well". And is the coreography the only thing that has changed? No skill changes, no level change?

Her score is a full point lower than it was for her previous routine. If presentation was similar to the old routine, I would expect her score to probably go down a bit due to harder skills etc., but this much lower score is consistent across meets. While I am sure she is getting some deductions on skills, and you are correct that level changes should factor in, I have had two judges look at it, and she is getting some deductions on the "dance." For example, she has some acro in her routine. She likes it, and it is fun for her, but that is just one thing that she is getting deducted on as far as the choreography. My point in responding to the post was just that both the skills and choreography matter (of course the skills are the MOST important thing, but details are important too), so I wouldn't dismiss the choreography issue as fixing itself with a routine and/or music that the gymnast "likes."

 

[Deleted member 18037]

You didn’t answer the question. Is it the same level for both routines.?

For example, she has some acro in her routine. She likes it, and it is fun for her, but that is just one thing that she is getting deducted on as far as the choreography."

Acro is not dance or coreography it’s acro.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Most of the girls on our L8 team have the same music and coreography as they did at L7. They eneded their L7 season in the mid 9s. They started their L8 season high 8s .7 or more lower. Same music, same coreography, same dance. New upgraded skills. Scores back in low 9s at last meet. Only difference new skills are getting better.

 

[LJL07]

You didn’t answer the question. Is it the same level for both routines.?



Acro is not dance or coreography it’s acro.

Yes, I did answer the question. I stated above that you are correct that you have to factor in the level change, and I would expect a drop in scores because of harder skills. That was me saying that she went up a level. I said I agreed with you that skill execution is the most important variable/component/whatever you want to call it of the routine, but I do not think it is as easy as "pick the music you want and the choreography will follow." That just has not been our experience.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Yes, I did answer the question. I stated above that you are correct that you have to factor in the level change, and I would expect a drop in scores because of harder skills. That was me saying that she went up a level. I said I agreed with you that skill execution is the most important variable/component/whatever you want to call it of the routine, but I do not think it is as easy as "pick the music you want and the choreography will follow." That just has not been our experience.

Sorry I thought you were speaking broadly about the level.

Nearly all of that point is coming from the new skills, and acro is skill.

There might be some coming from the coreography and I would say that as it’s a new routine it’s likely not as cohesive and sharp. Not because of the actual coreography but it’s likely not as smooth as she is likely still thinking about it and what comes next and it’s not muscle memory yet.