WAG What does it take to make a GREAT gymnast?

[mom2557]

I believe it takes a trio parent/coach/gymnast. The parent needs believe in the gymnast and the coach and be willing to make sacrifices. The coach needs to know what they are doing, want to do what they are doing and have a successful relationship with the gymnast and parent. The gymnast needs to want it - want it as much as they want to breath. It's a very fine balance one which often seems almost impossible to maintain.

 

[bookworm]

I believe it takes a trio parent/coach/gymnast. The parent needs believe in the gymnast and the coach and be willing to make sacrifices. The coach needs to know what they are doing, want to do what they are doing and have a successful relationship with the gymnast and parent. The gymnast needs to want it - want it as much as they want to breath. It's a very fine balance one which often seems almost impossible to maintain.

This is it in a nutshell...when I first signed my oldest up for gymnastics , it was at a small local gym because I had no idea about the sport. She was there a year when the owner pulled me aside and said "you need to move her to a gym that can maximize her talent"...I was shocked and dumbfounded.....where to go and was she really that good? We went to the next gym on the advice of the first and she was fast tracked through the levels and qualifying to elite so kudos to our original gym for seeing something in her and knowing that she had to move on...

Our greatest coach came as our last coach, and I don't know that I would've known how great she was or her talents if I hadn't been in the sport for a while, and she was 2 hours from our house so there was that. Through a myriad of circumstances, at which point we were also friends, I asked her about taking on other level 10s "who were interested in your gym" and we were with that gym for the last 5 years. She had elites, NCAA gymnasts who were very successful and a great but smaller team of 10s, all with a positive spin! Imagine!

But as mom2557 points out, it was always a fine balance between my girls, us and her coaches for over 15 years..

 

[Deleted member 14190]

For the record thia thread was more about the traits of great gymnasts and the coaches that have developed them. Great defined as successful level 10 and above.

I feel achieving level 10 is a huge accomplishment.

Several factors, many leading back to the parents and coaches are part of raising the probability. Getting a kid to 10 and getting a kid to graduate high school as a 10 are very difficult. Then you factor in getting them on a college team and it gets even more Difficult... I will try and explain later. Have to go coach.

 

[John]

Can't wait to hear more.

 

[CoachAlex]

This is an interesting question - I guess the first question is how are you defining "great"?

I'm assuming, since you mentioned homeschooling, etc. we can define "great" as "elite" (just for this purpose). So, what does it take to make an elite gymnast, or any elite athlete: you need some talent, you need a coach that is good for you, you need a support system who has the same goals as you (besides coaches, this includes family, teachers, doctors, PTs, chiropractors, etc). The coach-athlete relationship is important - they need to trust EACH OTHER - it is not a one way street.

For the athlete, yes, talent is helpful, but as a coach I have often found that the extremely talented athletes (you know, the ones who pick up skills instantly and never have to work hard) do not always like/love the sport - they do it because they are good at it, not because they enjoy it. And they tend to be the athletes who really struggle at the higher levels when things STOP coming easily. So talent is helpful, but you need an athlete who is willing to work hard, not just on the big things, but on the little things - the athletes who do the extra stretching/strength because they know it will help them. The ones who LISTEN TO THEIR BODY if they are sick, tired, hurt, injured and adjust their workouts accordingly or take the day off. And when they do get injured, they do what the doctors and PTs tell them to do. For higher level athletes, especially as they get older, the pre-hab exercises to PREVENT injuries are just as important as getting the big skills, or hitting the big workouts. No, you don't have to give up your childhood, but yes, you will have to make choices and all of them will impact your athletic career.

For the coach I know you all think that you need to have a well known coach - that is like having "natural talent" it is helpful, but not required. Look at the most recent Olympic Team - both Aimee Boreman and MAggie Haney were coaching their FIRST OLYMPIANS. If you have heard/read any interviews with Boreman, you would know that she actually turned down invitations to camps at the ranch when Simone was younger because she knew how good Simone was and knew that the camps completely stressed her out and didn't show her true ability.

