amazingly perfect back layouts

[twisting007bigflip]

how do you guys get your kids to set and hollow or straight through the whole skill?

my biggest issue is that 9 out 10 and sometime 10 out of ten kids are throwing their head back and arching over. These are'nt totally ugly, scary, layouts, but they're archy...kind of tight archy.

If I move them to the trampoline, they seem to get it better - with a hollow set and a hip lift for a better shape throughout. But as soon as we take it to the rod floor, it's right back to throwing the head back and rotating over the shoulders. I can't stand it - huge pet peeve, but I just can't seem to get them to fix it. I'm starting to suspect that it might be their position on the takeoff out of the back handspring? I just don't know.

So far, I have them holding hollow shapes until the cows come home. I also have them work roundoff back handspring hollow set to land on their back in a hollow hold on a stack of mats. We don't have a pit, but can work layouts on the trampoline. But, as soon as we go to do them on rod floor, it's right back to arching.

Anybody have some good ideas? I'm up for any and all kinds of drills, advice, questions, answers, anything. I'm pretty much begging

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes. stack mats up...like a 36 inch resi or 4 -8 inch mats and have them tumble up on to the 'hill'. they can 'sense' that what is behind them is higher. they won't arch, whip or throw their heads back for 'fear' of hitting their heads/face on the mat. rest assured...they won't. you will see their bodies begin to conform/comply with what you are looking for each time you add another mat.

 

[gymcoach34]

^^yup-tumbling up is great! also, look to see how high they are bringing their arms up on the set-most kids do better stopping the lift when hands are by the eyebrows, you kids might be bringing their arms up too high on the set. Also look at the block after their snap of their bhs. If their feet are in front (like they are going to do another bhs) the layout will be archy, low & long (like a whip).
I also teach my beginner layout kids not to bring their arms down, but to rather lift their hips/thighs up to their arms. We spend a lot of time on this. The arms coming down I teach later, when they have the technique and can handle speeding up the layout.

I also found a bunch of great drills on you tube and the gymnastics minute. There is a great one that the kids start standing on a resi, facing the tramp. they jump down, hit the tramp and then do a set & candle to their back up to the resi w/ a cheese set up on the resi.

I do this ^^^ drill a lot, and its great! We dont have a lot of tramp access bc of classes so I modified it to a snap down off a big block to a mini tramp before they do the candle. I also have my kids do a lot of "sets" and straight jumps, both w/ the above drill and when they tumble up. Most kids are fearful of flipping up when they are not used to it... get ready to spot them. (I would start w/ sets to land on their feet, then a back tuck, then move to the layout.)

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Dunno,
so, you think maybe nix the trampoline and just go to stacked mats? Seems like I've been having them go to stacked mats forever...it's the transition from mats to no mats that isn't working. Maybe I should just take a few weeks and use only layout drills and nothing else. Do you think my mistake is that I'm setting up these layout drills as a side station during floor? Perhaps I should just take the time to only work layouts by themselves?

 

[twisting007bigflip]

also, look to see how high they are bringing their arms up on the set-most kids do better stopping the lift when hands are by the eyebrows, you kids might be bringing their arms up too high on the set. Also look at the block after their snap of their bhs. If their feet are in front (like they are going to do another bhs) the layout will be archy, low & long (like a whip).
I also teach my beginner layout kids not to bring their arms down, but to rather lift their hips/thighs up to their arms. We spend a lot of time on this. The arms coming down I teach later, when they have the technique and can handle speeding up the layout.

I also found a bunch of great drills on you tube and the gymnastics minute. There is a great one that the kids start standing on a resi, facing the tramp. they jump down, hit the tramp and then do a set & candle to their back up to the resi w/ a cheese set up on the resi.

