Parents Injury Update

[NY Dad]

My dd7 JO2 broker her elbow at the beginning to Jan. She spent about a week away from the gym. After that she never missed gym class. We had 6 Ortho appointments to make sure the bone didn’t slip. Each appointment I annoyed the Ortho with a list of questions (pictures and descriptions) about what she was permitted and not permitted to do. Physical therapy 3x per week then down to 2x per week. PT said was concerned b/c of no progress with how far she could bend for 3 straight weeks. I explained concern to ortho twice on the phone and both times he told me X-ray is perfect and what I described (hard stop on flexion) is normal.

I got a second opinion today. The new ortho took one look at the X-ray and said it was pretty significantly misaligned (15-20%). (The ortho said that every X-ray was the same, it wasn't set properly) DD can’t bend further because it’s bone against bone (and she can hyperextend for the same reason). He said that unless it causes pain (which it doesn’t) she can live with I and he doesn’t expect it to cause any long or short term problems.

She’s been back at the gym doing gymnastics for a little over a month but only within the last week or two looks/feels like she’s close to where she was before (strength/flexibility). She’s got some fear issues to get past but hopefully in time that will pass.

They split the girls into 2 groups. She's always been with the stronger groups until the injury. She's doing her best to earn her way back to the stronger group.

 

[rsm]

Glad to hear that she's recovering and almost back to full strength! We seem to be in a similar position where my DD broke her elbow and now has a hard stop when bending. There's no pain, but her elbow just can't bend anymore. The ortho was not worried about it at the last appt. We have another appt next week. I'm wondering if you had any other options if your DD wanted to get her arm bending normally again? DD can do just about everything, and there's no pain, so it's not a matter of function, but she does want it to be normal. I'm glad to hear they're not worried about long term function though.

 

[NY Dad]

The short answer is the hard stop in flexion.

When they regain their mobility is should be like an elastic band (and it was at first). She got to a certain point (being able to bend it to a certain point) and there's a hard stop (bone on bone). It doesn't hurt her to bend more it just physically go any further. The PT said it wasn't normal. First we went back to original Ortho (again). He said keep doing PT and it could take up to a year to get full flexion back. She went 2 more weeks but the PT said he couldn't do anything b/c there's a physical block in her arm and until he knew what it was and what he should do the PT wouldn't help. He was right. The second Ortho said that at this point PT won't help. We would need to open her arm, break it reset it with pins. No reason to do that unless she's in pain or has problems functioning. He said it won't impact her at all b/c there's not much functional need for full elbow flexion.

I'll PM you.

 

[NY Dad]

I'm wondering if you had any other options if your DD wanted to get her arm bending normally again?

I tried to PM you but I can't figure out how. Feel free to PM me.

 

[my4buffaloes]

My niece broke her leg and it was never set right. They spent 10 weeks doing everything right in order to help it heal and as soon as she tried weight bearing it started bending more and she ended up with surgery, rod and pins. Frustrating all the way around to waste all that time rather than fix it right to start with (there were issues from the get-go). She missed her entire senior year of athletics. It sounds like for your dd this will limit gymnastics if she can't straighten it. I would think one would want to get it fixed so it functions properly.

 

[2littlegymmiesmom]

Wow! Similar situation here. My YDD (8) broke her elbow when she was in Kindergarten and was in a splint/cast for 5 weeks. She didn't do any PT after coming out of the cast because she was very young and ortho didn't think it would go very well (she nearly punched the X-ray tech who was doing her follow up X-rays). We did stretches and mobility exercises at home and she transitioned back to gymnastics fine. Needless to say she never regained full motion either. Seems more or less fine when straightening it but cannot bend it all the way. She gets it to a certain point and just can't make it go any further. I always thought she was exaggerating but it sounds like Maybe she truly cannot physically move it further.

Glad your DD is doing better and getting back into gym. Thanks for sharing the story. It's shed some light on my DD's situation for me. Hope things keep moving in the right direction for your DD. It takes time but pretty soon they are back 100% as if nothing ever happened.

 

[raenndrops]

My niece broke her leg and it was never set right. They spent 10 weeks doing everything right in order to help it heal and as soon as she tried weight bearing it started bending more and she ended up with surgery, rod and pins. Frustrating all the way around to waste all that time rather than fix it right to start with (there were issues from the get-go). She missed her entire senior year of athletics. It sounds like for your dd this will limit gymnastics if she can't straighten it. I would think one would want to get it fixed so it functions properly.

It straightens... It just doesn't bend completely.

 

[NY Dad]

It sounds like for your dd this will limit gymnastics if she can't straighten it.

she can straighten it all the way, she can't bend it all the way. Will that limit gymnastics?

She gets it to a certain point and just can't make it go any further. I always thought she was exaggerating but it sounds like Maybe she truly cannot physically move it further.

