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So what’s happening?

Annikins

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Ah, ok, I hadn't seen that, I thought it was supposed to be Jan/Feb. Hopefully things will be better by June.

What about compulsory 3 and national grades? Will they be done regionally do you think?
 

GymBeamRisky

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Ah, ok, I hadn't seen that, I thought it was supposed to be Jan/Feb. Hopefully things will be better by June.

What about compulsory 3 and national grades? Will they be done regionally do you think?
Matthew Greenwood, Events Director, said: "We were very much looking forward to the British Gymnastics events programme starting again after these past twelve months without any gymnastics events, but the safety of the gymnasts has been and will continue to be the number one priority. We have made difficult decisions about cancelling and postponing events throughout 2020 and in to 2021”

Well it has to be one rule for all so at the very earliest I would suspect a June date. At least that means with PCR test results in hand if we so chose some of us can enjoy an Easter holiday overseas for the first time in years and have some relax time to think things over....every cloud ...as the saying goes.
 
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Jenny

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Ah, ok, I hadn't seen that, I thought it was supposed to be Jan/Feb. Hopefully things will be better by June.

What about compulsory 3 and national grades? Will they be done regionally do you think?
Yes they are being done in region with no national finals this year. Vol finals are planned for the end of the year though. I think it is all very sensible.
 
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Annikins

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Wow, if compulsories aren't until June it would be hard to do another grade in the autumn though. We didn't have anything settled but it was a possibility to do comp 3 in spring then comp 2 in autumn to 'catch up' to her age group a bit...

I know it can't be helped... it's just so frustrating!
 

GymBeamRisky

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It’s all frustrating , such a pity BG were not able to hold back a bit before making decisions on some events that could in theory be rescheduled later in the year such as national finals etc. Nothing is certain but with the great news of an approved vaccine etc things are starting to look quite optimistic and I therefore have an uneasy feeling BG are “jumping the gun” just a little bit early with their decision In writing off so much of the National schedule for next year. Ironically we are being told via this forum that regional events are likely to take place but as is and has always been the case the gymnasts and their parents will be the last to know of any relevant dates via official channels so they can plan ahead. We need a little more transparency please, while I am extremely grateful for the “advance” information provided by others on this forum why should it be even be necessary to be using forums such as this when our individual gymnastic clubs via BG should be keeping us up to date with decisions that effect all of us and our family planning going forward. Contrary to others I do not actually think that today in early December 2020 the decisions regarding the 2021 season made by BG make any sense whatsoever. What it does show is an organisation that is incapable of a little flexibility to deal with the eventualities of a new year. There really is nothing to be very cheerful about in regard to British Gymnastics right now, they really should have been flexible enough to at least keep the door a little open regarding at least some events. I fear that following what has been a terrible year for all sports BG will see a bigger fallout of young talent than most next year due to their totally inflexible approach. Trust me, you really do need to keep young hopes alive, nobody will blame anybody if what might actually be possible later in the year becomes impossible due to covid.
 

Jenny

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It’s all frustrating , such a pity BG were not able to hold back a bit before making decisions on some events that could in theory be rescheduled later in the year such as national finals etc. Nothing is certain but with the great news of an approved vaccine etc things are starting to look quite optimistic and I therefore have an uneasy feeling BG are “jumping the gun” just a little bit early with their decision In writing off so much of the National schedule for next year. Ironically we are being told via this forum that regional events are likely to take place but as is and has always been the case the gymnasts and their parents will be the last to know of any relevant dates via official channels so they can plan ahead. We need a little more transparency please, while I am extremely grateful for the “advance” information provided by others on this forum why should it be even be necessary to be using forums such as this when our individual gymnastic clubs via BG should be keeping us up to date with decisions that effect all of us and our family planning going forward. Contrary to others I do not actually think that today in early December 2020 the decisions regarding the 2021 season made by BG make any sense whatsoever. What it does show is an organisation that is incapable of a little flexibility to deal with the eventualities of a new year. There really is nothing to be very cheerful about in regard to British Gymnastics right now, they really should have been flexible enough to at least keep the door a little open regarding at least some events. I fear that following what has been a terrible year for all sports BG will see a bigger fallout of young talent than most next year due to their totally inflexible approach. Trust me, you really do need to keep young hopes alive, nobody will blame anybody if what might actually be possible later in the year becomes impossible due to covid.
Wow I'm sorry I respectfully don't agree with your comments. We have been told that the tier system will be in place until end March. Competitions are unable to take place until later than that. Possibly much later. They are allowing grades to be skipped, they have put 2 opportunities in for compulsory 2 and 1 to go ahead next year and have rescheduled the British for the Autumn so that girls who missed it in 2020 have every chance to compete in 2021.

