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Level 8 Bar Questions

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kristilyn73

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Jan 17, 2008
1,326
Minnesota
I was hoping someone could clear up some confusion for me personally.

My DD is a L8. Her routine is Kip, Cast to handstand, 1/2 pirouette, kip, Clear Hip, jump to high bar, Cast to Handstand, Giant, Giant, Layout Flyaway. She has a 10.0 start value.

Before moving up to Level 8 she was told by her coach (and I was told by other coaches on this board) that she was required by code to have the pirouette.

We have now been to several meets and I am seeing other L8's have 10.0 start values with out a pirouette, they have a Shootover. I didnt think the Shoot over was a subsitute for a pirouette.

What is the requirement?

As a second question, what is the start value for not having a pirouette? Beetle has a teammate whose routine is: Kip, Cast, Clear Hip, Clear Hip, Jump to high bar, Cast (Not to handstand), Giant, Giant, Flyaway. What is that start value? I swear I have seen it be 3 different things in 3 different meets.

Thanks in advance!
 

gymnafreak

Member
Nov 29, 2008
248
26
Minn eee sooo ta! :)
i was a level 8 three years ago, and then switched out of USAG, so the requirements might have changed since i was in it, but this is what i know.

You have to have either a pieroutte or a release move, but i think you can pick. I had just a pieroutte in my routine. The deduction for not having a requirement is either 2 or 5 tenths. (I have seen different things different places)

I'm not positive that these are right, but i'm 99% sure that a requirement is to have either a release move or a pierouetter. Hope this helped!
:)
 

gymdog

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Jul 5, 2007
5,121
L8s need an element with flight or turn (min. B). Many choose pirouette because for most gymnasts, it is easier to teach a "safe" if not beautiful, pirouette in the few months between L7 and L8. I do know some girls who never had consistent cast HSs without doing crazy stuff and did learn a straddle back or shootover faster...but the majority do pirouette and the majority of coaches plan for that. So most coaches would probably say "they need a pirouette" as they generally haven't worked on those skills long enough to throw them in a competition setting.

The special requirements (SRs) are each worth .5, and the flight/turn is an SR. There are also value parts (i.e. A, B, C skills) and L8s need 4 As and 4 Bs. Whether she met the value parts would really depend on the angle of the clear hips. If she isn't getting B credit then she'd be missing a value part and an SR (min. B element from groups 3, 6, 7). The value part might depend on the casts, they don't have to be totally hit HS to get B credit...if she's close she might have gotten it at some meets, or she might have gotten B credit for one of the clear hips and fulfilled the SR but still missing a B (.3 off SV), etc.
 

gym law mom

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Dec 23, 2006
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Kristilyn- My gymmie does the baile(aka shoot over etc) and that does fullfill the SR of 180 degree change of direction since there is a 1/2 twist as the gymnast goes from high bar to low bar. Her team is divided as 3 do the pirouette and 3 do the baile. I have also been perplexed watching 2 meets now at girls having no hs and at least the judges are showing a 10.0 SV.

I did see a group from one gym and none had any change of direction or flight skills(basically did a nice L7 routine) and the SV shown was a 9.2. Don't know if thats correct or not though.
 

gymkat

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Jun 24, 2008
691
I have also been perplexed watching 2 meets now at girls having no hs and at least the judges are showing a 10.0 SV.

I did see a group from one gym and none had any change of direction or flight skills(basically did a nice L7 routine) and the SV shown was a 9.2. Don't know if thats correct or not though.

I always had my 10.0 SV in L8 and very rarely hit a cast handstand. I did a straddle back and clear hip giant giant flyaway.

The SV for a routine missing a flight/change of direction sounds right if the girls were not casting to handstand and were therefore missing a B.
 

gymgymgymnast08

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Dec 8, 2007
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My level 8 bar routine is kip clear hip kip squat on straddle back kip squat on kip cast ( not to handstand) giant giant flyaway. I have a 10.0 start value
 

gymdog

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Jul 5, 2007
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Kristilyn- My gymmie does the baile(aka shoot over etc) and that does fullfill the SR of 180 degree change of direction since there is a 1/2 twist as the gymnast goes from high bar to low bar.

The SR is just flight/turn min. B (like a long axis turn aka pirouette or blind change...although I guess with the changes being made to USAG optionals the blind change might not be allowable in 8 anymore, not that it's common anyway). A shootover is a release move though it does have a turn...you don't need a half turn/change of direction in L8, just a skill with flight or turn. You could do a straddle back, a toe shoot to high bar catch, or even a cut catch (if those are still Bs, don't know). Shootovers are just becoming more popular as "the first release" than straddle backs, especially coinciding with the "extra wide" spread bars from my experience. When I was 12 or 13, there were a lot of straddle backs in L8 seemingly compared to today. Cast-swing releases are probably now more realistic for a lot of gymnasts. Certainly for me (I'm not very tall, although probably taller than the average L8) I find it easier to do a pak salto than a straddle back on farther settings, to be honest. Plenty of room to swing and you get the kip cast back swing to generate swing power. But I don't have a great front swing either. There are a lot of people about my age still doing straddle back who just adjusted it farther and farther, but no one at the gyms I went to is teaching it to 10-13 year old beginning optionals today. They're teaching shootover and pak saltos.
 

gym law mom

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Dec 23, 2006
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Of course next year with the change in the COP, the shootover will not be allowed in L8 since it is a C level skill. Looks like even though the pirouette is technically a C, its being given a pass to fullfill the SR. There are not going to be that many skills to choose from for 2009 L8 to fullfill that SR.
 

gymkat

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Former Gymnast
Judge
Jun 24, 2008
691
You can still do bails next year as long as they don't come from a handstand or finish in a handstand. The non-handstand version of a bail is a B.
 
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