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What is the purpose of the level three vault?

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Geoffrey Taucer

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The primary things a gymnast needs to learn in order to become a good vaulter are:
-Hitting the springboard with the chest up
-Driving the heels
-Extending the shoulders for a good block

The level 3 dive roll vault is, in my opinion, an extremely effective way of teaching kids to:
-Drop the chest forward on the springboard
-Pike and make no attempt to drive the heels
-Break the shoulder angle and avoid blocking

Is there some hidden reasoning behind this vault that I'm not seeing, or is it genuinly a completely idiotic vault?
 

CoachL

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Apr 9, 2007
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alot of the progression in the USAG lvl 1-3 program make no sense. The level 1 and 2 bars stuff makes me scratch my head.
 
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hammy

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Personally--I believe the level 3 vault is a regression. You're absoultely right GT, and for that reason I really try to work on drills for the level 4 vault with my level 3s then practice the level 3 vault a day or two before a meet (if they're competing) or every once in a while if they're just "passing through the levels." USAG is slowly getting better about creating routines that are progressive--which is a good sign.
 
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gracefulone

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Yes it is fairly pointless. The other thing I don't get is the floor routine where there's a round-off and then a run back. Isn't a controlled stuck round-off a little more important?
 

Geoffrey Taucer

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Yes it is fairly pointless. The other thing I don't get is the floor routine where there's a round-off and then a run back. Isn't a controlled stuck round-off a little more important?
This I will disagree with; if you do a roundoff correctly, you should have too much power for a controlled stick.

In fact, I dislike the level 3 bars routine for a similar reason: cast, back hip circle, stop in support. If you do a correct cast followed by a correct back hip circle, there is no way it's going to just stop in support.
 

CoachLin

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Jun 29, 2007
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Just wondering about how the USAG level system works...in Ontario our level 3's vault handspring flatback,and they start this at level 2...when they progress to level 4 it's a regular front handspring vault....how do you start from level 2 up to 4 in USAG? I read about the dive roll vault for level 3....I'm just curious as I have never read/seen requirements before.
 

bogwoppit

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The Us system has a

forward roll onto a mat block using a spring board at level 3

fhs onto mat block at level 4

fhs vault for level 5 & 6 & usually 7

I am in quebec we have just begun

fhs onto mat block for P1

FHS on vault for P2

In our school system we have

FHS onto mat block for CR3 (P1)

FHS over vault onto mat stack (20cm's higher) CR3 Avancee - over grade 5 only.

Fhs over vault CR3 Specialiste - High school only


It also appears that in the US that vault table height can be adjusted by the coach. Here in Quebec all girls have to use the same board, no spring changes allowed (even if you weigh 50 pounds or 150 pounds!!!)

I also do not get the value of the USAG level 3 vault, but than I also do not see the point of competitng before level 5, as the level 4 bar routine is horrible top watch even when done well, it just doesn't flow or make sense.
 
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hammy

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GT--I agree with you on the r/o run out part--it's important that kids learn how to have a powerful r/o. As far as the cast back hip circle--I kind of go both ways. The kids should be able to swing properly and have power out of their back hip circle. However, I also believe that it is important for kids to be able to control their skills, and having them stop on top (in support) is one way to help the kids learn control; instead of learning how to swing around the bar without being able to stop.
 
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BlairBob

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Yep, I dislike a lot of the level 3 and 4 vaulting in the WAG in the US. Not that all gyms work the level 3 vault before 4, but I see the same errors in both. While the coaches can yell their heads off about not leaning off the board, it happens all the time in 4 and really slows their progress into level 5.

Ever do the forward roll out of a straight jump onto stacked mats drill? Basically stack the mats shoulder height or higher.

We do the jump from a block to mini tramp handstand flatback a lot at lower levels. The difference between a flatback and a roll out isn't much if they hit handstand.

On tumbl-trak I like to drill knee drop, heel drive to handstand; keeping the chest up, arms covering ears. I don't let them cheat by jumping forward to the knee drop. At first they get to do it roll out but eventually I have them flatback it, even if they bounce off the trak towards the ceiling in a candle position.