I think the only BG national finals missing next year are compulsory 4 and 3 and national grades finals. Unless I forgot some I think all the others are in. I think that is not too bad really considering the crazy situation we are in. I think they have been very flexible really trying to keep everyone safe yet have opportunity.

I think large venues have to be decided and booked a long way in advance. Maybe that is why they have to make decisions early. Also from a safety point of view they have stated they want coaches to know a long way out when the competitions are likely to be so they can plan and train appropriately for the competitions ahead. From a coaching point of view that is important and necessary.

I'm curious what you thought they had been totally inflexible about? I've been quite impressed how they have thought ahead and tried to sort out everything.

I do appreciate some parents feel they don't get the information from their clubs that they would like. That isn't really BG's fault.
 
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GymBeamRisky

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Wow I’m sorry respectfully also. To satisfy your curiosity I am once again concerned about BG inflexibility towards ,what by now must be considered, their” 2nd tier citizens” on what is misguidingly called the “national path” . Both parents and their children (and in the early days some innocent clubs) are led to believe that this is a softer less extreme route to the British Gymnastic finals but in harsh reality at the final hurdle known as the Challenge cup the qualification scores are set so high as to be near impossible to gain admission to the “elite” club that BG seem to be so unequivocally obsessed with concerning the British Championships.. So impossible in fact that many of the compulsory gymnasts that have earned their right to automatic qualification would also not qualify should they be so unfortunate enough to be given the same great deal that our long serving national girls have. It would indeed be an interesting experiment to see how many of the compulsory girls would actually qualify under an open competition in the Challenge Cup...judging by scores in the actual British it would seem quite a few would not make the grade?

So with the aforementioned in hand then of course if you are a parent or coach of a compulsory or British “passage of right”gymnast you would quite naturally be “ impressed at “how they have thought ahead and tried in their earnest to sort everything out for the “promised few”.

However I am the long suffering parent of a national gymnast who started at the sensible age of 7 years at a club that had decided the national path was more appropriate to its internal economics and most certainly at the time also thought that it was in fact a “real” alternative to the compulsory route offering a realistic chance of making the British Championships. Unfortunately as I have already made clear we need to take away the “realistic” part of the “chance “ in the aforementioned statement.

So what do our national girls who in parallel with all others after a year of nothing have to look forward to in 2021?

Well first the good news, I have scoured the net and discovered that the almost impossible British qualification vehicle known as the Challenge Shield is indeed on the BG menu for early November. I will accept this is at least as a consolation prize when both the English Championships which are a great opportunity for the national path girls and the National grade finals have been written off for the entire year despite the most encouraging signs regarding vaccinations for covid that have made so many of us revert from pessimism to optimism for the first time in almost a year. If only BG were showing that optimism across the whole board, perhaps they are still in deep depression about other matters more close to home?

I am also totally miffed about why BG are giving the go ahead for regional grade events ( due to safety presumably??) but cancelling the national finals. I was fortunate enough to travel to Fenton Manor for my daughters National Grades final last year and believe me the venue and audience space is far larger than my region where you are lucky enough to get a seat with standing room only left in the wings. At Fenton Manor there is seating for about a thousand or more. We sat pre covid with space all around us...as with all regions there are 5 gymnasts in team per grade....the number of parents from our region present....5....one per gymnast...of course our regions total parents and family was at the bottom end but trust me there were acres of space available to pick your spot....National Grades are not the British Championships after all are they? Plenty of room to be flexible later in the year should by an unimaginably freak of nature the vaccine prove to be a false hope and the summer weather conditions have not helped as they did this year.

In short given the news regarding forthcoming vaccines and tests BG should be showing more flexibility, faith ,thought and optimism concerning all events. If they are willing to cancel the National finals can you explain why in the same breath they are willing to to authorise and endorse the regional grades? Maybe it’s just down to being loss adverse in booking venues and of course as everybody knows if you are not “compulsory” you really are in the eyes of BG just second or third tier gymnastic citizens not worthy of any special consideration....pun most certainly intended..
 