I do this ^^^ drill a lot, and its great! We dont have a lot of tramp access bc of classes so I modified it to a snap down off a big block to a mini tramp before they do the candle. I also have my kids do a lot of "sets" and straight jumps, both w/ the above drill and when they tumble up. Most kids are fearful of flipping up when they are not used to it... get ready to spot them. (I would start w/ sets to land on their feet, then a back tuck, then move to the layout.)

Gymcoach34.....
Bringing arms up too high on the set? I have always taught arms straight up in line with the ears on everything - including the set for a layout. Is this wrong? Because if they are only bringing their arms up to their eyebrows, how can they get the highest set for their body?

I have searched youtube far and wide. The only good layout drill that I can find is the one that you describe with the stacked mats and a cheese, bounce from mini tramp or tumble trak for the hip lift. I use this drill lots. I looked everywhere on the gymnasticminute's youtube and cannot find anything.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes, nix the trampoline for now. sounds like they're stuck. maybe they're doing too many things/drills and it's not setting in. stick to the stack mats for a couple of weeks. and maybe stack a little higher than i stated and see if they can layout without touching their feet and land in a hollow on their back to a safety roll.

 

[gymdog]

Gymcoach34.....
Bringing arms up too high on the set? I have always taught arms straight up in line with the ears on everything - including the set for a layout. Is this wrong? Because if they are only bringing their arms up to their eyebrows, how can they get the highest set for their body?

I have searched youtube far and wide. The only good layout drill that I can find is the one that you describe with the stacked mats and a cheese, bounce from mini tramp or tumble trak for the hip lift. I use this drill lots. I looked everywhere on the gymnasticminute's youtube and cannot find anything.

Put something small like a coin on top of your hand and hold your arms in front of you palm side down. Then throw your arms up to your ears...the coin flies backward and downward...then do the same thing and stop your arms earlier...the trajectory will be different, more upwards.

I also teach layouts with no arm pull initially. I instruct the kids that their body should just rotate around the shoulders after the set and the arms just kind of stay near shoulder height.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Put something small like a coin on top of your hand and hold your arms in front of you palm side down. Then throw your arms up to your ears...the coin flies backward and downward...then do the same thing and stop your arms earlier...the trajectory will be different, more upwards.

I also teach layouts with no arm pull initially. I instruct the kids that their body should just rotate around the shoulders after the set and the arms just kind of stay near shoulder height.

Ok....I completely understand this concept. But, is there no way to achieve a perfect layout if I'm having them set with their arms up instead of more forward? Everyone at our gym is teaching to stretch the back handspring and set with arms up. Will the stretched bhs not initiate a more forward/upward takeoff before the somersault?

 

[gymdog]

Ok....I completely understand this concept. But, is there no way to achieve a perfect layout if I'm having them set with their arms up instead of more forward? Everyone at our gym is teaching to stretch the back handspring and set with arms up. Will the stretched bhs not initiate a more forward/upward takeoff before the somersault?

In my experience, depends on the athlete. Here's Neil Resnick explaining it "It's how fast the arms stop." YouTube - Tumbling Drills

*I also use that jump forward to back drill frequently. Here's another video of Neil explaining it: YouTube - Layout Drill

 

[Valentin]

What i have found effective for me is
1- spotting it on the tramp, where i have the kids bounce (arms over head) and they focus on pushing the hips up on the take-off (as explained in the second video ^^^) followed very quickly by the chest rounding and the shins and toes kicking up to a candle. (my hands in in their neck and the further arm on the back of the legs).... very coach intensive but wellll worth the time
2- I use "look at your belly button" as the visual que in order to stop them from throwing the head back. It works wonders! especially after you drill it in with the candle stick drill. Of course this is also used any other jump to candle stick drill.
3-I do lots of SBHS to jump up and forward (like video 1 + 2) to get them to understand the take-off, hip lift, etc..

That being said that is basically all i do, have needed to do..along with of course hand spotting on floor, lots of tumble track work to just drill in numbers.

 

[gymdog]

SBHS to jump up and forward

Oooh. An intriguing twist - thanks!