I can understand the level 1 and 2 vault. Heck, I can even understand the roll out vault as a progression beyond a squat-on. However, both take a lot of drilling and there is a lot of leaning off the board with both these vaults.
 

zeng13

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Jul 31, 2007
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I coach the level 3's and i agree with the r/o run back. I think its a great idea to get the child to learn powerful backwards motion out to help create a longer faster backhandspring.

The vault is ridiculous I just teach a handstand flat back b/c I dont want my gymnasts diving into a mat. I want them to learn to stand up on the bpard. They also find it much easier to to the handstand rather than the dive roll.

Does any other level 3 coachs have any tips about teaching the bar dismount. My gymnasts have the hardest tiem with that!!!!
 

Valentin

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Nov 12, 2007
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Hello

I for one think that dive roll is probably the best! progression for young gymnasts for the handspring. The problem is that the drive roll is taught wrong in the first place, and actually a lot of the fault is that gymnasts take the meaning 'dive' wayyyy to literaly and throw themselves forward.
Also a problem is that L4 vault is to low. It should be the same height as the table vault that they will need to vault over. Most gymnasts as just to tall for a 36-38in mat to vault on.. But this can be compensated for if they can do a proper diveroll

There is a considerable difference between dive roll for floor and vault. On floor its nice to see a nice high long dive roll, but for vault the purpose of the dive roll is to:
1- Teach take-off that takes off as vertical as possibe that is why the progession before hand should a AWESOME! straight jump onto 60cm at least.
2- Heel drive...you can teach the gymnat this action correctly of the board with the added safety that the gymnast doesn't have to try and flip it like a layout. Its just safer and easier, but for any gymnast move onto teaching them a layout as fast as you can (safely, and as they are ready to move on).
3- Arm action. Underam is best in my opinion. The dive roll should have a underarm action with the arm going no higher then forehead height.
To really teach the gymnast a nice dive roll you have to really make them do it over something that is their head height at least (with them standing on the board). But you need to be carefull to make sure that the other side is soft and safe, and be ready to spot it. Because i can almost guarantee you that they will not have the heal drive, and will try and lean over it, and forget to heel drive at all...but here is where you have to coach it, and get craetive to understand. If you ahve a pit that can work

A good idea is to also try and get them diveroll (to stop in a handstand) onto aa surface above head hight so that they are trying to take of as vertical as possible while heel driving upto handstand.Until they have the power and speed to actualy be able to execute the form its silly to expect them to do it. That is why i like using trampolines (mini ones) or reallllly springy springboards, or tumble track to make up for the their weakness in the legs.

But in short if the dive roll is taught right with the purpose of teach it a progression to the layout, and as handspring vault then it will work much much better, and you will soon see its benefit.
The boys program in NZ has it right in my opinion, and i think the US has a similar progression.
1- Straight Jump on 30cm (which i think is to low, but for little guys its ok, but it should be 60cm if you ask me)
2- Dive roll (as i said with purpose being height, rotation, not length (but in NZ they sepup the mats of weird and it turn into length...so guess the idea is right but the teaching and execution is poor
3- Front tuck
4- Layout
5- Handspring.
 
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Geoffrey Taucer

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I think the prep op program in NC has a good progression:

Rookie: Handstand flatback onto a mat
Novice: Handstand/handspring flatback over a table onto a mat at table height
Prep 1, etc: Handspring vault
 
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BlairBob

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Perhaps calling a dive roll, a hecht roll is better idea than just diving out.

Maybe I think, it's good to learn a good stomach drop, porpoise and ball out on tramp to learn the heel drive without leaning forward.
 

Valentin

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Nov 12, 2007
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BlairBob good call about the stomach drop and ball out. Hard skills to teach to little kids though. I mean i am not a tramp coach so i might be missing something
but i would image it is. Can anyone confirm or reject this?
 
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BlairBob

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQVWmRfsjok&feature=related look at 20 seconds in

I really should go find that list. I had it made before my car wreck and all the craziness that has been the last 2 months. I'll make it tonight and send it to you on D&S.

What looks to be a promo of Dan Millman's trampoline series.

http://www.youtube.com/user/byp417

At 3:40 of the basics is what I'm talking about stomach drop, ball out.

Yeah, you would have to really shape and spend some time on the tramp. Hard to do when there is so much to be done. Worth the time IMO, unfortunately I've only scheduled about 20m a week on tramp for my boy's.
 
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