GymBeamRisky

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Apr 25, 2018
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Wow I'm sorry I respectfully don't agree with your comments. We have been told that the tier system will be in place until end March. Competitions are unable to take place until later than that. Possibly much later. They are allowing grades to be skipped, they have put 2 opportunities in for compulsory 2 and 1 to go ahead next year and have rescheduled the British for the Autumn so that girls who missed it in 2020 have every chance to compete in 2021.

I think the only BG national finals missing next year are compulsory 4 and 3 and national grades finals. Unless I forgot some I think all the others are in. I think that is not too bad really considering the crazy situation we are in. I think they have been very flexible really trying to keep everyone safe yet have opportunity.

I think large venues have to be decided and booked a long way in advance. Maybe that is why they have to make decisions early. Also from a safety point of view they have stated they want coaches to know a long way out when the competitions are likely to be so they can plan and train appropriately for the competitions ahead. From a coaching point of view that is important and necessary.

I'm curious what you thought they had been totally inflexible about? I've been quite impressed how they have thought ahead and tried to sort out everything.

I do appreciate some parents feel they don't get the information from their clubs that they would like. That isn't really
Wow I'm sorry I respectfully don't agree with your comments. We have been told that the tier system will be in place until end March. Competitions are unable to take place until later than that. Possibly much later. They are allowing grades to be skipped, they have put 2 opportunities in for compulsory 2 and 1 to go ahead next year and have rescheduled the British for the Autumn so that girls who missed it in 2020 have every chance to compete in 2021.

I think the only BG national finals missing next year are compulsory 4 and 3 and national grades finals. Unless I forgot some I think all the others are in. I think that is not too bad really considering the crazy situation we are in. I think they have been very flexible really trying to keep everyone safe yet have opportunity.

I think large venues have to be decided and booked a long way in advance. Maybe that is why they have to make decisions early. Also from a safety point of view they have stated they want coaches to know a long way out when the competitions are likely to be so they can plan and train appropriately for the competitions ahead. From a coaching point of view that is important and necessary.

I'm curious what you thought they had been totally inflexible about? I've been quite impressed how they have thought ahead and tried to sort out everything.

I do appreciate some parents feel they don't get the information from their clubs that they would like. That isn't really BG's fault.
Wow I’m sorry respectfully also. To satisfy your curiosity I am once again concerned about BG inflexibility towards ,what by now must be considered, their” 2nd tier citizens” on what is misguidingly called the “national path” . Both parents and their children (and in the early days some innocent clubs) are led to believe that this is a softer less extreme route to the British Gymnastic finals but in harsh reality at the final hurdle known as the Challenge cup the qualification scores are set so high as to be near impossible to gain admission to the “elite” club that BG seem to be so unequivocally obsessed with concerning the British Championships.. So impossible in fact that many of the compulsory gymnasts that have earned their right to automatic qualification would also not qualify should they be so unfortunate enough to be given the same great deal that our long serving national girls have. It would indeed be an interesting experiment to see how many of the compulsory girls would actually qualify under an open competition in the Challenge Cup...judging by scores in the actual British it would seem quite a few would not make the grade?

So with the aforementioned in hand then of course if you are a parent or coach of a compulsory or British “passage of right”gymnast you would quite naturally be “ impressed at “how they have thought ahead and tried in their earnest to sort everything out for the “promised few”.

However I am the long suffering parent of a national gymnast who started at the sensible age of 7 years at a club that had decided the national path was more appropriate to its internal economics and most certainly at the time also thought that it was in fact a “real” alternative to the compulsory route offering a realistic chance of making the British Championships. Unfortunately as I have already made clear we need to take away the “realistic” part of the “chance “ in the aforementioned statement.

So what do our national girls who in parallel with all others after a year of nothing have to look forward to in 2021?

Well first the good news, I have scoured the net and discovered that the most impossible of British qualification vehicles commonly known as the Challenge Cup is indeed on the BG menu for early November. I will accept this is at least as a consolation prize when both the English Championships which are a great opportunity for the national path girls and the National grade finals have been written off for the entire year despite the most encouraging signs regarding vaccinations for covid that have made so many of us revert from pessimism to optimism for the first time in almost a year. If only BG were showing that optimism across the whole board, however I will forgive them, perhaps they are still in deep depression about other matters more close to home?