You can't fake a hard stop. She relaxes her arm and when I take her arm and bend it there's literally a hard stop. Is that the same thing you're seeing?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

My dd7 JO2 broker her elbow at the beginning to Jan. She spent about a week away from the gym. After that she never missed gym class. We had 6 Ortho appointments to make sure the bone didn’t slip. Each appointment I annoyed the Ortho with a list of questions (pictures and descriptions) about what she was permitted and not permitted to do. Physical therapy 3x per week then down to 2x per week. PT said was concerned b/c of no progress with how far she could bend for 3 straight weeks. I explained concern to ortho twice on the phone and both times he told me X-ray is perfect and what I described (hard stop on flexion) is normal.

I got a second opinion today. The new ortho took one look at the X-ray and said it was pretty significantly misaligned (15-20%). (The ortho said that every X-ray was the same, it wasn't set properly) DD can’t bend further because it’s bone against bone (and she can hyperextend for the same reason). He said that unless it causes pain (which it doesn’t) she can live with I and he doesn’t expect it to cause any long or short term problems.

She’s been back at the gym doing gymnastics for a little over a month but only within the last week or two looks/feels like she’s close to where she was before (strength/flexibility). She’s got some fear issues to get past but hopefully in time that will pass.

They split the girls into 2 groups. She's always been with the stronger groups until the injury. She's doing her best to earn her way back to the stronger group.

=
Good for her, do they think it may get better? Elbows are very tricky and I love hearing stories about kids coming back. I lost a very talented gymnast years ago from a fractured elbow that took over a year to get straight. Parents got frustrated and pulled her out, (didn't blame the as I was thinking she would never get full motion back) eventually she did get full range back.

 

[gymdog]

What did you mean by hyperextend? You may want to get an evaluation with someone who knows about the functional side of gymnastics if she has one elbow with more hyperextension than the other.

 

[my4buffaloes]

she can straighten it all the way, she can't bend it all the way. Will that limit gymnastics?


You can't fake a hard stop. She relaxes her arm and when I take her arm and bend it there's literally a hard stop. Is that the same thing you're seeing?

Sorry, I misread that.

 

[2littlegymmiesmom]

You can't fake a hard stop. She relaxes her arm and when I take her arm and bend it there's literally a hard stop. Is that the same thing you're seeing?[/QUOTE]

Yes this is exactly what happens. She just gets to a certain point and then stops. It just will not bend any further. It's not too bad, she can bend it pretty far but there is definitely a hard stop at a certain point. Our ortho had her try to bend it to the point her fingers could touch her shoulder as an exercise and she defintely cannot do that with the right arm. It does not efffect her gymnastics in any way though and it's been over 2 years now since the break. During the course of daily life she barely notices it. It's only when she is actively trying to bend the arm for some specific reason that the issue pops up. Sounds like it's a common problem after breaking and elbow.

 

[NY Dad]

Sounds like it's a common problem after breaking and elbow.

Only as common as a bone not set properly (according to Ortho #2). I still don't understand how you thought she could have been exaggerating that? Both PT's we went to were concerned and said it wasn't normal.

I'll PM you later (sorry, super busy at work today)

Edited to add that I'm obviously not a doctor and not giving medical advice. I'm just passing a long the info that my Ortho gave me which makes much more sense that what I was originally told.

What did you mean by hyperextend? You may want to get an evaluation with someone who knows about the functional side of gymnastics if she has one elbow with more hyperextension than the other.

(this is not my dd, just an illustration I found online)
The side she fractured goes about 10% further than the other side. I would say a little more than it picture I found.
I would love to have it evaluated. What kind of doctor is that and where can I find them and when can we see them?

 

[2littlegymmiesmom]

Only as common as a bone not set properly (according to Ortho #2). I still don't understand how you thought she could have been exaggerating that? Both PT's we went to were concerned and said it wasn't normal.

My DD is a huge drama queen and exaggerates everything, literally everything! I broke my arm when I was 5 and never regained full mobility due to the type and location of the break. YDD knows this and I originally thought that in wanting to be like mommy she was just purposely not allowing it to move past a certain point. She would say things like "see mommy my arm is like yours" and I never wanted to force it and hurt her. As time went on I began to realize that she truly could not bend it beyond a certain point, however I assumed over time she would regain most of that mobility. I never really gave any of it a second thought since I had never regained 100% mobility after my break. I just kind of figured it happened sometimes with breaks, especially ones at joints. It doesn't affect her everyday life and it's not a huge difference from her other arm (maybe a difference of 2-3 inches). She is in PT now for a different reason but maybe I'll have him look at it one day just to see what he thinks, not that we can really do anything about it, but just out of curiosity.