Being a high level athlete is a lot of work - for the athlete as well as their family - what we see on tv is the end result of that work all packaged up nice and pretty. You don't really see what it actually takes to get there. So to be a great athlete you have to be resilient, you have to know that you are going to fail a lot before you succeed and you have to realize that you learn more from the failures and the bad days than you do from the good ones. Attaining a goal that you set is huge and amazing - the work that it takes to get there is hard, and can be tedious and boring, but you do what you need to do to accomplish what you set out to do.

 

[John]

Great stuff. Thanks. More please.

 

[kecks]

you definitly need lots of talent. no elite athlete in any sport ever was or is an average human being genetically. speed kills. you are born with it or not. so do endurance und coordination to a lesser degree (can be improved more with lots of training but the individual's limits are firmly set by geentics).

 

[honu]

I have no knowledge about "great" in terms of elite level, but for getting to level 10 and competing through high school I feel the gym environment and coaching personalities can play a large role. Most high school teenagers want to enjoy some social life outside of gym. This is true no matter how dedicated the gymnast or how much they love gymnastics. Friends become extremely important at that age and so does being more independent. I think when the gymnasts knows they have the ability and freedom to choose days off for important events and the coaches are supportive of letting them be teenagers, you get kids staying with the sport through high school and for some that means reaching level 10. Our coaches are excited and happy for the girls when they go to a homecoming dance or attend a special event. For the most part the girls are selective about missed days and few take advantage of the system. The girls want to be at the gym, but they also know they have control to make choices for themselves and to do so without guilt or criticism. Not sure how much of a role that environment plays, but I do think it helps keep the older girls in the sport which allows more girls to reach level 10. We also have team bonding activities outside of gym and the coaches do work to include some fun in week. This year we have about 18 girls competing level 9 and level 10. Most are high school aged and some are a bit younger.

 

[John]

Added this to my knowledge base. Keep the thoughts coming. Maybe we can learn what we need to support and grow our gymnasts.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

First off, I apologize in advance for rambling on and all the errors…


I can only speak for myself and what we do as a program to increase the odds of kids making it to L10 and then College. Because what you need to do as a parent and a program is to eliminate as many things as possible that will reduce the odds.

As a program we have recognized several things that reduce odds and adopted guidelines to eliminate them.

First off, who am I and what has our program done. A bit of history about our program. Several years ago, we were “that” program. “My DD is at a program with great compulsory but they are new and have no upper level kids”. Yep, that was us and frankly every program in the country at some point. The parents were concerned that we didn’t have the ability to get our kids to 10 and of course… college as well. It didn’t help that a nearby gym was telling everyone that they were the only gym around that can do this…. Yes that really happens in our sport… And I will tell you what I tell everyone, NO GYM has exclusivity on who a college looks at or signs… You as a gymnast/Parent have the tools to get yourself / child noticed THE END… We also heard “My DD has no one to look up to, they don’t have upper levels” hog wash…. All that matters is will my DD make it from compulsory to L10? Then will she last ? The end… Remember if you DD has no one to look up to, then she is at the top and is getting all the attention.



Over the years we have had a very young team and have brought them up to L10 at different rates. One gymnast was a L10 at 6th grade, while the other was a L10 at 9th grade, while another was a L10 at 11th… and so on. When they are ready they are ready. That’s a no brainer. But the hard part is keeping them in the sport. PERIOD.. How are my kids doing?