I am also totally miffed about why BG are giving the go ahead for regional grade events ( due to safety presumably??) but cancelling the national finals. I was fortunate enough to travel to Fenton Manor for my daughters National Grades final last year and believe me the venue and audience space is far larger than my region where you are lucky enough to get a seat with standing room only left in the wings. At Fenton Manor there is seating for about a thousand or more. We sat pre covid with space all around us...as with all regions there are 5 gymnasts in team per grade....the number of parents from our region present....5....one per gymnast...of course our regions total parents and family was at the bottom end but trust me there were acres of space available to pick your spot....National Grades are not the British Championships after all are they? Plenty of room to be flexible later in the year should by an unimaginably freak of nature the vaccine prove to be a false hope and the summer weather conditions have not helped as they did this year.

In short given the news regarding forthcoming vaccines and tests BG should be showing more flexibility, faith ,thought and optimism concerning all events. If they are willing to cancel the National finals can you explain why in the same breath they are willing to to authorise and endorse the regional grades? Maybe it’s just down to being loss adverse in booking venues and of course as everybody knows if you are not “compulsory” you really are in the eyes of BG just second or third tier gymnastic citizens not worthy of any special consideration....pun most certainly intended..
 

Learning Parent GB

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Basically compulsory, national and regional grades will all be done close to home after the tier restrictions end. Same situation for everyone in the first half of the year.

In the second half of the year when they hope things will be safer, they hope to have voluntary finals for compulsory path gymnasts. This has always been the same - they have an extra chance for a national final.

In addition, instead of cancelling the British they have postponed it until later in the year so that is showing flexibility to avoid cancelling something.

The issue over the Challenge Cup route is an ongoing one and not really relevant to covid in my mind. It looks like there will be no opportunity to qualify through Challenge to the 2021 British Champs, so very disappointing for those gymnasts. But they will be busy safely preparing for the 2021 Challenge Cup and hopefully that will be their time to shine this autumn. I don't see any other way around it.

I'm not usually one to praise BG, but I think knowing competition times months in advance is important for safe planning and preparation of gymnasts. Given that there is still no spotting or use of pits allowed, I think this helps for sensible pacing in the lead up to these competitions.

To put it in context I have a Challenge Cup gymnast who has finished national grades. Just being allowed to use the pits will cause major excitement for her. :)
 
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Jenny

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Sep 17, 2012
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Wow I’m sorry respectfully also. To satisfy your curiosity I am once again concerned about BG inflexibility towards ,what by now must be considered, their” 2nd tier citizens” on what is misguidingly called the “national path” . Both parents and their children (and in the early days some innocent clubs) are led to believe that this is a softer less extreme route to the British Gymnastic finals but in harsh reality at the final hurdle known as the Challenge cup the qualification scores are set so high as to be near impossible to gain admission to the “elite” club that BG seem to be so unequivocally obsessed with concerning the British Championships.. So impossible in fact that many of the compulsory gymnasts that have earned their right to automatic qualification would also not qualify should they be so unfortunate enough to be given the same great deal that our long serving national girls have. It would indeed be an interesting experiment to see how many of the compulsory girls would actually qualify under an open competition in the Challenge Cup...judging by scores in the actual British it would seem quite a few would not make the grade?

So with the aforementioned in hand then of course if you are a parent or coach of a compulsory or British “passage of right”gymnast you would quite naturally be “ impressed at “how they have thought ahead and tried in their earnest to sort everything out for the “promised few”.

However I am the long suffering parent of a national gymnast who started at the sensible age of 7 years at a club that had decided the national path was more appropriate to its internal economics and most certainly at the time also thought that it was in fact a “real” alternative to the compulsory route offering a realistic chance of making the British Championships. Unfortunately as I have already made clear we need to take away the “realistic” part of the “chance “ in the aforementioned statement.

So what do our national girls who in parallel with all others after a year of nothing have to look forward to in 2021?

Well first the good news, I have scoured the net and discovered that the most impossible of British qualification vehicles commonly known as the Challenge Cup is indeed on the BG menu for early November. I will accept this is at least as a consolation prize when both the English Championships which are a great opportunity for the national path girls and the National grade finals have been written off for the entire year despite the most encouraging signs regarding vaccinations for covid that have made so many of us revert from pessimism to optimism for the first time in almost a year. If only BG were showing that optimism across the whole board, however I will forgive them, perhaps they are still in deep depression about other matters more close to home?