 

[NY Dad]

It doesn't affect her everyday life and it's not a huge difference from her other arm (maybe a difference of 2-3 inches).

Totally agree if it doesn't effect her life it's not worth doing anything. (according to Ortho #2 no long or short term issues for my DD). but I would love to hear this from someone who specializes in gymnastics or "high level" athletes. (disclaimer, I mean the level of training not necessarily skills ). The best I was able to do was visit a very highly regarded pediatric Ortho. What do yo mean by 2-3 inches?

According to Ortho #2 the elbow bones don't remodel like other bones (for example a wrist). He said that if the same thing happened with a wrist the bone would slowly remodel and she would eventually get full wrist mobility back. With elbow fractures in kids, the bones are healed within about 5 weeks (again according to ortho #2) and after that the bones don't typically remodel. She could get more mobility after the 5 weeks point, I'm specifically referring to the hard stop (sorry if I sound like a broken record).

Yes, there are reasons a correctly set elbow fracture can result in limited mobility but the hard-stop was a red flag for both PT's that I discussed this with. I know the PT I went to was skeptical but after 2 more weeks of no progress (again my dd just always did her PT at home too) he said I was wasting time and money and I an ortho not a PT.

I know way too much about elbow fractures.

 

[rsm]

she can straighten it all the way, she can't bend it all the way. Will that limit gymnastics?

DD has gotten back all her L8 skills is training L9 skills without being to bend all the way. She's at about 130 flexion. The only thing she can't do are what she calls "chin up rocks" on the bar for conditioning because she can't hold her chin close enough to the bar to "rock". So, no, I don't think it will limit gymnastics. Her coach even said she doesn't care about the bending, as long as her arm is straight.

 

[rsm]

The short answer is the hard stop in flexion.

When they regain their mobility is should be like an elastic band (and it was at first). She got to a certain point (being able to bend it to a certain point) and there's a hard stop (bone on bone). It doesn't hurt her to bend more it just physically go any further. The PT said it wasn't normal. First we went back to original Ortho (again). He said keep doing PT and it could take up to a year to get full flexion back. She went 2 more weeks but the PT said he couldn't do anything b/c there's a physical block in her arm and until he knew what it was and what he should do the PT wouldn't help. He was right. The second Ortho said that at this point PT won't help. We would need to open her arm, break it reset it with pins. No reason to do that unless she's in pain or has problems functioning. He said it won't impact her at all b/c there's not much functional need for full elbow flexion.

I'll PM you.

Thanks! Our PT said the same. I was kind of hoping maybe there was a block that could be addressed more easily with surgery. Because DD also had/has a lot of scar tissue. But this sounds more likely because of how hard the stop is. At least we have found over the last couple of months, that there's nothing she's really restricted from doing because of it. Not even at the gym.

 

[NY Dad]

rsm, thank for sharing your experience, I find it very reassuring to hear a similar experience with on impact.

I was kind of hoping maybe there was a block that could be addressed more easily with surgery.

The ortho I went to said that "fixing it" wasn't necessary so I didn't start asking questions about the different surgery options. Also, my dd was there so I wanted to remain calm and I didn't want her to think there was something wrong with her that needed to be fixed. She was very disappointed to hear that it would never improve significantly.

 

[RAMS]

This is all very interesting. My dd 11 years old level 8 fell off bars doing a half piroette 6 weeks ago. She had a full dislocation and fracture of her elbow. She had surgery with a pin and an anchor put in elbow. She got the cast off and pin removed 4 weeks after surgery. She has 6 more weeks of no weight bearing due to the tearing of all ligaments. Surgeon said it was a severe injury. She can't straighten her arm at all. They said start mobility at her own pace. In 6 weeks we go back test mobility. Surgeon feels she will be cleared to start training. Will order PT then if needed. What exercises can she do for her elbow to help straighten if she still can't do any weight bearing on it? She does go to gym for conditioning and lower body stretching. She's determined to make level 9 just not sure it's realistic.

 

[NY Dad]

Surgeon feels she will be cleared to start training. Will order PT then if needed.

We were told the same thing but I insisted. The reason PT isn't often prescribed is b/c studies have shown will eventually fully recover regardless of PT. (waste of resources, time, cost,...)
With PT it's generally quicker, also, in our case when my dd was nervous about doing something (for example a handstand for the first time). She would do it first with PT. I've also heard anecdotal stories on CB from others that had limited improvement until they started PT. Her first appointment was about an hour after the cast was removed.

I would double check with Ortho to clarify what is/isn't okay:
Before weight bearing and/or worrying about mobility the focus was on getting some strength (fingers and wrist too) back. My dd started with...
- TheraPutty https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001763OS6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
- rubber band around fingers/thumb and stretch with fingers/thumb

I'm nervous about giving my opinion about anything else b/c I'm not a doctor and each case is different.