Here is a break down of our L10’s

3 have made it to college (one was a full ride, one turned down offers to walk on at UCLA, the other was a walk on to whoever would take her! )., Now that may not seem like many, but most of you are looking to hear from “that gym” that didn’t have anything and evolved to something. Well that us. Also remember we can’t get kids to college, (nor can your gym), until they graduate! J What about our existing kids? 5 of our current L 10’s have accepted verbals for Full Athletic Scholarship, 1 accepted a partial to the school of her dreams, 1 accepted a walk on to the school of her dreams. YAY! Because several years ago I was sweating it out thinking, “my god when will my kids get offers”…. And now we have to keep them in the sport and make sure that they don’t lose the spot! It never ends! J


How did we do it? And what did we eliminate or change? I will post these separate... It’s going to take me some time to write it all down! Please understand that I am not looking to debate our tactics here, this is what we do and in my opinion why we are 1 of only 7 teams nationwide with 10 or more Level 10’s on our team who were raised from compulsory level. (thank you Chalkwarrior for doing that study). I will post more this week. But leave you with the Three biggest killers

1. Loss of interest
2. Fear
3. Injury

All three of these have multiple sub categories and are intertwined by parenting. More later. Gotta enjoy my only day off.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Okay, apologies again for all the errors and run on sentences… and rambling. But it’s just a lot to cover and I am not a good writer.
I am going to start with the biggest subject which is fear.

Fear is a wide open swath of issues that can be interpreted differently. My definition of fear is “typical fear of any skill that eats away at the gymnast desire to conquer it”. Example, BHS on beam, “tummy hurts, back hurts, tired don’t want to do gymnastics anymore”. Typically we can just sit down with the child and find out what is bothering them and tell them it’s okay to be afraid and we will help them overcome fears.. or find another trick! It is also common to have fear if you don’t have the basics for the skill. We talk to the parents and ask that they ignore it and let us work it out. This will help us in reducing the risk of anxiety and Fear Issues. We do private lessons for fear, but not for “fear issues” .

A “Fear Issue” would be balking before or during a trick (usually an existing trick). This is a different animal. Always keep in mind that anxiety is the ultimate fuel for spreading fear issues so everything we do is to eliminate Anxiety and/or stop the fear issue at inception.

How do we do that? We learn from our mistakes, implement change and educate coaches and parents. The end result is less issues , however a total elimination of fear issues is not feasible. In other words, we are reducing our odds and increasing longevity.


What could cause fear issues and are common denominators.

*Vestibular issues (growth spurt) are a culprit for that first couple of balks after that anxiety takes over.

*Problems at home

*Problems at school

*Nervous child

*Nervous parent

*Nervous coach!

*Excessive parental viewing

*Parental pressure

*Excessive coaching pressure (asking the kid to do things that are not feasible in time frame allowed). Aka Pushing a child too fast

*A coach freaking out on a kid with fear issues will absolutely cause others in the group to catch the fear bug….


You will notice that most with the exception of Vestibular issues, all are either preventable or workable. And most importantly all of these examples will become fuel for anxiety.
Again, I am not here to debate what we do, I was asked to share this, so here it is. Our mission is to eliminate as much anxiety or potential anxiety as possible.


So how do we as a coaching staff try and stop fear issues from starting (notice I said try).

We do several things, but please note that Once the child becomes “self aware” of the fear issue it is difficult to deal with. So lets back up to that first balk.
The first thing we did in the gym was to adopt a 2 balk rule for skills the kids already have. Now the kids have no idea this is a rule because it’s a rule the coaches follow. The rule is during the same workout (a skill they already have , Example; running down the runway). First balk we ignore, second balk we immediately say, “hey I have been wanting you to work on something else today anyways”. We put them on a drill and act like that was our intent. Example. “oh wait why are you vaulting, my bad, I wanted you to do this today”. I can tell you that this approach has changed our balking level drastically. 9 times out of 10 the child returns to that event the next day and is totally fine. Its important to note that if the child balks once but goes the second time we do not react positively! We ignore it, that’s the goal, making it a non issue. At that point they will do maybe 2 more successful turns and call it a day, if they balk again we follow the 2 balk plan. Now lets circle back to “self aware” , what we are doing at the inception is everything to make sure they do not become self aware that they have a problem. In our experience a fear issue can be cemented in one workout, 3rd, 4th 5th turn . So we eliminate that. I will say that the exception could be a flyaway, for which case we can simply get on a block and spot them on a timer a couple of times, then call it a day without asking them to go alone.