I am also totally miffed about why BG are giving the go ahead for regional grade events ( due to safety presumably??) but cancelling the national finals. I was fortunate enough to travel to Fenton Manor for my daughters National Grades final last year and believe me the venue and audience space is far larger than my region where you are lucky enough to get a seat with standing room only left in the wings. At Fenton Manor there is seating for about a thousand or more. We sat pre covid with space all around us...as with all regions there are 5 gymnasts in team per grade....the number of parents from our region present....5....one per gymnast...of course our regions total parents and family was at the bottom end but trust me there were acres of space available to pick your spot....National Grades are not the British Championships after all are they? Plenty of room to be flexible later in the year should by an unimaginably freak of nature the vaccine prove to be a false hope and the summer weather conditions have not helped as they did this year.

In short given the news regarding forthcoming vaccines and tests BG should be showing more flexibility, faith ,thought and optimism concerning all events. If they are willing to cancel the National finals can you explain why in the same breath they are willing to to authorise and endorse the regional grades? Maybe it’s just down to being loss adverse in booking venues and of course as everybody knows if you are not “compulsory” you really are in the eyes of BG just second or third tier gymnastic citizens not worthy of any special consideration....pun most certainly intended..
I'm busy at school today but 4 points to add

The English is not British Gymnastics it is English Gymnastics, different body so you need to criticize them for cancelling it not BG.
Having the vaccine mean you are still able to pass covid on to others and it will take months to roll out the vaccine to everyone. Mixing gymnasts, coaches and judges from far and wide across the country from different tiers is probably still not advisable this summer.
Totally agree with you about regional competitions being standing room only etc etc. However I'm sure this will not be the case this year.
Either there will be no audience or limited audience say 1 per gymnast , only the round competing in the venue at the time. Every region will have to risk assess their competitions for covid and find appropriate measures.
I'm not always a massive fan of BG but in this case I feel they are doing their best to allow a limited variety of levels of competitions to go ahead under very difficult circumstances. Club grades in club, regional grades , national grades and compulsory 5,4 and 3 in region, compulsory 2 and 1, challenge, espoirs and British at National level.
If you are unhappy at not having a national final this year for National Grades but are already competing at the English and Challenge why not do compulsory 2 and 1 this year? Then you will get 2 national competitions, still be able to do Challenge cup if it falls before you pass compulsory 1 and then you can go straight to the British in 2022. I would see that as an opportunity. Passing compulsory 2 and 1 is more accessible than getting a really high score at Challenge. And from this year you won't be able to score out at Challenge to the British it is going to be a separate competition anyway. I would definitely go for it and Good Luck!
 
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Learning Parent GB

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Ooh now you've got me intrigued Jenny. I knew they were introducing the FIG Challenge Cup and the Classic Challenge this year, but didn't know that you couldn't use the FIG Challenge Cup to qualify for the British. Any idea when more details about this will be released? I can only see the September technical update.
 

Jenny

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Ooh now you've got me intrigued Jenny. I knew they were introducing the FIG Challenge Cup and the Classic Challenge this year, but didn't know that you couldn't use the FIG Challenge Cup to qualify for the British. Any idea when more details about this will be released? I can only see the September technical update.
The Challenge cup will be fig and will have a qualification element to the British. The Classic Challenge will be on a modified code and won't have a qualification to the British. So they have split the existing competition into two to reflect its dual purpose - I suspect that there will be higher qualification score to enter the FIG one than the modified one and most gymnasts will end up at the modified Challenge.
 

Learning Parent GB

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The Challenge cup will be fig and will have a qualification element to the British. The Classic Challenge will be on a modified code and won't have a qualification to the British. So they have split the existing competition into two to reflect its dual purpose - I suspect that there will be higher qualification score to enter the FIG one than the modified one and most gymnasts will end up at the modified Challenge.
Thanks for the clarification. That is as I understood it. I thought it might have changed again for a minute!
(I have an academic curiosity at this stage. Growing and GCSEs and no spotting make the thought of getting back to that standard seem a million miles away to my gymnast at the moment. But you are allowed the occasional dream :) )