Now lets say that child comes back the next day and balks again (twice)… We follow the same plan. If it happens again then we send them to a drill and absolutely take time off of the skill (or if it’s a flyaway we spot them on timers) . Depends on the child, could be a week or a month or..... This gives them a break and makes it look like we really don’t care which … drum roll…. Reduces the anxiety on the gymnasts end. The parents have to be totally on board as well, which is very difficult. Particularly since they happen oh…. The week prior to that first meet! In which case we are absolutely not doing that event at the meet. Time is your enemy or your friend people.


We try to educate the parents to about Anxiety and fear issues and ask them to stay out of gym for these reasons. They are allowed to drop in at any time but not all the time. One or two workouts a month are plenty. We also educate the parents about pressure.

Which means.

Staying out of the coaching aspect of the sport.

Don’t show disproval over performance. (you don’t have to lie, just keep it simple, “keep working at it you will get it” )

Please let us know if anything at home is bad (this is super important).

Please let us know if you DD does not want to get out of the car, feels sick when it’s gym time etc….

Please trust us when we keep your child in a level because they are not ready. (this is hard because not every gym is the same, but a track record exists online for anyone to look at it up, mymeetscores).

Please trust us when we put your kid in a certain group. (obviously this is different from gym to gym but we are talking about my gym).


Okay okay, so your kid already has fear issues, what to do? Eliminate all anxiety by ignoring it. Treat it like an injury because it is. It’s an injury of the mind. Time and patience are your only friends. Don’t do privates. Leave it be.

If we do all this does that mean we won't have fear issues? no but you will have WAY less,
Hope this helps just one person out there.

Next subject will be "Losing Interest", or more importantly keeping them interested.

 

[Faith]

It is a fine balance of many many things.

It has been, and still is, a nightmare journey and quite often i wish we hadn’t started it.

It is also a lot of politics. Being in the right club, impressing the right person at the right time, having a coach/body type/other randon thing that selectors like.

I wish talent, hard work and results got you the acknowledgement and rewards of great coaches wanting to coach you, selection for national squads etc, but in my experience coaches only coach who they want to, and selectors pick their favourites.

 

[profmom]

Coach P, that balking strategy is one of the most brilliant things I have ever seen posted here.

 

[amiandjim]

Totally agree Profmom!

 

[John]

@coachp thank you so much. So much information to consume and digest. I can't wait for the next installment.

 

[sce]

I wish more gyms had a similar balking strategy. So great to keep the kid from dwelling on it. One thing you missed on the cause of fear issues is a bad fall or mishap. It could be a skill the kid has done a lot abs the crash is just a fluke but now there is fear. Thus requires retaining their brain to not think of/expect the crash again. Your strategy would really help there too.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Coachp can’t wait for your next installment. I wish you coached in NY

 

[mommyof1]

We talk to the parents and ask that they ignore it and let us work it out.

****

We learn from our mistakes, implement change and educate coaches and parents.

****

We try to educate the parents to about Anxiety and fear issues and ask them to stay out of gym for these reasons. They are allowed to drop in at any time but not all the time. One or two workouts a month are plenty. We also educate the parents about pressure.

****

Please let us know if anything at home is bad (this is super important).

Please let us know if you DD does not want to get out of the car, feels sick when it’s gym time etc….

Notice how much coach-parent communication is happening in this system? Just saying...

 

[John]

This is the type of information I was hoping to gain from this thread. I hope there is more education to come. The next question will be how do we foster the things learned and get them adopted into the USAG and our individual gyms?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Notice how much coach-parent communication is happening in this system? Just saying...

Notice how much is about parents backing off and staying out of the gummies gymnastics. Just saying